67 twin turbo dart

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turbodart68 said:
Thats not good enough. All grounds go to battery. Block heads intake ecu chassis all go to battery. It may not be your problem but i chased an electrical gremlin for a year and it was a bad ground. Its so common for folks to think a ground to the chassis is good enough that there are hundreds of videos on youtube addressing that very problem. Once my grounds were improved so many things i didn’t even know were a problem were fixed.
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Good to know, will figure out a way to tie it into the car to connect to the fuse block that goes to the battery ground directly. I'll get the firewall gromnet to connect the heads and intake to the fuse block ground
 
Matts440 said:
Good to know, will figure out a way to tie it into the car to connect to the fuse block that goes to the battery ground directly. I'll get the firewall gromnet to connect the heads and intake to the fuse block ground
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I put a ground lug in the trunk. Ground the battery there and used 2awg to run all the way up to the block then to the heads and intake. The fuse box and ecu were already direct to battery. The coils were discharging and not getting a good enough ground and so the voltage signal was being crossed over to the crank trigger to ecu wire.
 
Watch "428cid Twin Turbo running a bit" on YouTube


Finally YES. Now the fine tuning, won't idle yet, but will get that figured out, adjusted the idle screw on the TB but didnt change anything, had to turn off the filters, but also switched from use table setting on ignition to set timing at 12*, unless you all think I should go back to the table setting. Thoughts.....suggestions always open to help. It also pops sometimes. Will change up the grounding still to straight battery just wanted to see.
 
Matts440 said:
Watch "428cid Twin Turbo running a bit" on YouTube


Finally YES. Now the fine tuning, won't idle yet, but will get that figured out, adjusted the idle screw on the TB but didnt change anything, had to turn off the filters, but also switched from use table setting on ignition to set timing at 12*, unless you all think I should go back to the table setting. Thoughts.....suggestions always open to help. It also pops sometimes. Will change up the grounding still to straight battery just wanted to see.
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Nice work! What ended up being the problem for it not starting? I think if you have timing locked at 12, that may be too low for a cold engine. Try locking it at 15 or 20, then verify your timing with a light. Then fine tune the offset you already did manually. It may only be a degree or two, but you want it to be right, especially in a turbo application. After you get that set, you can unlock it and let it run on the table. Also, if the TB throttle plate adjustment didn't do anything, maybe you have a vaccuum leak?
Do you have an IAC valve? My TB uses the GM type and I learned the hard way that GM made two different types. One has a brass plunger on it and one with a rubber plunger. The brass punger is smaller and therfore didn't seal off the hole. Thus, a huge vaccum leak! Once I got the one with the rubber plunger, I was able to control idle.
 
racerjoe said:
Nice work! What ended up being the problem for it not starting? I think if you have timing locked at 12, that may be too low for a cold engine. Try locking it at 15 or 20, then verify your timing with a light. Then fine tune the offset you already did manually. It may only be a degree or two, but you want it to be right, especially in a turbo application. After you get that set, you can unlock it and let it run on the table. Also, if the TB throttle plate adjustment didn't do anything, maybe you have a vaccuum leak?
Do you have an IAC valve? My TB uses the GM type and I learned the hard way that GM made two different types. One has a brass plunger on it and one with a rubber plunger. The brass punger is smaller and therfore didn't seal off the hole. Thus, a huge vaccum leak! Once I got the one with the rubber plunger, I was able to control idle.
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Turned out to be the MS3X with noise filter on was filtering out the crank signal, so with that off was able to pick it and fired up. Yeah I'm going to bump up the timing to 18, then maybe it will end up at 20*. And go from there. As far as the TB is a Godspeed 90mm so the throttle stop is on a insert locking with a Alan key in the center, so that was a little loose and just the tps is on it, the intake air sensor is in the elbow. I need to set it and lock tight it in good so it don't move, that's next on the list, and double check all the vacuum lines, all are on barb fittings with zip ties to ensure but you never know.
 
Here is a picture of the adjuster, could have been a better design, might see if I can lock that bigger part to the base plate bolt so it won't move.

20210322_122548.jpg
 
Well after talking with Matt at DIY I pulled the plugs and all were black, which I wasnt surprised since I have 160lb injectors, the wires ohms were 27-29.1 range on all the wires. I did forget to look up the proper gap they are .030 where the LS coils need .040. Would lower resistance wires help out this situation or should I drop the injector size? Picture of plugs and ohm readings are on the picture below. Course its hard to see the rear ones. Figured the not being able to idle was from being to rich, and still acting like misfiring due to unburned fuel.

20210404_110525.jpg
 
Matts440 said:
Well after talking with Matt at DIY I pulled the plugs and all were black, which I wasnt surprised since I have 160lb injectors, the wires ohms were 27-29.1 range on all the wires. I did forget to look up the proper gap they are .030 where the LS coils need .040. Would lower resistance wires help out this situation or should I drop the injector size? Picture of plugs and ohm readings are on the picture below. Course its hard to see the rear ones. Figured the not being able to idle was from being to rich, and still acting like misfiring due to unburned fuel.

View attachment 1715718545
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Try watching your AFR and reduce the numbers in your VE table in the cells where it idles until the AFR hits high 13s, low 14s or till it idles more stable. Not a long term solution but might get you idling at least.
 
subcom said:
Try watching your AFR and reduce the numbers in your VE table in the cells where it idles until the AFR hits high 13s, low 14s or till it idles more stable. Not a long term solution but might get you idling at least.
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Will give that a try. Will be replacing the spark plugs regardless since they are probably fouled by the richness.
 
Well a little update, after email tag with Matt at DIY, I gave him the info he asked for about the injectors and thinks they are the old Ford CNG ones that dont have good control when using the low pulse width. So I found some new Gen 3 Bosch 160lb injectors at a great price. So waiting for those and shall try again, with new spark plugs as well.
 
Bummer the seller cancelled the order on Amazon for the 160lbs so I went with VSRacings 210lb ones flow matched, but more bummer news is they are back ordered :( oh well just have to wait
 
Matts440 said:
Bummer the seller cancelled the order on Amazon for the 160lbs so I went with VSRacings 210lb ones flow matched, but more bummer news is they are back ordered :( oh well just have to wait
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Take a look at the Holley Bosch style injector. I use the 105 lb/hr and I am using 35% at 1k horsepower. They are very drivable. Also I run .020 gap for my MSD LS truck style coils. Otherwise it blows out the spark and misfires.
 
turbodart68 said:
Take a look at the Holley Bosch style injector. I use the 105 lb/hr and I am using 35% at 1k horsepower. They are very drivable. Also I run .020 gap for my MSD LS truck style coils. Otherwise it blows out the spark and misfires.
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What fuel?
 
turbodart68 said:
Take a look at the Holley Bosch style injector. I use the 105 lb/hr and I am using 35% at 1k horsepower. They are very drivable. Also I run .020 gap for my MSD LS truck style coils. Otherwise it blows out the spark and misfires.
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Good to know on the gap, when I order the new plugs here soon, will gap them to that, think they come at .030. I was thinking of going smaller on the injectors but just kept the bigger size, just the old style I have can't be ran at low pulse widths which could have been the issue MadDart had on the dyno when he had the car still.
 
Matts440 said:
Good to know on the gap, when I order the new plugs here soon, will gap them to that, think they come at .030. I was thinking of going smaller on the injectors but just kept the bigger size, just the old style I have can't be ran at low pulse widths which could have been the issue MadDart had on the dyno when he had the car still.
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Its amazing how quickly things change.
 
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