727 not pumping fluid

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360moparjunkie

360moparjunkie

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Here it is. I have a 727 rblt by local shop using kevlar bands, rev man valve body.
All transmission lines are dry. I took off the forward fluid line and started the car in neutral. No fluid comes out in any gear when running.
I have a new Hughes 4000 stall. Car is on stands and wont turn the tires AT ALL in 1st even at 4k rpm or any gear. This led me to check fluid flow at the lines. I have none. Fluid is full idling in nuetral. I think the fluid not pumping is the problem. What will cause this? I do NOT want to remove trans if at all possible in getting this fixed.
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And dont run it any more. With no fluid flow, its only a matter of a few revolutions and the bushings and washers inside will be toasted.

We are assuming that you had to pull the TC forward to contact the flex-plate to install the 4 bolts.If thats true, then I suppose its possible(but hardly likely) that the converter control valve is stuck.I say hardly likely, because you said no drive in any gear;which includes reverse. When in reverse, line pressure is unregulated and may rise to 250psi,more than enough to dislodge a TC control valve.
 
KickDown said:
X2 And the lugs on the pump inner gear are gone. Looks like you will have to remove the transmission to confirm this.
Click to expand...

Wondering if there is a way to re engage the tc without removing the transmission. Lugs on inner gear gone? Not sure about those. If it must go back to the trans shop as result of my own hand so be it. Real bummer.
Any chance of there not being any damage? Motor has break in time and about a total of 1 hour of run time.
 
yes...you can repair yourself...remove pump assembly from front of trans...then disassemble the pump to get to the gears...remove and replace gears..
 
AJ/FormS said:
And dont run it any more. With no fluid flow, its only a matter of a few revolutions and the bushings and washers inside will be toasted.

We are assuming that you had to pull the TC forward to contact the flex-plate to install the 4 bolts.If thats true, then I suppose its possible(but hardly likely) that the converter control valve is stuck.I say hardly likely, because you said no drive in any gear;which includes reverse. When in reverse, line pressure is unregulated and may rise to 250psi,more than enough to dislodge a TC control valve.
Click to expand...

When the transmission was mated to the motor I did have to slide the converter forward to contact the flex plate. I thought it was engaged. Read the instructions, did the 3 clicks in and so on. Real bummer.
 
I did not see anyone ask if there was fluid in the trans. How much fluid is in it?Deep pan? If so is there a block under the filter to get the screen or filter into the fluid?

Not being a smart *** just asking to be sure.

With an external cooler and deep pan my 904 will take 3 gallons of fluid.
 
It sounds like you did your install part OK.
I just thought of something.Maybe the pump is pumping, just dumping it all back into the pan.Or maybe its not sucking it up.
I guess it wouldnt hurt to drop the pan and have a peak in there.Check that the filter is on right, the VB is bolted tight,maybe drop that VB and check that the TC control valve is assembled correctly and is not stuck, or has wrong spring on it. I would do this before I would drop the unit.Good hunting.
 
If you had to pull the torque converter forward to meet the flexplate it doesn't sound like the converter was installed wrong. I'd drop the pan and check the manual valve to see if they got it installed correctly. If it's not properly connected to the shift linkage it's possible it's staying all the way in the park position. When it's in the park position it dumps the fluid back into the pan.
 
Did you fill the TC before installing? Could just be air bound if pump is dry. If you have not pulled the pan yet try to rig up some way to put pressurized atf in to the front cooler line port.
 
360moparjunkie said:
Wondering if there is a way to re engage the tc without removing the transmission. Lugs on inner gear gone? Not sure about those. If it must go back to the trans shop as result of my own hand so be it. Real bummer.
Any chance of there not being any damage? Motor has break in time and about a total of 1 hour of run time.
Click to expand...

If you have an hour run time without atf in the pump, a seized front bushing is very likely.
 
fishy68 said:
If you had to pull the torque converter forward to meet the flexplate it doesn't sound like the converter was installed wrong. I'd drop the pan and check the manual valve to see if they got it installed correctly. If it's not properly connected to the shift linkage it's possible it's staying all the way in the park position. When it's in the park position it dumps the fluid back into the pan.
Click to expand...

Smart man! I kinda figured it might be something weird if the Converter had to be pulled forward to meet the Flex Plate.
 
If flex plate was put in backwards, you could still have a issue with converter not engaging the pump. MT
 
Heres my thinking.

The lube pressure is regulated to 5 to 30psi, and is a function of whats coming out of the TC, which is regulated by the TC control valve to 30 to 75 in all positions except neutral/park where is less(5-30 in park,30-55 in N), which gets its lube from the line pressure circuit.
These are line pressures;
In park, regulated line pressure is listed as 5 to 30 psi.
-In neutral,manual 2nd,and manual low=55psi. drive-breakaway, and drive-second =75psi,Drive-direct=55-90psi,reverse=230-260.

The point is if the line pressure goes down, everything else goes down too.
So even if the manual valve is stuck in park; if line pressure was ok, there would still be 5-30psi of lube pressure.
And that takes me back to Post#12.
Feel free to correct my thinking.
 
As to the flex-plate being in backwards;
Theres no indication in this thread that he has an aftermarket plate .
Have you ever tried installing a factory plate reversed?
It would be difficult enough to get it on the crank,but I suppose it could be done.But a person would have to be very un-mechanically-inclined to not recognize it as being very wrong.With the center-hole being swedged,the plate would stand proud of the crankflange, and when tightened down, would do un-natural things.And IIRC the plate is offset away from the TC, so if reversed would drive the Lugs towards the TC, increasing pump engagement/reducing the TC clearance.
Am I wrong?
 
I'm betting on the pump tangs on the pump broke off. Even seating the convertor to rough can break them off. I've done it before.
 
AJ/FormS said:
As to the flex-plate being in backwards;
Theres no indication in this thread that he has an aftermarket plate .
Have you ever tried installing a factory plate reversed?
It would be difficult enough to get it on the crank,but I suppose it could be done.But a person would have to be very un-mechanically-inclined to not recognize it as being very wrong.With the center-hole being swedged,the plate would stand proud of the crankflange, and when tightened down, would do un-natural things.And IIRC the plate is offset away from the TC, so if reversed would drive the Lugs towards the TC, increasing pump engagement/reducing the TC clearance.
Am I wrong?
Click to expand...

I used to work at a auto hobby shop on a Navy base, IVE seen it all! :burnout:MT
 
I think it can fit either way. total 1/2 inch difference at converter. I could be wrong tho. MT.
 
Mopar Tim said:
I think it can fit either way. total 1/2 inch difference at converter. I could be wrong tho. MT.
Click to expand...

The bolt holes on the crankshaft where the flex plate bolts up are not equally spaced apart so it's impossible to bolt a flex plate on backwards, unless you hog out the holes that do not line up.
 
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