A cylinder head capable of making 600 hp plus is really a special order piece per the application, expect a wait
and then there's the intake, is it capable
and then there's the intake, is it capable
AFR Heads
- Thread starter skrews
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Newbomb Turk
Well-Known Member
B3422w5
Well-Known Member
Some of these people complain because they will never be players anyhow. What anybody wants is readily available from a number of sources, regards bolt on heads, from 400 to almost 700 horse potential.
To me, and I have noticed this forever in the Mopar community, is talk is WAY more common than opening up a wallet that has neccesary funds.
I've only heard of them cause you talk about them, What percentage of people out there thinking about buying TF have also heard about Bloomers ? Now I know about them I would consider buying them if I was in the market but if you don't know about them it's a little hard to buy.
I don't understand why that concept is hard to get, if the majority don't know about them how are they gonna consider buying them?
B3422w5
Well-Known Member
Exactly, if you are looking to make power, you hang out on forums like this, Moparts, Facebook Mopar related forums, attend Mopar race events, etc, etc.
It’s pretty near impossible to not hear about stuff like this.The fact is, it’s still a limited market. They haven’t made LA engines in over 20 years, maybe 5% of guys with classic era cars actually seriously race them, and if you have been in this thing a while, you get to where you know an awful lot of them, especially smallblock guys who race, there are not a ton of us.
And you shouldn't, probably best to find a builder that builds a 600 hp sbm all day long also.
But a good chunk of people don't, They see TF ad or in a catalogue, online see the price ain't too bad and TF says they can make 500 + hp, out comes credit card and sold. You don't think the same person would buy a step up over TF for a reasonable price also if they had a choice?
How many of the question here are people needing help cause they didn't plan it out too well, or their planning it here but don't want to listen to a more modest build.
I bet the majority building an engine probably will never see a track.
B3422w5
Well-Known Member
I agree, most on here, or elsewhere are more than happy building a 500 horse catalog build that they can throw a decent set of tires on, modest cam and convertor, make a once in a blue moon outing at the track, lay down 11’s feel mighty( as they should be) impressed and be done. And that’s cool and is the vast majority of guys.
Those that don’t fall into that category are farther and fewer between, and those are the guys who look outside the box if they want to run a lot faster.
In my case, having run 10.70’s with a flat tappet Eddie stroker 25 years ago, the only reason I started with eddies on my current car is because it already had them on the car, along with a 10 to 1 360. It ran 12.20’s.
I installed a stroker, copied pretty much what I had done 25 years ago… and, back to 10.70’s again. I should have been happy and left well enough alone, but I didn’t.
So with me, I knew how much further I could go stepping things up further, but didn’t feel like throwing money at a limited outcome.
Then along came the Bloomers to the market. From what I knew about Vic, I knew I wouldn’t have to change virtually anything to pick up a lot of steam. So I sold the eddies and bought these. Kept my same cam, same maintenance free setup, and gained a ton.
Now, if I want to step up and run 9’s( I don’t) I have good enough heads to do so.
I had already seen other guys buy trick flows, and where that would get me, in fact was the second guy in line to get them when they came out, listened to all the marketing talk, but I ended up giving my spot in line to a member here who bought them.
Glad I waited, wouldnt have been happy
B3422w5
Well-Known Member
Vic Bloomer has been 9.50’s with a 20 over stock stroke 340 and 1.88 valved 596 heads. 67 Barracuda.
Corrected...
Good for Vic! Most here will put a head that flows 250 cfm on an engine and never make 500 HP.
I bought a set of Bloomer heads last year. I didn't need this forum to do it at all. If you're serious enough and do your research, you find out really quick what works. And the one thing you don't get out of a mass-produced head is the one on one you have with Rod himself. He asks questions and gives you advice on your build.
People result to attacking the opposition rather than the argument when they're losing an argument.
When someone attacks the person making an argument instead of addressing the argument itself, this is called an "ad hominem" fallacy.
Just because someone has or hasn't done something doesn't disqualify their arguments. It's entirely possible that someone has researched a considerable amount on a subject and is very knowledgeable. I actually do think 273 falls in this category.
Are there things people learn through experience, which then gives extra qualification? Of course! But it's not the be all end all. Plenty of experienced guys out there spout BS all the time. Plenty of experienced guys out there who think they're some kinda walking god and can say no wrong.
I know which I'd rather listen to.
Plenty of really experienced guys who were extremely proud of their 12s car in the 80s. A lot has changed since then and I'd argue it's in part because you can learn so much more, before the first dollar is spent experimenting and wasting time.
lead69
hopeless car junkie
I am just trying to figure out where all these average mopar guys are that are wanting to build a 600hp small block lol. If a mopar guy truly wants to build 600hp he isn't on this forum complaining about not having a head that will take stock style bolt on's and make 600hp, he has done his research and is ordering a set of bloomers. I think it would be great to have a few more heads that perform to level of the bloomers but again if the average mopar guy were after 600hp we would have a better version of the w5 as well as still have some version of the mopar race block. You know why that would be?, because there would be enough sales of those pieces to create enough profit that an investor group would have made it happen.
100% preach, only an idiot would use Edelbrock TF AFR etc.. that out performed current TF by 50 hp or so, no one would think twice about using a head like that. What a ridiculous idea that was so ashamed
9secRR
Well-Known Member
The “average” guy on here has no idea what 450 hp is never mind 600.
I see a few guys wanting to keep there post count up cause they have no clue. They repeat the same thing for pages trying to convince themselves that there is no performance head able to make more then 450 hp
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100% you hit the nail right on the head, without your genius level reading comprehension skill I would never realized that my argument was that 450 hp plus sbm heads didn't exist, here I thought I was making a whole different argument. Glad you showed up with that amazing brain power you have an explained to me what I meant.
9secRR
Well-Known Member
Just an honest 400hp with the right gearing is enough to make the " Average" guy in a 3100 # A-body **** his drawers before the next stop sign. lol
450 would be more than a handful for most on the street.
9secRR
Well-Known Member
I’m sure there has been many soiled undergarments from 400-450 hp.
My thoughts on this tread. There's plenty of head options and block options out there. For a street car any of the TF, SM, Edde's Pro Maxx. Conventional headed race car the Bloomers. Anything that makes more power than the Bloomers needs a race block. There's plenty of used Chrysler race blocks out there. Ritter blocks are available. Ritter blocks are very good, but are expensive. But no more so than anybody else's race block, as has already been stated in this tread.
Unfortunately SBM's got a bad rep a long time ago and and has carried on into this day as being too expensive to build and make BIG power. That's fake news. It doesn't cost more to make 850 hp with a SBM than any other small block. Good parts cost, it doesn't matter what platform your starting with. For what ever reason Mopar guys are tighter with there money than the Chevy guys. As far as I know the most powerful N/A SB is a SBM with a P5 head. Like 1200 and something HP and 402".
TBH the SBM should have been the premier SB from the beginning. Taller deck, wider bore spacing, higher cam, wider oil pan rails. What kept it from that? The false thought that the SBC was better and made more power. 340 A bodies were as quick as any SBC car. 340 heads flow just as much as the infamous SBC double hump head and the 340 has a better rod to stroke ratio.
I guess find your budget and make however much power you can afford. But the heads and the blocks are out there to make as much power as you can afford.
Edit: I went back and checked. Actually the 340 head with a 2.02" intake valve flows 15 cfm more than the SBC double hump head.
Unfortunately SBM's got a bad rep a long time ago and and has carried on into this day as being too expensive to build and make BIG power. That's fake news. It doesn't cost more to make 850 hp with a SBM than any other small block. Good parts cost, it doesn't matter what platform your starting with. For what ever reason Mopar guys are tighter with there money than the Chevy guys. As far as I know the most powerful N/A SB is a SBM with a P5 head. Like 1200 and something HP and 402".
TBH the SBM should have been the premier SB from the beginning. Taller deck, wider bore spacing, higher cam, wider oil pan rails. What kept it from that? The false thought that the SBC was better and made more power. 340 A bodies were as quick as any SBC car. 340 heads flow just as much as the infamous SBC double hump head and the 340 has a better rod to stroke ratio.
I guess find your budget and make however much power you can afford. But the heads and the blocks are out there to make as much power as you can afford.
Edit: I went back and checked. Actually the 340 head with a 2.02" intake valve flows 15 cfm more than the SBC double hump head.
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Agreed
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