Advice around 170 slant carb and engine swap

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jrdoming

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So I have a 1964 valiant signet that I'm trying to get up and running. My long term vision is to eventually swap the 170 for a 360. Right now my priority is to get the car into running order so it can be moved if needed. It seems to have a Carter bbs on it which is causing issues with getting it to run. My father in law seems to believe that the carb needs to be completely replaced as opposed to just cleaned up and rebuilt. The 170 exhaust manifold is also cracked and leaking. I'm not looking to spend a ton of money on the 170 because my goal is to envitably swap it.

Looking for some thoughts on what would it take and cost to get this running vs how much would I need to spend to just expedite the engine swap?
 
I have an exhaust manifold you can have free if you pay the shipping.
 
Try rebuilding the carb first. The kit should be cheap and they are simple carbs. I love 170 slant six engines.
 
Try rebuilding the carb first. The kit should be cheap and they are simple carbs. I love 170 slant six engines.
You're not wrong about rebuilding. Good learning experience regardless. What do you love about the 170s?
 
x2 on rebuild the carb. few bucks and you *should* be good as new. here's good start for some info:

replacements can be spendy and tracking down a good used carb for a rebuild can be a chore. starting with what you have and seeing if you can make that work is probably the most economical way to go in this instance.

Looking for some thoughts on what would it take and cost to get this running

that's a hard one and the the answer is *wildly* dependent on a number of factors. what the current condition is, how long it's been sitting, your level of mechanical skills, what level of "running" you find acceptable, what resources you have available to you and even the network of friends you have (that will help out with parts, wrenching and drinking all your beer).

you could have it running for the cost of a carb rebuild kit, a battery, some basic tune up parts. so let's call that $500. you could likely have it on the road running and reliable with fresh brakes, some fresh rubber, all the tune up stuff plus some other odds and ends for, let's say high end, $1500 bucks if none of the major components is a major problem: bad trans, bent suspension. tired motor, etx.

vs how much would I need to spend to just expedite the engine swap
so, straight away /6 to V8 is more than just plopping a motor in. that's the easy part. there are fixed costs: you will need a V8 transmission, or if it's manual, a V8 bellhousing (and clutch and pressure plate) as well as all the V8 manual trans stuff that's specific to 64~66 cars. you'll need motor mounts, you'll need the specific 64~66 V8 centerlink, you'll need to figure out exhuast, and likely need to swap out your radiator. swapping over to cable style accelerator pedal/operation or hunting down the correct rod and ball linkage for V8 (which F that noise), notching the transmission cross member for dual exhaust if that's your jam.

so again, the answer swings wildly on how much you are able to do yourself, what parts you have or have access to, where you're willing to compromise, and what type of build you want to do (mild to wild).

so, just for the sake of conversation, and i'm going to use round numbers here, let's just say you can scoop up a running 360/727 off of ye olde list of craig for $600. you'll likely need to change the oil pan & pick up so there's a hundo. score some motor mounts at yard for 30 and insulators for another 20 or so. nab a centerlink in the classifieds for a bill, turn up the pedal and throttle cable assembly for maybe 50. you'll probably want to go with dakota manifolds for exhaust, that's the cheapest and easiest option, so there's another $100 (or spend big on good headers at 800 or so bones) and shove another two hundy at the exhaust shop to hook them up and run some pipes and cheapie muffs to the axle and dump there. and then you'll need a radiator so pop for a cheapie alum jobber, there's 250 and throw another 50 at hoses and things and stuffs. hopefully you scored a driveshaft somewhere along the line, or at least got a yoke with that 727 you picked up because you're going to need to shorten the shaft for the longer trans. so there's another 200+ for getting your driveshaft hooked up. you'll need a shifter so let's go low end and hit the swap meet and get a B&M unimatic for like a franklin. okay now let's just add a $500 line item for shenanigans, chicanery and tomfoolery: oil, filters, fuel line, clamps, wires, hardware, connectors, stuff you break, beer, beef jerky and delicious triscuit crackers.

so, that's *checks math* about 2300 that we can more realistically call 2.5K all day.

and this supposes that *everything* on that motor and trans are in good working order and you're not getting nickle and dimed to death on a water pump here, a distributor there, a new set of intake gaskets, or, like, your friend big nose bobby coming over and drinking a 12 pack of your good stuff.

this would be an absolute bare bones, all the stars aligned moment, you lucked out on some smoking deals and hustled your *** off scrounging parts.
 
You're not wrong about rebuilding. Good learning experience regardless. What do you love about the 170s?

They are a high winding engine that can make plenty of power and get great mileage. I souped one up for my 64 Barracuda 4 speed when gas went south in the 70's. A whole different engine than a 225.
 
x2 on rebuild the carb. few bucks and you *should* be good as new. here's good start for some info:

replacements can be spendy and tracking down a good used carb for a rebuild can be a chore. starting with what you have and seeing if you can make that work is probably the most economical way to go in this instance.



that's a hard one and the the answer is *wildly* dependent on a number of factors. what the current condition is, how long it's been sitting, your level of mechanical skills, what level of "running" you find acceptable, what resources you have available to you and even the network of friends you have (that will help out with parts, wrenching and drinking all your beer).

you could have it running for the cost of a carb rebuild kit, a battery, some basic tune up parts. so let's call that $500. you could likely have it on the road running and reliable with fresh brakes, some fresh rubber, all the tune up stuff plus some other odds and ends for, let's say high end, $1500 bucks if none of the major components is a major problem: bad trans, bent suspension. tired motor, etx.


so, straight away /6 to V8 is more than just plopping a motor in. that's the easy part. there are fixed costs: you will need a V8 transmission, or if it's manual, a V8 bellhousing (and clutch and pressure plate) as well as all the V8 manual trans stuff that's specific to 64~66 cars. you'll need motor mounts, you'll need the specific 64~66 V8 centerlink, you'll need to figure out exhuast, and likely need to swap out your radiator. swapping over to cable style accelerator pedal/operation or hunting down the correct rod and ball linkage for V8 (which F that noise), notching the transmission cross member for dual exhaust if that's your jam.

so again, the answer swings wildly on how much you are able to do yourself, what parts you have or have access to, where you're willing to compromise, and what type of build you want to do (mild to wild).

so, just for the sake of conversation, and i'm going to use round numbers here, let's just say you can scoop up a running 360/727 off of ye olde list of craig for $600. you'll likely need to change the oil pan & pick up so there's a hundo. score some motor mounts at yard for 30 and insulators for another 20 or so. nab a centerlink in the classifieds for a bill, turn up the pedal and throttle cable assembly for maybe 50. you'll probably want to go with dakota manifolds for exhaust, that's the cheapest and easiest option, so there's another $100 (or spend big on good headers at 800 or so bones) and shove another two hundy at the exhaust shop to hook them up and run some pipes and cheapie muffs to the axle and dump there. and then you'll need a radiator so pop for a cheapie alum jobber, there's 250 and throw another 50 at hoses and things and stuffs. hopefully you scored a driveshaft somewhere along the line, or at least got a yoke with that 727 you picked up because you're going to need to shorten the shaft for the longer trans. so there's another 200+ for getting your driveshaft hooked up. you'll need a shifter so let's go low end and hit the swap meet and get a B&M unimatic for like a franklin. okay now let's just add a $500 line item for shenanigans, chicanery and tomfoolery: oil, filters, fuel line, clamps, wires, hardware, connectors, stuff you break, beer, beef jerky and delicious triscuit crackers.

so, that's *checks math* about 2300 that we can more realistically call 2.5K all day.

and this supposes that *everything* on that motor and trans are in good working order and you're not getting nickle and dimed to death on a water pump here, a distributor there, a new set of intake gaskets, or, like, your friend big nose bobby coming over and drinking a 12 pack of your good stuff.

this would be an absolute bare bones, all the stars aligned moment, you lucked out on some smoking deals and hustled your *** off scrounging parts.

Hey sorry I should have been more clear. The car was running a couple years back and during our latest attempts my father in law and I have confirmed that the battery, starter, ignition components, and fuel pump are all in decent working order. The rubber is also in decent shape (no signs of dry rot and still has tread).

The biggest issue is the carb since we believe that is keeping the car from starting and running. My first goal is to ensure I can start the car to pull it out of the garage to access storage in the garage when needed.

The next level after initially having the car be movable would be ensuring that it could be driven somewhere safely and for that I believe brakes are for sure the most important item from my initial looks at the car. Again, brakes were working "okay" a few years back but on the latest visit the brake fluid is gone so will need to look at that.

As far the the engine swap I was hoping to be able to hook the 360 up to the 904 torqueflite in the car currently. I did some initial searching and it *seems* possible. All your tips are VERY helpful in understanding what I will need to get and what it will end up costing.
 
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Thanks for this. Crap... Is there a way to keep the push button in the '64 valiant with the 360 or will I need to go completely another direction?
I'm pretty sure you could use a 64 273 904, but you better beef it up for a Hot 360. And use an adapter in the crank for the small pilot torque convertor. Maybe call A & A transmission about converting a later trans to a cable shift.
 
Hey sorry I should have been more clear. The car was running a couple years back and during our latest attempts my father in law and I have confirmed that the battery, starter, ignition components, and fuel pump are all in decent working order. The rubber is also in decent shape (no signs of dry rot and still has tread).

The biggest issue is the carb since we believe that is keeping the car from starting and running. My first goal is to ensure I can start the car to pull it out of the garage to access storage in the garage when needed.

The next level after initially having the car be movable would be ensuring that it could be driven somewhere safely and for that I believe brakes are for sure the most important item from my initial looks at the car. Again, brakes were working "okay" a few years back but on the latest visit the brake fluid is gone so will need to look at that.

As far the the engine swap I was hoping to be able to hook the 360 up to the 904 torqueflite in the car currently. I did some initial searching and it *seems* possible. All your tips are VERY helpful in understanding what I will need to get and what it will end up costing.
i'd be inclined to throw a carb kit at it and see what shakes out.

brakes are easy, but tedious. and easy to screw up too. again, i don't know the level of mechanical aptitude or experience that you have so i can't just say: get thee to carquest and grab some fresh shoes, hardware kits, cylinders and knock that bish together.

assess what you have, where you eventually want to be, and what your constraints are: time, money, experience, etx.

if the brake system is totally shot, it's a worth while to upgrade everything to disc brakes. but that's money, time, parts, and expertise you might not have right now and if the more pressing issue is "to make it move" then you just have to settle with probably having to do things twice.

anyway, brake fluid doesn't just go away. find out where it's leaking from. then inspect all the rest of the system and figure out how much of it needs replacement and repair. personally i would spend as absolutely as little as possible on the drum brake system-- just enough to make it mobile and safe-- knowing that i'd be upgrading to discs in the future. likely, you'll just be replacing a few leaking wheel cylinders and cleaning up the system.

get yourself a FSM over at mymopar.com and pore over the technical data and operations for repair, also watch a grip of u-tube vidyas and you should be on your way.

as for the trans: V8 won't hook up to /6. if you want to keep pushbuttons, then you'll need a V8 trans from that era, along with the correct torque converter and adapter ring, or a conversion kit for later trans to the push button box. both are spendy propositions.

get it running first. get it safe. then get it driving. collect the parts for the swap while you enjoy driving it. worry about the pushbuttons somewhere else down the line.
 
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