62 Valiant 200 / 170 cuin /6 - Odd smell - then dead battery

[gsoco]

Need some ideas...First, I have new battery, new voltage regulator, car runs great, after battery dies it charges fine... So here's the situation...All happy driving and then I smell this very acrid odor - don't think electrical, but kind of like burning rubber...then when I try and restarrt the engine I find the battery is drained...I hook up a charger, it takes a charge quickly and it starts right up...Have 12 volts out of the alternator and about 10 from the voltage regulator. I have converted ammeter to voltmeter and get 11-12 volts when running...Oh yeah...another odd thing my right side blinker fails intermittently...Any ideas? TIA...

 

[circlepilot]

Just a stab in the dark, check the alternator belt, tension, (rubber smell) and check condition of the alternator pulley (loosen the belt) for free movement. the alternator could be seizing up a little when reaching operating temperature of the engine and the alternator itself.
Norm
Oh! And the turn signal, check the connector itself for a loose wire and corrosion in the lamp receptacle.

 

[gsoco]

Just a stab in the dark, check the alternator belt, tension, (rubber smell) and check condition of the alternator pulley (loosen the belt) for free movement. the alternator could be seizing up a little when reaching operating temperature of the engine and the alternator itself.
Norm
Oh! And the turn signal, check the connector itself for a loose wire and corrosion in the lamp receptacle.

OK. Thanks!

 

[gsoco]

Just a stab in the dark, check the alternator belt, tension, (rubber smell) and check condition of the alternator pulley (loosen the belt) for free movement. the alternator could be seizing up a little when reaching operating temperature of the engine and the alternator itself.
Norm
Oh! And the turn signal, check the connector itself for a loose wire and corrosion in the lamp receptacle.

All fixed...blinker was a abd ground, charging was defective new voltage regulator...thanks for help.

 

[Bewy]

Sounds like alt or reg. A fully charged battery is 12.6-7 v. Your alt needs to output higher than this to charge the battery....& keep it charged. So alt output, engine running, should be between 12.6 & 14v.

 

[gsoco]

Right - new alternator, new voltage reg...new battery...new thermister runs great - just won't charge - never gets more than 12.6 from alternator...Someone said the alternator isn't getting excited?

 

[gsoco]

Just a stab in the dark, check the alternator belt, tension, (rubber smell) and check condition of the alternator pulley (loosen the belt) for free movement. the alternator could be seizing up a little when reaching operating temperature of the engine and the alternator itself.
Norm
Oh! And the turn signal, check the connector itself for a loose wire and corrosion in the lamp receptacle.

HI - new alternator, voltage regulator, thermister...still not charging

 

[Mattax]

I have converted ammeter to voltmeter and get 11-12 volts when running

Without the ammeter, you don't really know if the battery is charging or not.
The voltmeter only indicates the voltage where you have connected it.
(if you've simply replaced the ammeter with the voltmeter, that doesn't work as voltmeters are high resistance devices)

Have 12 volts out of the alternator and about 10 from the voltage regulator.

Compare the volts at the alternator output to the volts at the battery positive.
They ought to be the same whether the engine is running or not.
The voltage regulator output voltage will vary. The voltage at the regulator's input should be nearly the same as the voltage at the alternator's output terminal.
You may find the explanation of how the regulator works helpful. Identifying Chrysler Alternators (1960-1976)

You'll have to tell us if the following diagram matches what you found on your car. (I know 1960 is very different.)
The point is to follow the connections from the battery positive terminal to the main splice.
Everything connected to the main splice should be the same voltage.

When the engine is running, the alternator should be producing power in the range of 14 Volts. Everything connected to the alternator should be close to that voltage.

 

[Mattax]

key in run voltage at these three connections should be the same.

Engine off, it should be battery voltage.
Engine running, they should be alternator's output voltage.

If the alternator and the battery measure 12 Volts, and the J2 connection at the regulator is 10 Volts, then measure voltage at the J2 connections leading back to the key switch. If those are all 10 volts, then measure J1 (power in) at the key switch. Keep going back until you find the drop.
If the engine is running, go back to the alternator. If the key is on but engine is not running, then follow the wires back to the battery.

 

[gsoco]

Gee, thanks for all this...I will check and post a reply. Cheers.

 

[gsoco]

OK. Checked running and just in ignition on. Always getting battery voltage everywhere. If I let it sit or drive... Battery drains...

 

[gsoco]

Could the voltmeter I added be draining the battery?

 

[Charrlie_S]

Couple of questions.
1) what vehicle
2) What style voltage regulator (sort of square with a triangular plug with 2 wires?) or ( rectangular with a spade connector on one end, and a screw connection on the other end?)
3) What alternator ( does it have a large stud, and one spade terminal, or stud and two spade terminals on the back?)
4) How did you bypass the ammeter?

 

[67Dart273]

Could the voltmeter I added be draining the battery?

Does the voltmeter shut off with the key? If not, the answer is yes, voltmeter will drain the battery

WHAT ARE WE WORKING ON?

What wiring changes from stock have you made?

What have you done to check this?

What you need to do is, shut EVERYTHING off, and check trunk/ underhood lamp if present, glove box lamp, everything. Remove battery ground cable. Connect a 12V test lamp in series with the battery. A real lamp bulb, not an LED. Does it light? If not take your multimeter and set it up for maximum current and put that in series from the battery NEG to the ground cable. Be careful, as a multimeter in current mode is a DEAD SHORT when doing this so be methodic and careful about connections. If you do not read anything on the high current (10A or 20A) scale, switch down to lower ranges.

Make sure voltmeter is off or disconnected. Now pull fuses one at a time to see if problem goes away. If not, disconnect alternator output wire--the big one on the stud. Be careful not to short the wire to ground.

 

[gsoco]

Couple of questions.
1) what vehicle
2) What style voltage regulator (sort of square with a triangular plug with 2 wires?) or ( rectangular with a spade connector on one end, and a screw connection on the other end?)
3) What alternator ( does it have a large stud, and one spade terminal, or stud and two spade terminals on the back?)
4) How did you bypass the ammeter?

Couple of questions.
1) what vehicle - 1962 Valiant 200, 170 /6
2) What style voltage regulator - The rectangular with a spade connector on one end, and a screw connection on the other end
3) What alternator - Stud and two spade terminals on the back
4) How did you bypass the ammeter? - Connected the 2 wires (one black and one red - SEE DWG PIC)

 

[Mattax]

3) What alternator - Stud and two spade terminals on the back

That's why its not producing power.
Easy fix. See Identifying Chrysler Alternators (1960-1976)

You must charge the battery with a charger now.
If you don't, the wiring will be subject to at least 30 amps with the engine running running at fast idle.
As this member found out the hard way here, the wiring will be damaged by the high current a nearly dead battery will draw.
He saw this on the ammeter but unfortunately did not recognize what it meant.

 

[gsoco]

Does the voltmeter shut off with the key? YES...If not, the answer is yes, voltmeter will drain the battery

WHAT ARE WE WORKING ON? 1962 VALIANT 200, 170 /6

What wiring changes from stock have you made? ADDED VOLT METER BY USING IGNITION SW POSITION 2 AND GROUND. BYPASSED AMMETER (SPLICED WIRES A-1 AND R6A)

What have you done to check this?

What you need to do is, shut EVERYTHING off, and check trunk/ underhood lamp if present, glove box lamp, everything. Remove battery ground cable. Connect a 12V test lamp in series with the battery. A real lamp bulb, not an LED. Does it light? If not take your multimeter and set it up for maximum current and put that in series from the battery NEG to the ground cable. Be careful, as a multimeter in current mode is a DEAD SHORT when doing this so be methodic and careful about connections. If you do not read anything on the high current (10A or 20A) scale, switch down to lower ranges.

Make sure voltmeter is off or disconnected. Now pull fuses one at a time to see if problem goes away. If not, disconnect alternator output wire--the big one on the stud. Be careful not to short the wire to ground.

 

[gsoco]

That's why its not producing power.
See Identifying Chrysler Alternators (1960-1976)
Easy fix.
However you must charge the battery with a charger now.

If the ammeter was connected you would see it indicate 30 or more amps with the engine running running at fast idle.
As this member found out the hard way here, the wiring will be damaged by the high current a nearly dead battery will draw.
He saw this on the ammeter but unfortunately did not recognize what it meant.

THANKS! BATTERY CHARGING...

 

[gsoco]

SO YOU'RE SAYING I NEED TO GROUND THE BRUSH LIKE THIS? IF SO, I ALREADY DID THIS....

 

[Mattax]

SO YOU'RE SAYING I NEED TO GROUND THE BRUSH LIKE THIS? IF SO, I ALREADY DID THIS....

View attachment 1716088988

Yes. I assumed that was needed because you told charlie it had two brush terminals.
But you've already grounded one. so that's not it.

Checked running .... getting battery voltage everywhere

I also assumed by this^^^^ that the voltage measured with engine running was around 12 Volts.

 

[Charrlie_S]

SO YOU'RE SAYING I NEED TO GROUND THE BRUSH LIKE THIS? IF SO, I ALREADY DID THIS....

View attachment 1716088988

I can't be sure, but it looks like the terminal on the left is not insulated (it should be). Try swapping the wire that is on the right terminal to the left terminal. Still connected to ground. Then connect the wire from the harness to the right terminal. Normally it should not make any difference as to which wire goes to which terminal. But the rebuilder might have screwed up.

 

[Mattax]

If your trying to say the rebuilder grounded one by installing the brush without an insulating washer, that can be checked with an ohm meter.

 

[gsoco]

I can't be sure, but it looks like the terminal on the left is not insulated (it should be). Try swapping the wire that is on the right terminal to the left terminal. Still connected to ground. Then connect the wire from the harness to the right terminal. Normally it should not make any difference as to which wire goes to which terminal. But the rebuilder might have screwed up.

OK. I will. Thanks!

 

[gsoco]

true - 12 volts running

Yes. I assumed that was needed because you told charlie it had two brush terminals.
But you've already grounded one. so that's not it.

I also assumed by this^^^^ that the voltage measured with engine running was around 12 Volts.

 

[Mattax]

Yup. When there is just 12 Volts at the alternator output and the battery with the engine running, then the alternator is not producing power.

You could remove the ground jumper you installed on the brush and then measure resistance from each brush terminal to the alternator housing.
Should be infinate resistance. if not maybe one of the brushes was grounded by using a metal washer.

If its on the car now, I think I would check for voltage at the regulator's power connection (sometimes marked IGN). That should be connected to a blue (J2) wire.
And if the feed is at system voltage, then check the voltage on the regulator's output terminal if that has voltage.
> If there is no voltage, then the fault is likely in the regulator. Points type remove the cover and look for melted links (fine wires)
>>If there is voltage, then check at the field connection on the alternator. This will reveal if there is a break or a short to ground in the wire.
>> One other way to check for regulator problem, which might not be revealed just be voltage, is to bypass the regulator. Best to do this at slow idle. All you need is a jumper wire with aligator clips on each end. When bypassing the regulator, remeber that voltage will increase with rpm. Not a good idea to drive around like this.