400/450 stroker....Cheap parts, lotta work.

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So the shop smells like alfalfa but we have the answer............our deodorant.............

Engine assembly 005.JPG



Which is used extensively..........behind two sets of closed doors separating the main shop from the assembly room.
Engine assembly 003.JPG
 
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PRH said:
I’ve never seen the bushing tools before.
That is for the tutorial:thumbsup:
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I just run a 1/2-13 tap in it and drive it out from the oil pump face with a long ejection pin (holdover from my die casting days). J.Rob
 
I'm happy with the work performed by Performance Machine. They decked, bored, honed the block and ground the crank for me. The mains didn't move the dial indicator while checking to see if the crank was straight. I used the same rod and piston to check all the throws on the crank and ended up with deck heights...........

#1) .015"--------#2) .015"
#3) .017"--------#4) .016 #3) Probably me with a minor error, old guys can do that. Edit...it is .016. Found that when I checked #3 TDC, 0 degree difference from #1
#5) .016"--------#6) .0155
#7) .016"--------#8) .016
With my crude instruments (some things built by my Dad in the 1960's) I used the positive stop to set the degree wheel to #1 TDC and checked #6 & #8 and got 1/3 & 1/2 degree difference from #1. Well within my margin of measurement error. I can now cut the quench pads to my desired height and send everything off to be balanced.

400-450 crank measurements 006.JPG
400-450 crank measurements 008.JPG
 
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Is that Performance Machine Racing in Idaho Falls that did the machine work.
 
I don't have the super cool equipment to machine the quench pads so we must improvise. I will cut one pad .006" taller to make up for the shorter 6.351" rod. This means we are looking at 10.2:1 compression.

400-450 Q pads 002.JPG
 
I buolt a 440 short block with the open chamber quench dome KBs in the late 90s. It’s still on the stand. After all the blueprinting and matching to get all the pistons in the same spot in the block, I lost all interest in doing a set of heads to make them work properly. It’s still sitting on that stand.
I’m glad to see you doing it and communicating how much effort is reauired, because thatceffort would only be of value to you with your donated time. Otherwise the cheaper piston and iron head route includes thousands of extra machining and blueprinting costs- costs beyond the usual blueprinting... lol
Cant wait to see the result
 
Here are some photos of the various parts we are using to machine the quench pads.

1" square aluminum bar that we cut an 1/8" deep flat area 9" long to just slip down over table.......
400-450 Q pads 002.JPG



Then we cut to small areas on the other side that the ends of the piston skirts would be set on......
400-450 Q pads 003.JPG



We used a 3/4" diameter cold rolled round bar that just slipped into one of the used stock pins and machined two flats, one on each end to clamp to.
400-450 Q pads 005.JPG


The dial indicator looks as if it is riding on the quench pad in the photo but it is really on the piston deck behind the pad. We had to tighten and loosen the clamping nuts until the dial indicator would slide across the piston top parallel to the pin and not leave zero. Care must be taken so the clamping force isn't so much it distorts the piston skirt. I found that no adjustment was necessary to level the piston perpendicular to the pin.
400-450 Q pads 008.JPG
 
Sweet success!

The goal was to have the quench pad protrude .110" above the block surface because the flats in the cylinder head are all machined .110" deep. This would give a piston to head clearance of whatever cylinder head gasket thickness we select. This one measured .109" above the block deck. It looks as if it may be more than .109" but for a visual reference the head locating dowel is .250" in diameter.

400-450 Q pads 009.JPG
 
moper said:
I buolt a 440 short block with the open chamber quench dome KBs in the late 90s. It’s still on the stand. After all the blueprinting and matching to get all the pistons in the same spot in the block, I lost all interest in doing a set of heads to make them work properly. It’s still sitting on that stand.
I’m glad to see you doing it and communicating how much effort is reauired, because thatceffort would only be of value to you with your donated time. Otherwise the cheaper piston and iron head route includes thousands of extra machining and blueprinting costs- costs beyond the usual blueprinting... lol
Cant wait to see the result
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Yes, when Cody and I started this project we knew we would drown in labor. But we kinda enjoy the tinkering.
 
Post #62 is exactly what I did with a 440 build about 16 yrs ago.
 
I’m doing it now with a 408. Would you recommend it for a truck motor? Or should I not make it so tight with those pistons? Don’t want to hijack, I can pm you if you prefer. Thanks
 
IQ52 said:
Sweet success!

The goal was to have the quench pad protrude .110" above the block surface because the flats in the cylinder head are all machined .110" deep. This would give a piston to head clearance of whatever cylinder head gasket thickness we select. This one measured .109" above the block deck. It looks as if it may be more than .109" but for a visual reference the head locating dowel is .250" in diameter.

View attachment 1715696125
Click to expand...

Very cool, Jim! Thank you for sharing all this!
 
Dana said:
I’m doing it now with a 408. Would you recommend it for a truck motor? Or should I not make it so tight with those pistons? Don’t want to hijack, I can pm you if you prefer. Thanks
Click to expand...
Don't see a hijack. I believe I'm doing it correctly for how these pistons were designed to be used. I don't understand where you think it may be 'tight' for a truck engine.
 
I’m not questioning your build in the least. I’ve just been advised not to push the compression envelope in a towing motor. So I have second guessed my build, also taking into account that the KB’s aren’t the toughest piston out there.
 
IQ52 said:
Don't see a hijack. I believe I'm doing it correctly for how these pistons were designed to be used. I don't understand where you think it may be 'tight' for a truck engine.
Click to expand...

Yeah it even says in the piston's description on the United Engine site that the quench dome WILL NEED to be milled accordingly.
 
Dana said:
I’m not questioning your build in the least. I’ve just been advised not to push the compression envelope in a towing motor. So I have second guessed my build, also taking into account that the KB’s aren’t the toughest piston out there.
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Oh I didn't feel you were being critical of my build at all and took no offense what-so-ever. Be at peace.

KB pistons may not be the toughest ones out there but even their website says you can run, uh, what, a 200 shot(?) of nitrous? We're not going the nitrous route! We'll run the proper ring gaps and use care with timing as we wring this engine out.

I just didn't know what 'tight' was to you. You're asking about compression. My 10.2:1, will it run in a truck application?

Don't know. I don't design engines for other people anymore. I just report on what I'm building for myself and how it turns out. Never having run this type of build before I'm taking no one's word on what it is correct or incorrect and we're just going to see what happens.

How much detonation resistance under load will this build have? I don't know. But the "Shadow Knows", er, dyno knows.

I've never built an engine for quench or ever cared about quench. We may have to pull the engine down while on the dyno and open the combustion chambers up around the valves to lower compression. Maybe install a thicker head gasket than the .039" one planned, which will lower the compression and cause less squish or quench or whatever the big boys call it.

Don't care what anyone says anymore because I was once told I couldn't make over 600 HP on pump gas with my Edelbrock RPM heads.......until the day we made 723 HP and 787 HP a month after that.

My boy and I are just having fun and we'll report on what we find out.
 
Thank you, those are many of the thoughts that I have been having and I will be following closely. I appreciate you gentlemen letting us follow along. Nice work!
 
Any con-rod you install in your engine must be prepped. I don't mean just wash it, I mean prep it. Factory, rebuilt, or new aftermarket must be prepped. One exception I've found was a set of new Molnar rods that had already been prepped.

You need to separate the cap from the rod and lightly file all the connecting machined surfaces. The edges where the bearing surface and the cap and rod meet have a sharp edge that could strip some of the metal bearing back off when you push the bearing into the cap or rod.

400-450 rod prep 002.JPG


This picture shows the small triangular file I use to do the operation. I'm not putting a bevel on the rod/cap just gently rounding the mating surface all around the ends of the cap and rod to remove any small chips that may get into the engine. Additionally, more often than not, the register that the bearing tang rides in will have a sliver of proud metal inside the register. Often I cannot easily get the file to remove that sliver and I have to rely on my trusty Buck pocketknife to cut it out.
400-450 rod prep 007.JPG


I also lightly sand, using flat surface with 280 grit, the sides of the caps and rods looking for any proud edges that may interfere with the side clearance or mess with the adjacent rod or the crank. I'm not sanding them smooth, just looking for high areas that may need attention.
400-450 rod prep 009.JPG


I even lightly sand the corners of the cap and rods when possible to get them a little smoother for bearing installation
400-450 rod prep 008.JPG

Now we wash everything up and install the bearing into the rods and measure the rod bearing clearances.
 
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