Another Mopar Off My Bucket List - Barracuda Fastback

[1967 'cuda]

Well, the pushrods arrived from Smith Brothers on Tuesday March 29th late in the afternoon. With the fan off of the motor, I marked the harmonic balancer every 90' and set about installing & adjusting them according to Mopar's sequence guide. I took my time so it wasn't until the wee hours when I finished. It was too late to do much else so I connected the battery booster and trickled a charge into it to make sure it would be fully charged.

The weather here has been really erratic. The calendar may say it's Spring but we've gotten snow 3 times during the past few weeks. The older I get the more I tend to avoid any more misery than I have to endure. The car was put on hold again as I waited for nicer conditions.

In the meanwhile A friend of mine invited me to a tour of a 'private musclecar collection' in Syracuse, Nebraska. The owner is said to have the second largest collection of musclecars in all the world. They were totally original, - no clones.

According to what I was told, the cars were all going to be moved to Florida because the billionaire owner was being pushed by the state of Nebraska to license, insure, and pay taxes on all of them despite the fact they were all stored inside.

Over half of the collection had already been transported to Florida including the majority of the Chrysler products. Most of the remaining cars were Shelby Mustangs, Yenko cars, and pace cars but a few Mopars still remained.

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[1967 'cuda]

When the weather finally started behaving I figured it was time to get back to business on the Roadrunner. Although I'd finished adjusting the lash and buttoned up the top end again, I still needed to go back through the process of checking rotor phase ans syncing the distributor with the FAST ECU. It wouldn't have been necessary but every time we've had a problem dialing the car in, we've resorted to fiddling around with those settings.

As I opened up the garage door I saw my son Spencer's Challenger pulling up into the driveway. Perfect timing! He'd talked about coming back for a visit and was eager to find out if I'd made any progress on his car.

The first thing we did was to crank the engine over to see if it would fire before we made any adjustments. Even though we hadn't yet re-set the distributor I was optimistic. Spencer... - not so much.

It didn't start but it acted as though it wanted to. We had only cranked it over for about a minute and Spence noticed that the new Optima battery we'd installed 6 months ago was already showing a significant drop in voltage. He was hungry for some KFC chicken so we ran to Columbus to eat and picked up another new Optima and a set of fresh spark plugs.

 

[1967 'cuda]

As soon as we got back home we made the necessary distributor adjustments and swapped out the battery & spark plugs.

Now, my memory tends to really suck sometimes. When we pulled out the old plugs I checked to see where we had the gaps set. - They were at .055". I don't know why. I don't remember playing around with the gaps and we've always gapped our plugs at .045 when running an MSD box. At any rate, we set the fresh ones at the .045 spec before installing them.

The car popped off and ran within the first few cranks. It idled on it's own without having to feather the throttle. I was probably grinning like an idiot but things were finally starting to look like they were going our way. Spencer noticed that the fuel gauge was showing close to empty. I cleared out the driveway so we drive the Roadrunner to a gas station for some fuel. It's the first time in 6 months that this turd has seen the light of day. To be on the safe side, I followed him in the Sebring.

The car sounded pretty good but still didn't seem to be properly tuned. The nearest gas station was about a half mile away. He babied the car all the way there.

We had made the decision to keep the car running rather than shut it off while refueling. We didn't want to take the chance that we might not be able to restart it. It sounded good but Spencer told me it had little throttle response. Although concerned, I knew we hadn't fully programmed the ECU yet. As he pulled away from the pumps the car died. I cringed and waited for it to fire back up.

2. 3. 4 attempts. It didn't want to start. We did the obligatory walk of shame as we pushed the Roadrunner away from the gas pumps so we wouldn't block other cars. Damn! It's bad enough when we fail at home. I hate it when we look like schmucks out in public. I was wearing my ROADKILL tee-shirt so it probably seemed appropriate.

 

[SNKEBIT]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! rotest:

 

[1967 'cuda]

I'd had a chance to check the timing before we'd left to gas up the car. According to the timing light we were still running way too much advance. Normally we would have made further adjustments before taking the car out but the need for petrol seemed more important.

After a brief discussion with Spence I decided to run back to the house and get the truck, tow rope, and a 1/2" wrench. It didn't take long and I was back.

The first thing I decided to try was to retard the timing. If our timing light was correct, we had too much advance. It worked like a charm and we were soon rumbling down the road again.

As I followed Spencer back home new problems showed up. A steady dribble of oil and gas marked his path.

 

[1967 'cuda]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! rotest:

I may not be able to quote Murphy's Law correctly, but I'm bound to it like the law of gravity. :banghead:

 

[1967 'cuda]

Spencer had topped the tank off when he put in fuel. I'm not sure where the leak is coming from yet but it's definitely somewhere around the tank. It's probably one of the AN fittings but it could be the filler plate we made on top of the tank. I'm certain we'd sealed it up tight but am questioning whether or not I used any sealant on the bolts that went into those nutserts.

The oil was seeping from both valve covers. We had some expensive gaskets that were supposed to be re-usable. They were rubber with an inner steel core. Unfortunately they had shown signs of having been compressed and I didn't add any sealant because I thought we might be pulling them off again.

Ever since installing the tti headers, we'd had exhaust leaks. They weren't major but it was still annoying and may have been enough to screw with the O2 sensor. I really hate header installation but Spence was determined that we fix that issue now too.

A quick trip to the local NAPA for supplies and we were ready to get greasy again. We bought some high temperature copper sealant for the exhaust. I had a spare set of header gaskets hanging on the wall. For the new set of valve cover gaskets we used some Permatex aviation sealant.

I was probably overly cautious when we installed the headers and valve covers in the past. My fear was that we might strip the threads that were in those aluminum heads so I don't think we'd applied enough torque to them. This time we tightened the crap out of them.

 

[69_340_GTS]

I am not sure what kind of heads you have, but the Edelbrocks have heli-coils in them right from the factory. In fact, IMHO any threaded aluminum parts should have heli-coils in them wherever possible from day one.

I'll bet the v/c are leaking because they are hitting on the intake runners, not allowing proper crush on the gaskets. Almost every aftermarket v/c has to be modified to remove the interference.

 

[1967 'cuda]

I am not sure what kind of heads you have, but the Edelbrocks have heli-coils in them right from the factory. In fact, IMHO any threaded aluminum parts should have heli-coils in them wherever possible from day one.

I'll bet the v/c are leaking because they are hitting on the intake runners, not allowing proper crush on the gaskets. Almost every aftermarket v/c has to be modified to remove the interference.

The heads are Edelbrock Performer RPMs. I didn't realize they had those heli-coils in them. If I had I wouldn't have been so gun shy tightening the bolts. It's awesome they have them and I totally agree that any aluminum parts that have threads in them should be done that way.

Thanks for the suggestion 69_340_GTS but I'd already notched the valve covers to clear the intake runners when we first installed them so I was certain we had clearance. - And they didn't have any leaks until I re-used the old gaskets. The leaks that did start were on the exhaust sides of the valve covers and I could see that the header flanges had plenty of room between them and the covers. The new gaskets with the added sealant took care of our oil leaks. I'm not sure if the old gaskets were too compressed or if they hadn't been properly sandwiched between the rail on the heads and the covers. At any rate, we drove the car for about a half hour today and were leak free.

The tti headers we installed were bought used and had been hammered on in several spots for extra clearance. One of my fears was that they might have been so bent that they weren't mating flush with the heads. - They only clear our mini starter by about 1/8". There was no way we could have run a full size starter with them. Despite my concerns we're now leak free on the exhaust system now! - So I'm still thinking I hadn't torqued them down tight enough.

We checked the gas tank and could tell that the leakage there was coming from the top of the tank. We'd put a catch pan beneath it overnight and caught about a cup of gas. The plan right now is to continue with our tests and tunes and ignore the tank problem until we use up most of what's inside. The leak is only an issue when the tank is totally full. We'd thought we had done a great job sealing the access hole we made in the top but obviously it wasn't good enough. I'm still uncertain if I'd put sealant on the threads of the bolts that went into the nutserts. The tank may also have bowed when it was strapped into place.

 

[360DartGT66]

That is great progress, John. Not effortless but is it ever?

 

[1967 'cuda]

That is great progress, John. Not effortless but is it ever?

Thanks Anders. Now that we've gotten the car running I'm back into unfamiliar territory. It's time for a lot of internet research on the tuning aspect. Average Joe offered to send me a copy of the tune he used and I need to talk to him more about it. We're not set up the same so I'm not sure it would work for us but I'm guessing he's got a lot more good info that would help.

 

[1967 'cuda]

The '67 Barracuda sat outside all Winter without being driven. I hadn't gotten around to replacing the MSD control box we'd robbed off of it and used to replace the Roadrunner's cooked box. Last night I finally started the process of putting the repaired controller in it. The wiring lengths needed to be modified and that didn't take long. I still need to enlarge the mounting holes for the anti-vibration mounts before I can attach it.

 

[SNKEBIT]

The '67 Barracuda sat outside all Winter without being driven.

NNNOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


John---->:violent1:<----ME

 

[1967 'cuda]

NNNOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

John---->:violent1:<----ME

-'fraid so. Didn't mean to get your panties in a ruffle. :butthead:

I don't know the average IQ of a box of rocks but I've been told it's higher than mine. :banghead: Maybe someday when I win the lottery I'll be able to afford more storage. It's probably more likely I'll become poor enough that I won't have any cars to worry about keeping inside. #-o

 

[1967 'cuda]

- Didn't get anywhere on the 'Cuda today. After scratching our heads for hours trying to find a definitive guide for tuning the efi, My son thought it best to take the car into an expert. We searched for viable shops in the morning and decided to take the Roadrunner to a place in Grand Island, Nebraska.

I'd run into the owner last year at one of the car shows. He had a pair of e-bodies there that were both running FAST efi systems and his shop specializes in building dragsters, pro-stock race cars, and musclecar restorations. He wasn't there because they were out on the east coast racing but was going to be back Monday.

It took a few hours to ready the truck and trailer and then do some final work on the Roadrunner before loading it for the trip. The drive took a couple of hours as we bucked a 50 mph headwind all the way there.

We were pleased at what we saw at the shop. They had a '68 Charger R/T that just rolled out of their paint booth and we were shown the aluminum Indy Hemi that was being built for it. There was a row of Mopar musclecars stored inside including another '68 Charger, a pair of '70 Cudas, a Dart, a Valiant, a Plymouth Arrow drag car, etc, etc...

I'm somewhat disappointed that we won't be completing the setup of the efi ourselves but sort of relieved that they'll be using their dyno to dial it in.

We were getting close. The car started easily, sounded good, and seemed to be responding to the self learning process it was supposed to go through. whether or not we would have been able to squeeze all the power potential out of it on our own was doubtful. I guess it was time to turn the reins over to the tuner guys.

Maybe I'll get to the 'Cuda tomorrow.

 

[360DartGT66]

I think the odds of ANY home-tuner to get to the same result as a professional with a dyno and experience with the equipment are zero.

 

[Abodybomber]

I think the odds of ANY home-tuner to get to the same result as a professional with a dyno and experience with the equipment are zero.

X2.. I love F.I.,Mopar provided only a couple programs,for the 300-380 Magnum crates. Mopar Action pushed hard for that,and finally got it. I know a couple old time hot rodders: one embraced the dyno roller(likes 5.0/4.6 engine swaps..), The other embraced multiple passes on the Vericom 2000 ( yes ,one still works nowadays..), with his carbed setups.(Rats,SBC& wedge Mopar strokers..) One takes days to do it,the other takes hours,at a higher price: much quicker. That wide band O2,is a really good middle ground option.( never tried one,an option with time)...

 

[famous bob]

- Didn't get anywhere on the 'Cuda today. After scratching our heads for hours trying to find a definitive guide for tuning the efi, My son thought it best to take the car into an expert. We searched for viable shops in the morning and decided to take the Roadrunner to a place in Grand Island, Nebraska.

I'd run into the owner last year at one of the car shows. He had a pair of e-bodies there that were both running FAST efi systems and his shop specializes in building dragsters, pro-stock race cars, and musclecar restorations. He wasn't there because they were out on the east coast racing but was going to be back Monday.

It took a few hours to ready the truck and trailer and then do some final work on the Roadrunner before loading it for the trip. The drive took a couple of hours as we bucked a 50 mph headwind all the way there.

We were pleased at what we saw at the shop. They had a '68 Charger R/T that just rolled out of their paint booth and we were shown the aluminum Indy Hemi that was being built for it. There was a row of Mopar musclecars stored inside including another '68 Charger, a pair of '70 Cudas, a Dart, a Valiant, a Plymouth Arrow drag car, etc, etc...

I'm somewhat disappointed that we won't be completing the setup of the efi ourselves but sort of relieved that they'll be using their dyno to dial it in.

We were getting close. The car started easily, sounded good, and seemed to be responding to the self learning process it was supposed to go through. whether or not we would have been able to squeeze all the power potential out of it on our own was doubtful. I guess it was time to turn the reins over to the tuner guys.

Maybe I'll get to the 'Cuda tomorrow.

keep us posted on what he does and recommends, and how it turns out, and the diff. before and after. may be a huge learning tool to the rest of us fast owners !!

 

[1967 'cuda]

I think the odds of ANY home-tuner to get to the same result as a professional with a dyno and experience with the equipment are zero.

X2.. I love F.I.,Mopar provided only a couple programs,for the 300-380 Magnum crates. Mopar Action pushed hard for that,and finally got it. I know a couple old time hot rodders: one embraced the dyno roller(likes 5.0/4.6 engine swaps..), The other embraced multiple passes on the Vericom 2000 ( yes ,one still works nowadays..), with his carbed setups.(Rats,SBC& wedge Mopar strokers..) One takes days to do it,the other takes hours,at a higher price: much quicker. That wide band O2,is a really good middle ground option.( never tried one,an option with time)...

I'm feeling old, tired, and worn out. When I was much younger I didn't have enough experience with cars to know what I was doing with them most of the time. I relied on the guys around that had been racers for advice and often bought used parts from them. Back in the day, - any increase in performance from stock was considered a success. It wasn't hard to feel like you were running with the big dogs when the fastest cars around were 12 second cars. I might not have been as fast as them but at least I felt competitive.

I'd taken a long vacation from working on cars after I got married and had children. My time was occupied by other things and I really didn't think I'd ever get back into the car hobby. It wasn't that I lost interest. I just didn't have the time or money to devote anymore.

It seemed as though the days of hotrodding were dying. New cars sucked and the old cars were disappearing. I got involved with computers and eventually the internet. One of my biggest joys was playing race simulation games and it re-kindled my interest in cars again. When I discovered that I could find classic iron for sale online it made me dream about possibly owning a musclecar again. - And when I learned that I could not only get hard to find parts online, but also find tons of information about building every aspect of a car - I was hooked. Like an addict, I couldn't get enough.

I started to feel as though there was nothing I couldn't do. - If I came across something I didn't know how to do - all I needed was the internet to show me the way. I may not have had the big bucks to make every dream a reality but I was able to do things I couldn't have done before. With access to the internet it was like having the world's largest library at my disposal. Every day was like being back in school and I was eager to learn.

But skip forward to today. Now I feel old. Sometimes it seems as though my brain is full and there's no capacity for new info. I'm struggling and getting discouraged. I've screwed up on basic things that make me angry with myself. The pushrod problem was a prime example. I should have caught that problem long ago. I can't help but feel that turning the efi over to someone else to finish is another failure on my part. I concede that dyno tuning is far superior to tuning by ear but nonetheless I feel that most others would have gotten the car done quicker and with far fewer mistakes.

I'm always grateful to all you guys on this site that have offered advice and encouragement. It's kept me in the game.

 

[1967 'cuda]

keep us posted on what he does and recommends, and how it turns out, and the diff. before and after. may be a huge learning tool to the rest of us fast owners !!

The Roadrunner has been a really disorganized build. Maybe I shouldn't even refer to it as a build project. It'd probably be more accurate to describe it as a car that we've been throwing parts at in an attempt to increase power. There are so many things about it that we should know but don't. We didn't build the motor and the guy Spencer bought it from didn't know any of the engine specs. We don't know cam profile, compression, or how much it's been bored.

I felt like an idiot when we took the car in and they started asking us questions about it. Adding the headers was a no brainer in an attempt to increase exhaust flow. We threw the heads on it as an afterthought simply because we had them around and had no other place to use them. We never considered the effect on compression ratio and have tried to guess at what we have based upon some calculations my son made. We're thinking it's around 9.5 to 1.

I don't know how many details we'll get from the shop when we pick up the car. I'll try to document everything I can. When I post on this thread it's partially so we have a timeline of changes that we can go back to ourselves to see what we've done and when we've done them. I know from reading other forums that others have been having tuning issues with their FAST systems. I doubt that we'll be able to provide a definitive guide but we'll give as much info as we can.

 

[Cuda68Scott]

John, I am actually the chapter president of Arizona's "Feeling Old with Diminishing Brain Absorption Capability Association", or something similar to that, can't remember the name for sure. Anyway, you would not even qualify to fill out an application. You are doing fine, and I believe you run circles around me and most folks I know. Time for my nap if I can remember where my pillow is....

But skip forward to today. Now I feel old. Sometimes it seems as though my brain is full and there's no capacity for new info. I'm struggling and getting discouraged. I've screwed up on basic things that make me angry with myself.

 

[1967 'cuda]

John, I am actually the chapter president of Arizona's "Feeling Old with Diminishing Brain Absorption Capability Association", or something similar to that, can't remember the name for sure. Anyway, you would not even qualify to fill out an application. You are doing fine, and I believe you run circles around me and most folks I know. Time for my nap if I can remember where my pillow is....

Thanks Scott. I don't think I've ever heard of the F.O.D.B.A.C.A. before, but then again, I may have just forgotten it.

I really doubt I'm up to par with most members here. It probably seems like I am because I've managed to glom onto a bunch of Mopars. Any fool can buy a classic car. It's knowing how to properly fix, maintain, and modify them that separates the smarter guys from me. I'm feeling as if I've been working above my pay grade for some time. If it was true that you learn from your mistakes I would have been a genius a long time ago.

- Really been feeling down the past few days. There's a swap meet Sunday. Maybe if I go to it - it'll cheer me up.

 

[360DartGT66]

Hang in there John. Prolonged winter can take the wind out of anyone. I know.

Besides, you more than compensate for any lack of car restoration wizardry with your fantastic sense of humor and literary skills.

Whenever I see that you've posted, I knock my coffee cup over whipping my mouse to click on the thread.

Oh, and if you find any Shelby Slot mag center caps on that swap meet, get them for me, will you?

 

[1967 'cuda]

Hang in there John. Prolonged winter can take the wind out of anyone. I know.

Besides, you more than compensate for any lack of car restoration wizardry with your fantastic sense of humor and literary skills.

Whenever I see that you've posted, I knock my coffee cup over whipping my mouse to click on the thread.

Oh, and if you find any Shelby Slot mag center caps on that swap meet, get them for me, will you?

Sorry to go off on one of my whiny tirades Anders. - But when your buddies are running around with original Sixpack Superbees, AAR Cudas, Hemi cars, and the like - it's hard to feel like you're in the same class they are. Top that off by visiting that rare musclecar museum last week and then going to that speed shop the other day and I felt I was getting about as much respect as a Prius at the dragstrip. I could have weathered that OK but having made as many mistakes as I have recently - really made me feel inept.

I'm not certain which style of center caps you need. I know they made some that looked like knock off centers but I believe they made some that were more generic. How do they attach? Do they push in from the backside or are they the style that bolt on from the front? If I knew the diameter it would help. I'd gladly pick you up a set if I came across some and knew exactly what you needed & wanted.

 

[1967 'cuda]

The swap meet was a bust. I didn't really see anything too exciting. Mopar parts were scarce but a few rust-free body panels showed up at decent prices.

There was a right fender for a '70 Coronet selling for $80, a left fender for a '70 Challenger for $120, a '68 Roadrunner right door, a '69 Roadrunner right door, and a pair of '69 Roadrunner fenders.

Someone trailered in a '70 Barracuda Grand Coupe that was really crusty and missing the drivetrain & interior. Even the roof was rotted out. They were asking $7500 for it.

Other than that all I saw were some Mopar rally wheels and an AAR style hood for the newer Chargers.

Anders, I struck out on finding any wheel center caps other than factory GM pieces.

The only things I came home with were a hedge trimmer, some HOTROD magazines, and some tie-down straps for the trailer.