Phreakish
Well-Known Member
Seems they do come with a significant chance of getting screwed. LOL
A855 - 5 Speed
- Thread starter matthon
- Start date
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Seems they do come with a significant chance of getting screwed. LOL
Absolutely!
My crate was too small for a plug and play 19yo. I have the 855. I will admit, it’s not the glorious piece of machinery it is priced at. Mine also pops out of fourth. Never over 2k does it pop out, and only when flat cruising. I really have no complaints otherwise. I pretty much told myself, if the trans takes a ****, I’m sending it to liberty. Did I pay too much? Yes. Am I mad? No. Does it do the job advertised? 95% of the time yes. Do I wish I would have bought 2 hemi 833s instead of one 855? Maybe...
abodyjoe
Well-Known Member
I'm glad some of you guys are happy with it and all but if I spent the that kind of coin on something that worked great only 95% of the time I'd be pissed. All I can say I'd buy up all the parts you can for that thing while you can. The idea of it was a great one. The execution of it not so much.
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SixPaksRule
Well-Known Member
I went back and read the the OP's information and your comments wanting me to reveal information I am not authorized to disclose.
Yes there is a problem with the transmissions popping out of gear.
The customer service sucks but there some responsibility at the end user - The other problem that has been glossed over - is that the bellhousing is not aligned with the engine. The centerline of the crank needs within 0.0010 inches of the centerline of the bellhousing. Having run 4 speeds for decades this most important measurement is always overlooked and makes a huge difference in how a 4 speed performs. Like night and day difference. I have always been able to get within less than 0.0010 inches. Proper tools and patience always win. We got one within 0.00005 but that took some patience.
There is no excuse for not checking the runout on the bellhousing.
The side loading affects both the engine and transmission, causing crappy shifting, wearing out parts and eventually making the trans jump out of gear.
As to the 855's and other manual transmissions jumping out of gear or refusing to go into gear under load - i have to wonder how well the bellhousings are aligned. Then let's add the dimensional tolerancing issues with the gear sets. NEW gear sets that make noise/jump out of gear have parts that are not made correctly to the print - the parts do not measure to specification. Gear sets made properly work quietly so some one needs to ask the 3 parties making the transmissions about the lack of quality control. Is there a master gear set in house? Probably not based on the issues. I can't fix these issues but some one in the triumverate of 5 speeds - like Garrett Precision needs to get the gear checking metrology equipment out and make properly dimensioned parts. I can guarantee you they are skipping required manufacturing processes based on the problems. Call them up ask them what equipment they are using to check parts and show the paper trail required when making gears. They can't.
Metrology
Yes there is a problem with the transmissions popping out of gear.
The customer service sucks but there some responsibility at the end user - The other problem that has been glossed over - is that the bellhousing is not aligned with the engine. The centerline of the crank needs within 0.0010 inches of the centerline of the bellhousing. Having run 4 speeds for decades this most important measurement is always overlooked and makes a huge difference in how a 4 speed performs. Like night and day difference. I have always been able to get within less than 0.0010 inches. Proper tools and patience always win. We got one within 0.00005 but that took some patience.
There is no excuse for not checking the runout on the bellhousing.
The side loading affects both the engine and transmission, causing crappy shifting, wearing out parts and eventually making the trans jump out of gear.
As to the 855's and other manual transmissions jumping out of gear or refusing to go into gear under load - i have to wonder how well the bellhousings are aligned. Then let's add the dimensional tolerancing issues with the gear sets. NEW gear sets that make noise/jump out of gear have parts that are not made correctly to the print - the parts do not measure to specification. Gear sets made properly work quietly so some one needs to ask the 3 parties making the transmissions about the lack of quality control. Is there a master gear set in house? Probably not based on the issues. I can't fix these issues but some one in the triumverate of 5 speeds - like Garrett Precision needs to get the gear checking metrology equipment out and make properly dimensioned parts. I can guarantee you they are skipping required manufacturing processes based on the problems. Call them up ask them what equipment they are using to check parts and show the paper trail required when making gears. They can't.
Metrology
abodyjoe
Well-Known Member
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.00005, are you sure about that?
DrCharles
Well-Known Member
Right. 100% or nuthin for that kinda coin.
Biomedtechguy
Well-Known Member
The runout I have most often seen across a broad spectrum of manual transmissions, 855 included, is .010 or less total runout.
I hadn't heard of that before Jamie Passon told me to check it.
I bought Zero degree (straight) dowels and a PAIR of each offset from (the best) Robb Mc. I took it a step further and sprung for 2 different Browell's alignment tool/jigs that almost completely fill the hole in the selected bellhousing (in my case 1 MOPAR and 1 Pontiac) you mount it securely and then look at the slight gap all around. If the gap is larger in any area, the bellhousing has to be shifted in that direction.
I hadn't heard of that before Jamie Passon told me to check it.
I bought Zero degree (straight) dowels and a PAIR of each offset from (the best) Robb Mc. I took it a step further and sprung for 2 different Browell's alignment tool/jigs that almost completely fill the hole in the selected bellhousing (in my case 1 MOPAR and 1 Pontiac) you mount it securely and then look at the slight gap all around. If the gap is larger in any area, the bellhousing has to be shifted in that direction.
abodyjoe
Well-Known Member
and you know when someone says it works great 95% of the time that it really means 50-70% of he time...lol
Yup.
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
100% HORSE ****. You have got to be shitting me right? You want my big, fat, hairy white *** to think YOU dial in a bell housing, ANY bell housing to .0010? You want me to buy that **** you are peddling? And then, with a few pecks of the key board, you try to fire hose my arse into thinking YOU indicate a bell housing to .00005???? Dude, that’s Five One Hundred Thousands of an inch!!
You are a liar and a fool. To have the measurement tools to do that is ridiculous. To be able to move the bell housing far enough on some of this junk would mean you can’t even get the damn bolts in the thing.
You are out of your ever loving mind.
If they won’t stay in gear they are JUNK. The syncro is mostly responsible for keeping the transmission in gear. I refuse to believe that it’s something other than that, and it ain’t the bell housing isn’t indicated in for damn sure.
Unreal the BULLSHIT some guys try to sell here.
When you buy a Tremec from Silver Sport Transmissions, they include a sheet that must be filled out and returned to them showing your initial runout and corrected runout within 0.005. That's 5 thousandths, not 5 millionths. LOL. If you don't return it the warranty on the trans is void.
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my68barracuda
Well-Known Member
Is there a master gear set in house?
This one statement by SixPaksRule gives him credibility to me. I will bet that none of the folks that were critical of of his post can explain what a master gear set is or why it would be important to a shop manufacturing gears. Like he said, got one within 0.00005 but that took some patience. I would agree that would be difficult, but he certainly said that. I would also agree that the paper trail for a precision gear set like those used in a manual transmission should be extensive. The control required in the manufacture of functional precision gears is more exacting that the control required in the manufacture of pistons-cams-rods. The metrology for precision gears nearly has its own language.
So now,, lets hear the from the criticizers,, a master gear set is: .................
6PakBee
Well-Known Member
Arrow Gear Products - Master Gears
And I agree, getting the bell aligned within 0.001" is a real trick. Why hasn't someone mentioned parallelism between the flywheel and bell housing face? I see that as just as important.
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
Go read post 355 because he said to work out to the 5 digit. And I’d tell Silver State to bite me. If they are .040 or better I send them.
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
That’s right. And how many people even check that? How many people even know what it is, or how to correct it?
I’ve seen bell housings so far out they were breaking the front bearing retainer and they still would shift and stay in gear. I forget how far out that one was, but it went into the garbage.
Also, who says the hole in the bell housing is round? Dialing in a bell housing to numbers posted in post 355 is silly.
Biomedtechguy
Well-Known Member
I used a magnetic dial indicator to check runout the first time I was made aware that such a thing (runout) existed and that the alignment w/in spec wasn't "certain" just by putting the bolts through the holes in the bellhousing.
Too small a fraction (even for us slackers who are satisfied with 3 decimal points, ie: .010" total or less) for me to use a contraption that no matter how strong the magnetic base, how tight the elbow wing nuts of the arm(s) holding the dial indicator at just the right angle to make continuous contact as it's rotated around the circumference of the bellhousing opening, WHILE the person turning the crank via the pulley bolt, on the OPPOSITE side of the engine from where eyes need to be, especially if you are trying to detect any subtle slide, wiggle, etc of that mag base stuck on the flywheel or crank hub.
Yeah, I don't have enough confidence in that to use it for checking runout.
IF a similar dial indicator can be solidly mounted, AND with maybe one elbow joint, sure, I know that works.
BUT
I take getting that measurement so seriously that investing in the Browell "jig" was well worth the peace of mind, and it also makes it easier for a visually oriented guy like me. I used it on my Roadrunner and will every time I put a bellhousing on, and I also bought the appropriate Pontiac version, for the TKO 600 that's in a box, to be installed soon behind a well built 421 Tripower.
These pix show the step by step process for using the Browell tool:
Too small a fraction (even for us slackers who are satisfied with 3 decimal points, ie: .010" total or less) for me to use a contraption that no matter how strong the magnetic base, how tight the elbow wing nuts of the arm(s) holding the dial indicator at just the right angle to make continuous contact as it's rotated around the circumference of the bellhousing opening, WHILE the person turning the crank via the pulley bolt, on the OPPOSITE side of the engine from where eyes need to be, especially if you are trying to detect any subtle slide, wiggle, etc of that mag base stuck on the flywheel or crank hub.
Yeah, I don't have enough confidence in that to use it for checking runout.
IF a similar dial indicator can be solidly mounted, AND with maybe one elbow joint, sure, I know that works.
BUT
I take getting that measurement so seriously that investing in the Browell "jig" was well worth the peace of mind, and it also makes it easier for a visually oriented guy like me. I used it on my Roadrunner and will every time I put a bellhousing on, and I also bought the appropriate Pontiac version, for the TKO 600 that's in a box, to be installed soon behind a well built 421 Tripower.
These pix show the step by step process for using the Browell tool:
6PakBee
Well-Known Member
Hmm. Went to their website. I guess I have to call the Physic Hotline to get any information.
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
6PakBee
Well-Known Member
Hmm. A whole page of input bearing retainers with no identification as to what they fit? I have to call? Hmm.
Maybe I'm missing something.
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
Hmm. A whole page of input bearing retainers with no identification as to what they fit? I have to call? Hmm.
Maybe I'm missing something.
They want you to measure the crank flange and the bell housing bore.
6PakBee
Well-Known Member
No, no, transmission input bearing retainers.
Browell Bellhousing Custom Builds Aluminum and Steel Bellhousings
As to the bell housing centering jig, mandrel, fixture, I can't see it being accurate to much more than about 0.002" (0.001" offset) as it has to be a slip fit. But there's no denying it'd be faster than using a dial indicator.
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
Right. If you have a scatter shield (everyone should) and you order the tool for the big hole it won’t work on an OE small hole bell housing.
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