Hey guys been looking at these threads for a while need some advice. I have a Dakota r/t with a 408 short block building now -23 dish piston need advice on a cam and heads , currently have pie magnum EQs level 1 and huges air gap fi intake cam now is comp 5.28-5.36ex and 2.18- 2.24 on a 114lsa mid length headers 1 3/4 4.10 gears and stock 46re trans/convert. Looking for 450-500hp for street driver with a/c what can I do with what I have??
5.9 build
- Thread starter pat d
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Bobzilla
Well-Known Member
Are your heads the older better Australian or New Zealand castings or the current Chinese castings? It will likely make a difference in power potential. If you are not sure how to tell the difference just post a picture of either end of one of your heads.
Have you run the heads? I’m actually contemplating a set of PIE Stage 1’s and Utawesome kegger mods for my 1998 Grand Cherokee.
The new EQ’s have a lot of improvements like a thicker deck and cooling passages, both of which reduce cracking.
The new EQ’s have a lot of improvements like a thicker deck and cooling passages, both of which reduce cracking.
Not sure on the heads truck is in shop getting other work done they have freeze plugs on end if I remember they look real good out of box. go for stage 2 if you going to buy new I got cheap and now I’m in this situation, was going for Hemi swap .
Bobzilla
Well-Known Member
Those are definitely the currently available version cast in China. They do not flow quite as good as the older version, but they should still be a good solid foundation for your build. I will be following along to see how this build progresses, hoping you keep us updated.
Add a 100 shot of GAS, no ring gap worry at that level , $500 gives 100 HP, and a full second in the 1/4 !!
Best bang for the $
Trick Flows are off the shelf proven 500 hp plus heads with reasonable cam and cr, Edelbrocks can probably get there with enough cam but more than likely be under 500 hp unless ported, ported Aluminum speed masters are another option.
Could get yours ported, 500 hp probably a stretch without a lot of cam.
From what I've notice you need around 1.8 cfm per hp with reasonable cam and cr making it 250-280 cfm to make 450-500 hp with like around 10:1 & 240° ish cam.
Could get yours ported, 500 hp probably a stretch without a lot of cam.
From what I've notice you need around 1.8 cfm per hp with reasonable cam and cr making it 250-280 cfm to make 450-500 hp with like around 10:1 & 240° ish cam.
Dan the man
Well-Known Member
These guys hers have a lot of knowledge and experience. I believe that they will be able to help you out. I'm not allowed to commit.
You Need to commit actually.
Nothing really. Your heads suck and being governed by the computer even if reflashed in a not going to get you there.
Honesty? You got it.
What to do honestly?
Hit the EZ button and get a super charger.
Add 1-3/4 headers if you don’t have them and fab up a good exhaust.
Trickflow heads would be a worthy upgrade.
The Performance Injection ported EQ's are damn good heads for a REPLACEMENT for stock. From what I've seen shopping for my top end rebuild on my 5.9 Grand Cherokee is Stage 1 for a stock REPLACEMENT with your normal upgrades (cold air intake and exhaust/headers) and no reflash of the ECU needed. I have a Mopar Performance flashed ECU in my Jeep and would like to stay with that tune so no cam upgrade. Later when the bottom end needs rebuilt I will do a modest cam and see whether it'll needs new tune then.
PIE Stage 2 ported EQ you would need better intake and throttlebody and a reflashed ECU for certain but this is still in the STOCK REPLACEMENT area. Of course the Stage 1 normal upgrades like cold air intake and exhaust. But really, we're not talking about 500 hp Hot Street builds here. The Stage 2 heads and all the other stuff is simply the best you could do with stock equipment. Look at UTawesome's site and the Hughes Dyno numbers for their Magnum Air Gap. Those dynoed engines mostly use a stock head with the exception of one of Hurghes' dyno engines having Edelbrock's which are slightly better than Stage 1 PIE EQ's.
TO get to 500 let's just cut to the chase. You have the wrong equipment. It doesn't suck. It's just that you will need the cfm of Trick Flow 190's and a single plane with long runners. You could go with a number of the billet Magnum fuel rails and use a Victor EFI and a 52mm throttlebody from UTawesome. You would 1000% need an SCT tuner and, depending on your tuning abilities, pay someone to lay out a tune for you. UTawesome can do the remote tune but you still have to have the SCT tuner.
Rob brings up an excellent point about a supercharger. PIE is a Procharger dealer. I have a D1 on a 408 and Hughes stage 2 Edelbrocks and it is/was a beast like no other. You could add a Procharger to your set up right now and with tuning you would have a forced induction engine with a tame-ish cam having linear power and getting up to where your knocking on 500 hp's door. Maybe change out the Hughes intake with the Victor EFI and 52mm UTawesome TB.
Good morning guys thanks for advice. I was trying to avoid mission creep when I bought the heads , no Eddies were available I have the headers and a tune by flyin Ryan personally hate this tune thing any changes oh need a tune for that !! Probably going to sell the heads and intake and start over.
Bobzilla
Well-Known Member
Don't be too quick to start over. You would have a really nice running setup with most of the parts you have and with really good street manners. Then adding a supercharger as rumblefish360 suggested would get the end result you want while keeping that good drivability. Factor in the costs of starting over and it will probably be close to a supercharger, but will be giving up some of the good street manners the supercharger would retain.
Watch the engine masters dyno about the Utawesome kegger stuff. Lots of money for little result.
Yup you can see the bigger valve and a small chamber relief cut. As long as they sized the bowls coreectly for the bigger valve just run what you have. Probably arent going to hit 500hp, but will at least be within spitting distance of 450 with your stroker.
thanks guys my current setup is stock 5.9 bottom 1 3/4 mid length headers eq heads level 1 porting 2.02-1.62 valves air gap fi manifold by Hughes 52 mm throttle body cam is comp 5.28-536 224-236on114 Lisa with 1.7 rockers non adjustable think I’m going with level 2 eq’s and sell my level 1 I checked out eddies and trickflow need “ special “ rockers for them and I’m getting about the same flow #s thinking about that victor FI manifold with magnum bolt pattern only problem is water neck still have the transmission to hit up on next
I am going to buy the Kegger Flow Package and do the work myself when I change my plenum gasket.
I’m doing cold air intake, headers, 52mm throttle body, Kegger package, and stage 1 PIE EQ’s. The ECU is already flashed and with these bolt-on’s I may not need a new tune. Heads are pooped and I’m simply using their replacement as a chance to make it a little better.
The Jeep is shared with my daughter and it gets decent mileage. I would like to increase that rather than decrease it.
Here’s a 10.3:1 408 Magnum with a small 220/[email protected]” cam and the same Stage 1 heads and Kegger flow package.
367 hp/ 411 tq. What would Stage 2 and the Hughes intake get you? Could definitely do better on the cam.
Look at 2:00 in
367 hp/ 411 tq. What would Stage 2 and the Hughes intake get you? Could definitely do better on the cam.
Look at 2:00 in
IIRC, the cylinder heads are the issue to the power production of that engine on engine masters.
IMO, there were several problem in making more power but the crew did what they did.
Is this at the wheel ?
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