A855 - 5 Speed

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I agree that a break-in would not be the difference between a trans holding a gear or not....that's asking a bit much. But I have no problem with the concept of a break-in period for most anything mechanical. It's good to let parts get used to one another, slowly and with some thermal cycling. The torque equation is a bit weird, though.
 
gregcon said:
I agree that a break-in would not be the difference between a trans holding a gear or not....that's asking a bit much. But I have no problem with the concept of a break-in period for most anything mechanical. It's good to let parts get used to one another, slowly and with some thermal cycling. The torque equation is a bit weird, though.
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I understand. The gear surfaces need to find a happy spot together. The rest of it is questionable.
 
I've given my thoughts on lack of communiating the fluid type change already, but now I'm thinking they changed something in the trans to go from calling for a gear oil for limited slip differentials to one that is not.

It didn't make sense at the time to put differential fluid in a manual trans, and I'm no expert, clearly.

The entire gear oil sheet is questionable.
It was in a plastic bag stapled to the inside of the crate, the only thing with it.

What a mess I've gotten myself into.
 
It appears at leas now "someone" is attempting to do the right thing that "should have been done" a "long time ago". Good luck.
 
matthon said:
GFI designed, builds, and repairs the A855.
You and me both, and many others.
Not so, from what I was told directly by GFI and John.

In retrospect, it makes sense, he's never known when new trans will be available and doesn't service them or stock.

Our Story
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The John Huff road testing mentioned in the link indicates a surprising level of, how can I say it, maybe ‘Hill Jack’
An actual road test is useful to verify that a complex assembly was installed correctly. A road test is not a good measure of the actual assembly or even a good way to do the initial break in.
There are just too many variables in actual road tests. Traffic conditions, ambient weather, the vehicle condition, the driver and the list goes on.
A powered bench test would give them much more useable information. Common sensors available today could monitor noise, vibration, temperature, the shift process could be automated and monitored.
Powered bench testing would have far less installation time, be consistent from test to test and give traceable meaningful results. What GFI is doing as their final measure of quality is not an effective evaluation of the transmission.
 
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GFI stated many times they bench test the trans, but added it does not bring it to a high enough, or very high, rpm.
 
matthon said:
GFI stated many times they bench test the trans, but added it does not bring it to a high enough, or very high, rpm.
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Evidence of the lack of an adequate quality plan. That does not mean they don’t make good transmissions, it means they may not be able to identify a bad transmission from a good one when something goes wrong in the manufacturing / assembly process.
 
been a interesting read to say the least.

I just finished up (late March) a customer build 572 FHO Hemi / A855 5-speed / RMS Street Lynx / TTi 3" H pipe / DynoMax / 3" tail pipes to the valance. First test was between snows but never got into 4th or 5th gear. Due to weather, I made 10 or more runs with the car on a floor jack running thru the gears up to 120 mph plus to check for vibration / operation/ and to knock the powder coating off the surface of the rear Wilwoods discs. For what it was worth....stayed in gear A-OK.

I ran into the speedo clearance issue also....as I was finishing up the details, my bad for not catching it in mock up. Luckily, the customer had earlier choose to upgrade to all electronic gauges. My solution, and I see no reason why the a cable could not be routed under carpet to the gauges, was to make a approx 1-1/4" hole in the tunnel area right on top / above of the trans speedometer outlet to allow plugging in / out of the wiring harness. I used a rubber body plug with a small cut-out for the harness to fill the new round hole.

I know of two other 5 speeds, one that has been in for over 2 years with hundreds of miles on it....no popping out of 4th gear issues. And one being installed in HemiMarks small block 68 Dart.

I am / was among the confused..... thinking the whole A855 project was solely Jamies. I will add when I needed anything, information or product, Jamie delivered, on time.

Good luck, I hope your issues will get resolved.
Denny
 
matthon said:
I've given my thoughts on lack of communiating the fluid type change already, but now I'm thinking they changed something in the trans to go from calling for a gear oil for limited slip differentials to one that is not.

It didn't make sense at the time to put differential fluid in a manual trans, and I'm no expert, clearly.

The entire gear oil sheet is questionable.
It was in a plastic bag stapled to the inside of the crate, the only thing with it.

What a mess I've gotten myself into.
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Based on my e-mail discussions with Bill Fuss of GFI back in early 2018, I questioned why they were specifying a GL5 lube - which is used in differentials. It seemed they were just following recommendations from Lucas to use a GL5 (differential )lube. After I pointed out that a GL4 (transmission) lube has totally different friction modifier additives, they appeared to change the recommendation to use a GL4 lube. As far as I know, they did not change the internals. Bill sent the attachment to me about the differences in the lubes.
This was the last e-mail I got from Bill in May 2018.

Jim,
Thanks for your input on this. We used the recommendations of the local Lucas salesman and it now seems obvious to us that we had better choices. We are reviewing your results compared to history and will give updates to our break-in procedure for future units.
Again, thanks for your input and please share future observations with us. Your professional talents concerning oils are appreciated.
Best regards,
William Fuss (Bill)
Garrett-Fuss, Inc.
 

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  • Transaxle_oil.pdf
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It's very common to use GL-5 in manual gearboxes. Been done for decades. Not for every trans, but lots.

If I paid someone to 'build' a car for me, which I wouldn't, I'd beat them to death with a lead pipe if they ran the speedo cable under the carpet. Do it right, or change to a GPD speedo, or whatever. But running it under the carpet doesn't begin to approach proper workmanship.
 
on fluid type,in early 70's mother mopar had trouble with 833's shifting in cold climate. special service message had us change to atf for cold climate and shifting was ok then. not sure why so much trouble with manufacture deciding which slippery lube to use.
 
gregcon said:
It's very common to use GL-5 in manual gearboxes. Been done for decades. Not for every trans, but lots.

If I paid someone to 'build' a car for me, which I wouldn't, I'd beat them to death with a lead pipe if they ran the speedo cable under the carpet. Do it right, or change to a GPD speedo, or whatever. But running it under the carpet doesn't begin to approach proper workmanship.
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The electric harness had just enough bend to keep it out of the interior.....however, I highly doubt anyone could bend/ pinch a speedo cable to keep it out of the interior and make it last for any length of time..the floor is darn near against the output housing.

What is the problem if the speedo cable had to enter by the trans tunnel?....asking for a friend.
 
gregcon said:
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If I paid someone to 'build' a car for me, which I wouldn't, I'd beat them to death with a lead pipe if they ran the speedo cable under the carpet. Do it right, or change to a GPD speedo, or whatever. But running it under the carpet doesn't begin to approach proper workmanship.
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Please forgive my lack of proper workmanship......I'm kinda new at this and still learning.
Will you teach me?
:)
 
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RealWing said:
We are reviewing your results compared to history and will give updates to our break-in procedure for future units.
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Hold the phone - I wasn't going to go here again, but then I thought it matters. It matters because of the $ and that they state it is a precision piece of engineering so it should matter.

First -
No beef with RealWing, you helped me clarify what fluid to use.

Second -
The sheet I received, and I imagine it was sent to everyone for many years, states 75W140 for break in, and after.
No mention of GL4 or GL5.
I see 75W140 listed as GL5 and as GL4 or GL5 based on brand and/or use. I could be wrong on that last part, just another reason why it should be expressly laid out in writing.

Third -
If you're going to give updates to your break in procedure for future units, specifically the GL fluid type, then you should know, not only does it not list a GL rating, but it's the same recommendation for after break in, and it's on the same page!

Fourth -
Based on the above, you should notify all of your existing customers and get the word out, on, I don't know, social media, or possibly on your websites, or on all the Mopar forums you claim to be catering to!

Fifth -
I went back and added a fifth, that's right, so here it is - nobody I spoke to could tell me when the change was made or why. Makes me wonder if they're still sending the sheet I received, because mine looks like a photocopy of a photocopy of a photocopy, so got to use them up before we make more.

Geez Louise.
My apologies, needed to be said.

For clarity, whether you received the outdated useless sheet I did, or something else, the correct fluid to use for break in and after is:
Red Line MT90, 75W90 GL4
 
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matthon said:
Hold the phone - I wasn't going to go here again, but then I thought it matters. It matters because of the $ and that they state it is a precision piece of engineering so it should matter.

First -
No beef with RealWing, you helped me clarify what fluid to use.

Second -
The sheet I received, and I imagine it was sent to everyone for many years, states 75W140 for break in, and after.
No mention of GL4 or GL5.
I see 75W140 listed as GL5 and as GL4 or GL5 based on brand and/or use. I could be wrong on that last part, just another reason why it should be expressly laid out in writing.

Third -
If you're going to give updates to your break in procedure for future units, specifically the fluid type, then you should know, not only does it not list just a GL rating, but it's the same recommendation for after break in, and it's on the same page!

Fourth -
Based on the above, you should notify all of your existing customers and get the word out, on, I don't know, social media, or possibly on your websites, or on all the Mopar forums you claim to be catering to!

Fifth -
I went back and added a fifth, that's right, so here it is - nobody I spoke to could tell me when the change was made or why. Makes me wonder if they're still sending the sheet I received, because mine looks like a photocopy of a photocopy of a photocopy, so got to use them up before we make more.

Geez Louise.
My apologies, needed to be said.

For clarity, whether you received the outdated useless sheet I did, or something else, the correct fluid to use for break in and after is:
Red Line MT90, 75W90 GL4
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like said before 'a surprising level of, how can I say it, maybe ‘Hill Jack’'
 
HemiDenny said:
Please forgive my lack of proper workmanship......I'm kinda new at this and still learning.
Will you teach me?
:)
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If you don't get it by now, there's no teaching you by now.

If this was your own car and you felt like cutting corners, that's your business. But when you are taking someone else's money, you gotta bring your 'A' game to the table. If running a speedo cable underfoot is your A game....

I would spend more time on this but I gotta go out in the shop. I got an important job I'm working on for Walter P. Chrysler's estate. They hired me to restore the only 1932 Imperial left and I'm having hell figuring out how to fit the Ford 9" under it without hitting the air bags. Luckily I ran the exhaust through the cabin and out the sunroof so at least that's taken care of and out of the way.
 
gregcon said:
If you don't get it by now, there's no teaching you by now.

If this was your own car and you felt like cutting corners, that's your business. But when you are taking someone else's money, you gotta bring your 'A' game to the table. If running a speedo cable underfoot is your A game....

I would spend more time on this but I gotta go out in the shop. I got an important job I'm working on for Walter P. Chrysler's estate. They hired me to restore the only 1932 Imperial left and I'm having hell figuring out how to fit the Ford 9" under it without hitting the air bags. Luckily I ran the exhaust through the cabin and out the sunroof so at least that's taken care of and out of the way.
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maybe you skipped over it..... but I noted that I WAS able to run the (electrical) harness OUTSIDE the interior.

My point was for those with a cable that do not want to incorporate a hard 90 degree bend, entering the cabin thru the trans tunnel at the point of the speed-o hook up instead of the (factory) top of the fire wall might be a solution. A / B / or C game....who gives a flying flip....when there are challenges in these aftermarket installs, you look at all kinds of possibilities.

Maybe it would be educational for some of us without your skills if you would explain how you solved the problem when you installed yours?

I might not have any A game builds....but I try hard.
 
I'm tryin...........(sorry for the hi-jack)

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was a small block / automatic ....with a few holes in the floorboards. The choices of the 572 Hemi, A855 transmission, wheels/ tires , Street Lynx / Ford 9" differential, 3" exhaust and trim are all the owners picks.....I just made it happen. The difficult gets done immediately, the impossible takes a day or two.

crap...I think I see a piece of lint on the carpet near the shifter. please forgive me!
 
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cool ride. if i turned out something like that i would be proud. hope this corona stuff ends soon. some people been cooped up too long and need to go outside to get the stink blown off them.
 
rbkt65 said:
cool ride. if i turned out something like that i would be proud. hope this corona stuff ends soon. some people been cooped up too long and need to go outside to get the stink blown off them.
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thanks....no worries. A kick in the balls while often painful, is sometimes a motivator ....at least that is my wife's thinkin' :)
 
Update/recap.
4/14 called John and left mess, as no one from GFI or Passon calls back or replies to email anymore.
4/17 John called me back: A855 - 5 Speed
4/24 Called John, he called GFI, texted me back, I called him back: A855 - 5 Speed
5/8 I followed up via text: John replied GFI has been giving him the run around, but he is going to go forward and send me the trans. Said he wants me to promise to send the old one to him. I said of course, laid out how this needs to go, and asked what if the trans has the same issue, can I get my $ back? He replied he will make this right.
5/9 John sends me a text asking if I want the trans or a refund?
5/10 I reply with a total of what I believe the refund s/b, trans cost, fluid cost, shipping back for warranty. Noted I am not including other expenses, time, effort, etc.
5/20 I send text, need this resolved.
5/21 I call John, we talk, he's dealing with crap from them and this will end up costing him $ and not the other two parties, and I'm ticked off as well.

Trans is still in the test car, his mechanics are out due to all the crap going on. He's going to drive it personally over the next week, offered to send a video, then find someone somehow to pull it, then ship.

Here comes the kicker.

Apparently Passon has the final word on a refund. John texted him, gave him the details.
Let me just interject here, Passon knows all about me and this trans, according to GFI, who stated to me that they contacted Passon to inquire when I purchased the trans to verify the warranty start/end date, why I did not receive any of the ppwk, warranty, receipt, correct break in procedures, etc., and requested Passon supply all of this ppwk to GFI so they could send it to me.
According to GFI he verified I purchased it, the warranty period, but would not forward any ppwk.

Passon's response to John regarding a refund - he does not remember me, so no refund.

Obviously makes no sense, but if I believe him, how the f#<k can you remember someone if you don't return calls or provide ppwk?

And what difference does it make if you personally remember a customer?

Here is where this is at:

Passon refuses a refund.
GFI has stopped returning all calls and emails.
John will send me the trans in the test car as soon as he puts miles on it to verify it is good to go.
 
Man does passon and gfi look bad in all of this. Passon always had a good name but now I'd be a little hesitant to purchase anything from him after hearing all this.
 
I agree.
Maybe it's buried somewhere in the thread, but does anyone know how many A855's have actually been delivered - and of those, how many are defective?
 
I have no idea how many have been built/delivered.

You hit the nail on the head though, a significant number are defective, and they all appear to pop out of 4th.

If you received one without that issue, you praise them, one with that issue you're sol.

Consider the reality here; under warranty, still the same issue, no reply whatsoever from multiple people at GFI for months or Passon, and no one has the wherewithal or the balls to call the customer and get this resolved asap.

They agreed to send me a new trans, but once 9 trans were sent for testing for the same issue and passed, shipped and tested all within a week (my butt they were) they wanted to send me a new cover with a heavier spring.

When I said, no thank you, for multiple reasons, their story changed to your new trans didn't pass testing, we have no idea why, but it's here to get fixed again.

If the transmission that was supposed to change the Mopar world had your name on it, what would you do?

Call the customer asap, refund if requested, get the word out there is an issue, be proactive?

Or keep your mouth shut, keep the $, keep selling trans, take investor's $, deny you remember customers (as if that ever matters), end all communications when you've spent too much time and $ to address a problem, run out the warranty clock in silence?

I recall when Christine told me, after I questioned the discussions she mentioned, they've had multiple meetings on me and my trans, trying to figure out what's wrong with it.

Now I'm thinking she inadvertently spilled the beans, and based on her role, any meeting she would be part of with multiple company people would more likely be about how to cut costs on this issue and end it asap.

If I'm wrong, I'll never know, she doesn't call me back anymore.

This is wrong on so many levels.

John is my only hope.
 
matthon said:
I have no idea how many have been built/delivered.

You hit the nail on the head though, a significant number are defective, and they all appear to pop out of 4th.

If you received one without that issue, you praise them, one with that issue you're sol.

Consider the reality here; under warranty, still the same issue, no reply whatsoever from multiple people at GFI for months or Passon, and no one has the wherewithal or the balls to call the customer and get this resolved asap.

They agreed to send me a new trans, but once 9 trans were sent for testing for the same issue and passed, shipped and tested all within a week (my butt they were) they wanted to send me a new cover with a heavier spring.

When I said, no thank you, for multiple reasons, their story changed to your new trans didn't pass testing, we have no idea why, but it's here to get fixed again.

If the transmission that was supposed to change the Mopar world had your name on it, what would you do?

Call the customer asap, refund if requested, get the word out there is an issue, be proactive?

Or keep your mouth shut, keep the $, keep selling trans, take investor's $, deny you remember customers (as if that ever matters), end all communications when you've spent too much time and $ to address a problem, run out the warranty clock in silence?

I recall when Christine told me, after I questioned the discussions she mentioned, they've had multiple meetings on me and my trans, trying to figure out what's wrong with it.

Now I'm thinking she inadvertently spilled the beans, and based on her role, any meeting she would be part of with multiple company people would more likely be about how to cut costs on this issue and end it asap.

If I'm wrong, I'll never know, she doesn't call me back anymore.

This is wrong on so many levels.

John is my only hope.
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Not to be a nosey Nellie but how did you pay for this transmission? Surely you have paper of some sort to prove you were the original purchaser and the date it was bought.

I’d take a copy and send it to Passon and GFI, certified, return receipt requested. Then follow up with a 150 dollar letter from a lawyer demanding a refund. When most businesses who are dicking the dog on something see paper with a law firm on the letterhead they start jumping.

What’s sickening about the whole deal is I’m seriously stumped how you can screw up the basic 833 design. I’ve ever seen the guts of one of these gear boxes, but how ignorant would it be to redesign and re-engineer all the basic stuff, like sliders, clutching teeth geometry, syncro design and stuff like that? I realize to stuff 5 gears into a case designed for 4 gears means something has to lose some girth but damn, if they changed something that causes the transmission to pop out of gear that’s just stupid.
 
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