Another opinion question

-
looks like mine's cheaper than moper's

something to keep in mind

but yeah definately stick with a 904, it's THE small block racing transmission as far as i'm concerned
 
greaserkid,
Sorry I didn't get back before this but you've said the same things that I was going to say but some things are different, it's a M-1 and not W-2, KB 107s not 105s, not a rebuilt 904 valve body, but a rebuilt for racing 904 and a manual valve body(Tranz-Act)
I'm NOT hammering you just making sure that it's right, and yes it's way cheaper than the others.
For instance back in the 70s-80s we didn't have all the parts that are available now and they ran in the 11's and 10's and 9's, so why do we have to have these parts to do the same job now? I understand durability, but did mopars ever have a problem with there enignes? Running 11's 10's or 9's that really needed these options? Were only talking 550-600 HP here. If you think that you need H- Beam rods and billiet main caps and 4340 cranks, and forged pistons then I missed something some where.
I use good stock cranks, stock rods as they are 1053 steel and the 440s are 4340 so I don't see the difference for low or medium HP engines. The caps are good to 600 + HP before they walk when done right, and to this I've even went higher and not had any problems, so IMO I just can't see the justification for these parts.
I'm not hitting anyone but you have to make your own choices and buy what you want. I do compete against alot of high dollar cars and engines and they can't believe it when they get there butts handed to them repeatedly.
Glad you paided attention greaserkid!


BJR Racing
 
BJR why do you want a manual valve body on a 904? The rest I understand and sounds like a good combo.
 
MOPAR made it easy for us to go faster/quicker. :book: How about looking in the back of the old MOPAR Performance catalogs they used to show a part list for any engine for any E.T. Vehicle weight goal; cam specs; gearing; torque converter; headers; ETC.
 
DartDave...how about posting those pages on here for all of the younger guys that dont have old mopar performance catalogs....it would make a good resource for everyone.....
 
Wish I Knew how to. I'm still new to this internet stuff. Anyone else able to download this info?

I have a 2000 Mopar Performance Parts catalog and in the back there's about 10 page's called High Performance Tips. I don't know if they even print the catalog anymore.? :book:
 
Ok try this for thought straight out of the catalog.
For a 340 - 360 (12 sec. ET.)
9.5 - 1 cr.
cam P4120653 284/284 ad. dur. .528/.528 lift
head P4529589 ( no info in catalog- but2.02 valves rec'd for 13 sec )
Battery in trunk
man. valve body
Gear 4:30
ss springs
90-10 shocks
9" x 28" slicks
frame connectors

11.5 sec. ET: :book:

10 - 1 cr
better than pump gas
cam p4120655 296/296 ad.dur. .557/.557 lift
Vehicle weight 3200 or less
torque con. P5249553 (727) or P5249539 (904) both are 3800 stall

Hope this helps more than hurts. If you want mor details you could PM me at
[email protected]
 
Also to if the smaller valves are kept in the heads the car will 60ft and et faster, the heads are a bowl cut earily casting with a valve job. They didn't do any porting to them, this is why they used the 2.02 valves as help out with the flow. But if the heads were used with the smaller valves and ported the head would be better than the head listed. That head only flows around 220cfms, and the race ported head flows 275cfm. We have already done better than this with 1.88 valves and better in the low lifts. The combos that they list will get you in the et bracket that they say and more, then if you have a good chassis you will even go faster with the same engine.


BJR Racing
 
BJR, we differ on opinions for the heads, which is no big deal. I agree that factory parts could be used, but the 4" arm isnt a factory part. The stock caps can take 600hp without moving, but not witha 4" stroke. At that point, the cheap crank is flexing a lot, and the mains will move. a N/A 340 will make 600hp easy, but not at 5500rpm like the 4" crank will. added stress means better stuff..just the way it needs to be, to stay in good shape. The pistons speeds with the 4" arm are much higher than a 3.31, and a bit higher than a 3.58. Hyper pistons are at their limit with the 360 at 7K rpm. The forged pistons are needed for the 4" to be safe at 6500 on a regular basis. H beams in decent form (meaning better materials, but not as good finish machining) are $300 a set. It cost me $70 for ARP bolts, plus the resizing for 150, plus narrowing the top end for some pistons to fit. And that gives me a 30-40 year old casting, that is no stronger except for the bolts. For under $100 more, I can have longevity, and peice of mind the factory rod cant give. It make sense to spend it."back in the day" MP had quality parts..that was a long time ago, and for the most part, the old V8s parts are either not available, way overpriced because of MP's dealer pricing structure, or just plain "not available, see us in 3 months.." I had accounts at several dealerships for parts..but having valve springs that loose tension in one season (up here thats 4-5 months), leaf springs that sag 3" (not settling..sagging)after 5 mths, and cams that need 8* of keyway just to get to where MP recommends is not a quality part. Mega blocks that sonic check to be .020 thick if you bore to the max 4.5", and are like trying to find a needle in a haystack because they cant find a decent foundry.. It's now easier to buy a used big block crate motor, and use only the block for a buildup. Sorry for the MP rant, but I'll take the aftermarket stuff, and the assumed "fixing" until MP gets back to supporting us with decent parts. So, there are cheaper alternatives..there always are. Just a question of how you feel about things really.
 
Moper, I agree that we differ on alot of things, it seems that you as alot of other people want to use a 4" stoke crank. But the reason that you have to use the other high dollar parts is the fact that the the rod angles are way out of wack and at the angles that you like to use causes the rods undue stress along with the cranks. If you would look at the cylinder walls after a few hard runs on the engine you would see that the cylinders aren't round anymore due to the side loading of the pistons and the crank loads. Yes adding a crank will add CI but your angle and position of the crank throw is in the wrong spot when the cylinders fire, which adds to the side loading of the cylinder walls. Also you will have to have a bigger volume cylinder head to accomidate the bigger CIs of the engine, with this your trading off the torque that the crankshaft makes for slow velocity in the heads, and now you need to run a bigger cam with more duration, thus getting radically away from the street engines that don't turn high rpms.
I learned along time ago to QUIT trying to reinvent what the engineers get paid alot of money to do, and use there knowledge that they give us against them, it's cheaper than making a new wheel. (if you follow me) Maybe this is why the 406s 414s and 416s don't run any faster than a good small block with good parts. Also the engines that you say that you can't find parts for, I generally get engines complete, so the good rods and cranks are already there and you don't have to look for them. The engines that I build don't generally have to be turned over 6000-6200rpms anyway and run in the 11s with ease on pump gas at 3100-3200 lbs. weather it's a 318,or a 360.
It's the combination of parts that makes the engines produce power and torque not just crankshafts and big valves.
But I guess that we'll just have to agree to disagree.



BJR Racing
 
BJR Racing said:
greaserkid,
Sorry I didn't get back before this but you've said the same things that I was going to say but some things are different, it's a M-1 and not W-2, KB 107s not 105s, not a rebuilt 904 valve body, but a rebuilt for racing 904 and a manual valve body(Tranz-Act)
I'm NOT hammering you just making sure that it's right, and yes it's way cheaper than the others.
For instance back in the 70s-80s we didn't have all the parts that are available now and they ran in the 11's and 10's and 9's, so why do we have to have these parts to do the same job now? I understand durability, but did mopars ever have a problem with there enignes? Running 11's 10's or 9's that really needed these options? Were only talking 550-600 HP here. If you think that you need H- Beam rods and billiet main caps and 4340 cranks, and forged pistons then I missed something some where.
I use good stock cranks, stock rods as they are 1053 steel and the 440s are 4340 so I don't see the difference for low or medium HP engines. The caps are good to 600 + HP before they walk when done right, and to this I've even went higher and not had any problems, so IMO I just can't see the justification for these parts.
I'm not hitting anyone but you have to make your own choices and buy what you want. I do compete against alot of high dollar cars and engines and they can't believe it when they get there butts handed to them repeatedly.
Glad you paided attention greaserkid!


BJR Racing
Click to expand...


oh yeah man, i wrote down everything you told me & saved it in 2 different places.
 
BJR Racing said:
But I guess that we'll just have to agree to disagree.



BJR Racing
Click to expand...


Not a problem...lol..I'm still waiting to try some of the valve size ideas on the bench I have access to. Just need the $$ for the valve jobs and parts on the test heads. I have a set of 915s, and a set of 302s I'll be testing, from original as removed from the engine, to finished, larger valves and what I would call "stage 2" porting. I'll post it all when I do it, but it may be a while. I also need to buy the larger bore tubes..the bench came from a motorcycle guy, and they are all tiny for what I'm doing...lol What size bore were you testing with anyway?.
 
I use 4.00 and 4.50 bore sizes as these are the two most common around here. Without knowing what I've done you should be about 25-30 cfms less with the same size valves. The 2.02s should be in the 250 range and the 1.88s should be in the 240 -250 cfm range.
4.00 for small blocks and 4.50 for big blocks.

BJR Racing
 
Hey I think this thread has kind of run it's course and I got alot more good information then I ever thought I would. I just wanted to add another post to say thanks again to everybody and all their good ideas. I have a much better idea of which way I want to go with my car now. I just hope I can have it done by sprng. :salut:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
-

Back
Top