AFR Heads
- Thread starter skrews
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Right on bro.
I'll concede that point about bloomers. It's a little annoying you can't buy them from a web storefront but I realize that's me being a whiney *****. I know they can be had. I've talked to the guy about a set.
I think they're a pretty attractive deal considering there's no other great alternatives. I do still have concerns about long term longevity with maxed out heads (I know that is speculation but I still have the concern) And they don't have any room to grow-but that's not really a core argument to me anyway.
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Cool, sounds like for the most part they check all your boxes. Good luck on your build and let us know how they run so that others will know if they will be a good choice for them.
99% of the buying public have probably never heard of them.
Am I crazy ? why is this concept so hard to understand ?
How many other porters can carve you up a 500-600+ hp heads, 1000's ? what stops most from buying from them ?
You could buy W2 since the 70's why did it take the release of Edelbrock's before a huge number of people would run aftermarket heads ? which obviously weren't needed, W2's easily could handle that market and if people did off set rockers and heads would probably be pretty cheap by now.
Why is AFR releasing a head you already basically can buy from others ? cause they got a Name and are readily available everywhere and people will buy them cause of it.
gzig5
Well-Known Member
I believe that those were the original version of the Bloomer heads that did not work out. If so, they are not available anymore. I don't know why they don't pull that crap off the web. I have never seen any advertising for the new head, whatever they are called. The only way to get them is track Bloomer down on FB or some other social media that a lot of "mature" folks don't have. So while they are supposedly readily available you can't find them on a standard company webpage or any of the speed parts vendor sites. If you go to any car show and ask folks about the available SBM heads, you're going to hear crickets regarding the Bloomers. Might do better at a race track but the "majority" of users being discussed aren't at the track every weekend. Probably a good idea for them to not advertise because I bet they are making them as fast as they are selling them and would create a big backlog that their current custom assembly process (one man doing the final assembly and blessing) can't support.
Newbomb Turk
Well-Known Member
So the Bloomers, who’ve been around awhile know better than to build a bunch of heads so tire kicking coupon clipping cheapskates can talk about buying them.
Don’t you get it? You seem to be reasonable and you think a lot. Think it through.
Would you put a TON of money to sleep for a market that is so cheap and finicky that you’ll be years and years and years getting your money back.
That’s how companies go broke.
Want an example? Here’s a good one.
The Ritter block. I’d bet everything that 99% of the guys on FABO have ever seen one. Of the one percent who have, have never had to machine one.
Those same guys think you can run to Walmart and buy a Chevy block for half the price and drag it home and bolt it together.
That’s absurd. Why?
Because those cheap assed half priced Dart blocks and any other brand are REPLACEMENT quality blocks. They are NOT race blocks. Not even close.
So when you get down to the nut cutting you find out that when the Chevy block gets billet caps (standard on a Ritter block) and .904 lifter bores there isn’t 200 dollars difference. If that.
And, since I’ve done it many times with all three brands (GM, Ford and Chrysler) I can say there isn’t an aftermarket block that comes finish machined.
It just doesn’t happen.
Yet, guys ***** they can’t buy a block. Or it costs too much. Or it takes too much work.
When I hear **** like that I say they need a 400 hp 408. It’s what they are capable of handling.
The ship has sailed. Support for this **** is over. When you could buy the ****, no one bought it.
It’s no different today.
No one is saying they should, that's why were saying someone as in Edelbrock, AFR etc.. that basically could add a cnc version that's capable making more power than TF (up the game for the novice) or even TF offering another level that anyone could order from practically anywhere.
Newbomb Turk
Well-Known Member
These average guys looking to build a 600hp small block from a catalog never built a 450hp engine. lol
Yep and I don't think it's the version listed above
Cause 99% of the buying public has no idea who Bloomer is or if they can be trusted.
(Not saying they can't be.)
You think if Edelbrock had a CNC version of there RPM head that beat TF they couldn't sale them ? and or AFR etc.. or even SM.
Why are TF being sold by the truck load but not Bloomers ? obviously Bloomers are the better deal, probably cause TF has a good chunk of the market and ease of availability.
Newbomb Turk
Well-Known Member
Ok. I’ll type it slower for you.
There isn’t a market for what you claim you want. Who in their right mind would jump into a minnow sized market? No one unless you want to go broke.
Cry all you want but when the options were out there they didn’t get the support to make it worth doing.
So your pipe dream ain’t gonna happen. Nor should it.
Doesn't stop people from buying Edelbrocks and TF, as long as they think they can.
Newbomb Turk
Well-Known Member
lol **** me running.
So you think if someone develops a “bolt on” head (there is no such thing in the real world but I suppose in the fantasy world you hope for it could happen) that would make 600 hp you could sell more than edelbrock? Or TF?
You are absolutely nucking futs.
The market is SATURATED.
BTW, you’ve been around. How many guys on here will actually build a 600 hp engine?
I know the bullshitters on here a dream that if they could just grab a Summit catalog and order the **** up they’d do it.
They won’t. Are YOU going to buy these imaginary heads as soon as they come out?
Oh wait, you won’t. Neither will 99.999% of the guys on here.
It’s crazy to sit here and ***** about what you don’t have when the **** to do what you want is ALREADY ON THE MARKET.
A market shrinking by the day as us old goats die off.
If we look at the new generation guy's, some are already doing the new generation Hemi swap, it's the wave of the future, but still a slim future market.
You could be right, but you have zero proof.
Why did TF, why is AFR, why is Blueprint.
So if Edelbrock drop a CNC ported version of their head that made 50 hp more on average than TF at a competitive price, no one would buy them. They still just buy the TF cause who wants more power. Possible but I doubt it.
NC Engine Builder
Grumpy Old Man
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All it would take is someone to digitize a bloomer head, then just make money with that program. But I would consider that theft more or less
Doesn't the Bloomer head ? you don't think Edelbrock, AFR etc.. couldn't come up with a similar cnc program.
Yes just look at all the 600 hp heads for sbm at jegs summit etc..
A lot more will try. Instead of a TF 408 most will probably buy the bigger head, don't see as many wanting to build Edelbrock RPM head 408 since TF came out.
Probably not, was saying they would be good for the industry if 600 hp was more readily available. If I was to build something like that I'd want a 470.
You could be right and it's a flop
It's not for the average guy. Before TF became available people could already build 500+ hp engines but what did TF do, it made it available to the average guy, like how edelbrocks made 450 + hp. And all I'm saying would nice if some stepped it up above TF.
All a vendor has to do is look at the Mopar forums and see that most are waiting for the Chinese speedmaster sale.
Yea an American company is going to enter another performance head to the market, yea right.
These same guy's are hoping China produces a performance block comparable to the Ritter for much less in cost. lol
Build an honest 450 hp catalog engine with the current parts available and get back to me.
Yea an American company is going to enter another performance head to the market, yea right.
These same guy's are hoping China produces a performance block comparable to the Ritter for much less in cost. lol
Build an honest 450 hp catalog engine with the current parts available and get back to me.
Not all W5’s are. Poor aluminum and castings are the draw back if you go to far. Looked like you were calling out all W heads to me.
IMO, in a sense you were because they are iron heads and by that metric, to heavy to use.
Major porting needed? No.
Like most any head. Then again, any head can be ported for more power. What’s big power to you?
The MP templates can be used by a beginner and reach 300 cfm.
It’s wildly humorous that people complaining about the market will never purchase or build the engine themselves for the power level they are complaining about.
The old adage of (power) speed cost money (how thick is your wallet) also gets complained about.
It’s even funnier that an offset rocker is now exotic when it’s been in common house for decades and decades.
@Newbomb Turk , stop arguing with or trying to straighten out @273. He hasn’t a clue about what he talks about since he has been here @ FABO. He just complains about what he doesn’t know and understands while presenting and giving advice of an expert builder of many years. Then as shown above, when you contradict him or try to correct him, …….
Whom ever posted the Victor head…. I call out as being right.
Anybody wants to build an EZ (ish) big power engine should start with those heads and slam them up top a stroker with a big cam and have a nice day.
There price point is better than ported chink heads even if purchased on Black Friday, then ported.
The old adage of (power) speed cost money (how thick is your wallet) also gets complained about.
It’s even funnier that an offset rocker is now exotic when it’s been in common house for decades and decades.
@Newbomb Turk , stop arguing with or trying to straighten out @273. He hasn’t a clue about what he talks about since he has been here @ FABO. He just complains about what he doesn’t know and understands while presenting and giving advice of an expert builder of many years. Then as shown above, when you contradict him or try to correct him, …….
Whom ever posted the Victor head…. I call out as being right.
Anybody wants to build an EZ (ish) big power engine should start with those heads and slam them up top a stroker with a big cam and have a nice day.
There price point is better than ported chink heads even if purchased on Black Friday, then ported.
9secRR
Well-Known Member
Basically sums up this thread.
This sums it up for me. Top end parts that used to be cables to purchased new, but still available, for decades and still getting it done. But yet everyone bitches. I guess they are right!
Heavy iron heads are to heavy to go fast.
B3422w5
Well-Known Member
Anybody I know who has wanted Bloomer heads has had zero issue getting them. It’s not that hard. I had to wait about a month to get mine, setup per my cam specs. You would be surprised how many sets they have sold.
Don’t know how much easier it could possibly be. So yea, the availability is generally excellent.
Just cause Summit doesn’t sell them doesn’t make them any harder to get. How many times has Trick flow not had anything available.
B3422w5
Well-Known Member
I have had mine on 2.5 seasons thus far. Street strip car I race quite a bit.
Zero issues. And I know a guy who has run them with a 650 lift roller cam on drag week. He completed it on pump gas running 9.90 average.
There is no need for room for growth. They have already been proven to support 680 horse.
98% of guys who will ever buy them I doubt will build anything that even fully takes advantage of them( like me) I am happy running 10.20’s, don’t need a roller cam, nor want to get a license again and more cage to run 9’s
PRH
Well-Known Member
If it’s a 4-8 week wait to be able to get the heads you really want, in my mind, thats not that big of a deal.
Just need to plan ahead.
Just need to plan ahead.
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