Borgeson Power Steering Thoughts....

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The difference in feel between the rebuilt or even low mileage Mopar chuck and the Borgeson is immediately evident once you drive the car.
It is like an 18 year old boob compared to an 80 year old one.
 
I'm really intrigued with the electronic power assist. I have to wonder what the steering effort is like with an electrical or more so a mechanical failure.
If you like the feel of a fresh tight 16:1 manual box when you are rolling down the road at speed, you could have that same feel with power assist at lower speeds with Electric Power Assisted Steering.

You can set how much "Assist, Feel or Feedback" you want with the provided potentiometer.

The steering shaft is still directly connected from the steering wheel to the steering box, just with an electric motor inline. The electric motor assists the shaft in turning.

In case of an electric failure, you just have manual steering again...

There are Sensors that measure input force (Steering wheel input) and resistance (moving the Tires on pavement).
In a straight line, no assist is needed so none is provided. Also no current draw at the motor since it isn't providing any assist. Assist is all "On Demand" or idle...
At slow speed, like when parking, when there is more resistance to the tires turning, the electric motor provides more assist... The amount of assist is given can be adjusted to the amount you prefer.
The potentiometer, (like a volume knob) looks a little like the old "Fader" knob in some of our old cars... Want it to feel like manual? turn it all the way down. Want to steer with one finger? turn the assist all the way up.

I can't say how this particular setup feels yet because it is still not on the road... :-(

But I'm pretty confident from all the research I did before making the decision to go this route.
In fact, so much so I sold my brand new never used Borgerson box since I decided to go electric.

Saves weight over hydraulic PS, saves horsepower over hydraulic PS, no PS belts, no PS pulleys, no PS pump, no PS reservoir, no PS hoses, no PS fluid, no PS leaks.
Does require electrical current and grafting the EPAS to your steering column.

I've driven several modern rental cars with electric power steering. It's pretty common on a lot of newer cars.
In cars that give you a selection of "Steering Settings" like sport or comfort, I'd guess most are Electric.
Takes a bit of getting used to a new BMW in sport mode, feels a bit twitchy... my daily is a 1 ton diesel crew cab 4x4.

EPAS + Ididit Tilt Column for our 69 6.1 Hemi Barracuda
1706772390141.png


The original column that came out of the car.
Only reused the mounting collar and modified mounting bracket from the old column.
1706772564936.png


What you see under the hood.
1706773122574.png

If it weren't a 6.1 Hemi, it could easily be a 100% stock steering column adapted to the EPAS inside and out. There was no way a stock column would clear the valve cover or the header in my build. EPAS solved a lot of challenges and provided a nice PS solution with a 16:1 Manual Firm Feel Mopar box.

I chopped up the old column to do all my test fitting. Made my own firewall plate so I could move the pass-through hole a little bit, for a little more clearance. The factory steering coupler is still to big to clear the header though.
A collapsible steering shaft is still achieved by using a telescopic 3/4" double D inside a 1" double D
There is a bearing in the firewall plate for the 1" DD.

Should have this car on the road this year.

1706773865966.png
 
I should explain my Firm Feel post #53.Much higher cost of using the Firm Feel.
Yes when compared to the Borgeson you are better off for a price point along with a superior product.
 
Being a cheapskate, I am happy with my $5 seal fix on my stock PS box and I am going to spend my money on a sway bar, offset bushings and new shocks. I am getting old, like my power steering & drive like a sissy most of the time anyway….
 
I put new bearings seals in my original manual 16:1 box many years ago. Zero slop on center none. But I am a grandpa now converting my car to Borgeson PS and putting AC back in so when I drive to grocery store its nice and comfy.
 
To add to this post, I as well love the manual steering box feel when I'm on the road going highway speeds.
Now that I've had some major problems with my shoulders in the last 10 years, I am looking to upgrade my steering to power steering.
I do have all of the parts needed to convert to factory power steering, but I find the feel as vague at best on the highway.
I have considered the Borgeson kit for my '69 Dart with a 340 and manual steering, but I wonder if it will fit my car.
I have Doug's headers and a factory K-member with the factory puck style mounts in my car.
Does anyone have a definitive answer to this application?
I'm calling @BergmanAutoCraft or @BORGESON or @Oldmanmopar for help.
This in not an intended highjack Rob, but some info that others can use.
I know that they are expensive, but pay once and cry once comes to mind...
 
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To add to this post, I as well love the manual steering box feel when I'm on the road going highway speeds.
Now that I've had some major problems with my shoulders in the last 10 years, I am looking to upgrade my steering to power steering.
I have considered the Borgeson kit for my '69 Dart with a 340 and manual steering, but I wonder if it will fit my car.
I have Doug's headers and a factory K-member with the factory puck style mounts in my car.
Does anyone have a definitive answer to this application?
I'm calling @BergmanAutoCraft or @BORGESON or @Oldmanmopar for help.
This in not an intended highjack Rob, but some info that others can use.
I know that they are expensive, but pay once and cry once comes to mind...
I bought a Borgeson kit from Bergman Auto Craft. I have stock k frame, stock motor mounts, TTI step headers. The Borgeson box clears headers no dents needed. I do have motor mount shims, two on drivers side, one on pass side. Shims were put on years back to get engine in correct location so TTI headers clear everything. Note factory k frame tolerances are very sloppy dope smoking hippies in '60s hand welding them up as fast as they could.

Peter at Bergman had to locate obsolete PS pump pulley so I could use stock '69 3 groove AC crank pulley. Only glitch is PS pump reservoir return line hit Edelbrock heads so PS pump sent back to Bergman to get return tube on reservoir relocated to side. So waiting pattern on PS pump issue.

PXL_20240127_211440076.MP.jpg


PXL_20240127_211709670.jpg


PXL_20240125_211647980.jpg
 
I bought a Borgeson kit from Bergman Auto Craft. I have stock k frame, stock motor mounts, TTI step headers. The Borgeson box clears headers no dents needed. I do have motor mount shims, two on drivers side, one on pass side. Shims were put on years back to get engine in correct location so TTI headers clear everything. Note factory k frame tolerances are very sloppy dope smoking hippies in '60s hand welding them up as fast as they could.

Peter at Bergman had to locate obsolete PS pump pulley so I could use stock '69 3 groove AC crank pulley. Only glitch is PS pump reservoir return line hit Edelbrock heads so PS pump sent back to Bergman to get return tube on reservoir relocated to side. So waiting pattern on PS pump issue.

View attachment 1716200569

View attachment 1716200570

View attachment 1716200571
Thanks for the response, but my headers are Doug's not TTIs.
It's great that they went over backwards to make it work for your application.
I have the crank pulley, the previous owner converted to manual from power steering in the past, and I have all of the brackets etc. associated to convert to factory p/s...
 
Thanks for the response, but my headers are Doug's not TTIs.
It's great that they went over backwards to make it work for your application.
I have the crank pulley, the previous owner converted to manual from power steering in the past, and I have all of the brackets etc. associated to convert to factory p/s...
Usually the header clearance problems are with big blocks based on research I have done. I wasn't able to find ppl complaining about Borgeson hitting small block headers.
 
The difference in feel between the rebuilt or even low mileage Mopar chuck and the Borgeson is immediately evident once you drive the car.
It is like an 18 year old boob compared to an 80 year old one.
That seems like a viable comparison. I'll just have to take your word on that.
 
Being a cheapskate, I am happy with my $5 seal fix on my stock PS box and I am going to spend my money on a sway bar, offset bushings and new shocks. I am getting old, like my power steering & drive like a sissy most of the time anyway….
That's probably what I will end up doing is just getting a stock gear box. I just need to find one.
 
I just checked with Firm Feel. Their rebuilt box is $750 + core charge + shipping.
3 cars I swapped from power to manual, I didn't save a thing. :BangHead:
Oh well,, that's how it goes...
Isn't it $750 before the $250 core return? So $500? Thats how it reads on there website, maybe I'm wrong?
 
That's probably what I will end up doing is just getting a stock gear box. I just need to find one.
Last July I searched and found a Rebuilt PS box in classified section that was a year old. Pm'ed him and he still had it. He even knocked $50 bucks off it. This squirrel found a nut for a change.
 
Last July I searched and found a Rebuilt PS box in classified section that was a year old. Pm'ed him and he still had it. He even knocked $50 bucks off it. This squirrel found a nut for a change.
LOL That's pretty funny. I stopped by my friend's transmission shop yesterday and he gave me one. So I am almost all set. All I need to do now is get a power steering shaft or cut mine.
 
I know you're wanting to get away from that but somewhere on one of the forums (I forget which) I saw an original manual box for free, if you pick up or just pay shipping.
As for borgenson Ive only ever used their steering shaft components. I've used the shaft they sell for the D/W trucks and I had to build a shaft for my 96 Dakota 4wd (back then they had a gearbox on 4wd instead of a rack) because I couldn't find a new original one... Discontinued.
And any at the junkyard, if they were missing anything they were missing that.
 
LOL That's pretty funny. I stopped by my friend's transmission shop yesterday and he gave me one. So I am almost all set. All I need to do now is get a power steering shaft or cut mine.
Change the input shaft seal while it is out. Hate to have it leak after installing it.
 
If you like the feel of a fresh tight 16:1 manual box when you are rolling down the road at speed, you could have that same feel with power assist at lower speeds with Electric Power Assisted Steering.

You can set how much "Assist, Feel or Feedback" you want with the provided potentiometer.

The steering shaft is still directly connected from the steering wheel to the steering box, just with an electric motor inline. The electric motor assists the shaft in turning.

In case of an electric failure, you just have manual steering again...

There are Sensors that measure input force (Steering wheel input) and resistance (moving the Tires on pavement).
In a straight line, no assist is needed so none is provided. Also no current draw at the motor since it isn't providing any assist. Assist is all "On Demand" or idle...
At slow speed, like when parking, when there is more resistance to the tires turning, the electric motor provides more assist... The amount of assist is given can be adjusted to the amount you prefer.
The potentiometer, (like a volume knob) looks a little like the old "Fader" knob in some of our old cars... Want it to feel like manual? turn it all the way down. Want to steer with one finger? turn the assist all the way up.

I can't say how this particular setup feels yet because it is still not on the road... :-(

But I'm pretty confident from all the research I did before making the decision to go this route.
In fact, so much so I sold my brand new never used Borgerson box since I decided to go electric.

Saves weight over hydraulic PS, saves horsepower over hydraulic PS, no PS belts, no PS pulleys, no PS pump, no PS reservoir, no PS hoses, no PS fluid, no PS leaks.
Does require electrical current and grafting the EPAS to your steering column.

I've driven several modern rental cars with electric power steering. It's pretty common on a lot of newer cars.
In cars that give you a selection of "Steering Settings" like sport or comfort, I'd guess most are Electric.
Takes a bit of getting used to a new BMW in sport mode, feels a bit twitchy... my daily is a 1 ton diesel crew cab 4x4.

EPAS + Ididit Tilt Column for our 69 6.1 Hemi Barracuda
View attachment 1716200442

The original column that came out of the car.
Only reused the mounting collar and modified mounting bracket from the old column.
View attachment 1716200443

What you see under the hood.
View attachment 1716200445
If it weren't a 6.1 Hemi, it could easily be a 100% stock steering column adapted to the EPAS inside and out. There was no way a stock column would clear the valve cover or the header in my build. EPAS solved a lot of challenges and provided a nice PS solution with a 16:1 Manual Firm Feel Mopar box.

I chopped up the old column to do all my test fitting. Made my own firewall plate so I could move the pass-through hole a little bit, for a little more clearance. The factory steering coupler is still to big to clear the header though.
A collapsible steering shaft is still achieved by using a telescopic 3/4" double D inside a 1" double D
There is a bearing in the firewall plate for the 1" DD.

Should have this car on the road this year.

View attachment 1716200447
I’m wondering how this setup is coming along. I’m interested in finding more about the electric steering option. Yours is the only thing I’ve seen so far. I’m about to send my car to a restoration shop for some fairly major work and would like to decide if electric power steering is an option I should pursue. I’m 73 and the manual steering is less fun every year. My car is a 1971 Duster with a 318 and manual 3-speed.
 
I’m wondering how this setup is coming along. I’m interested in finding more about the electric steering option. Yours is the only thing I’ve seen so far. I’m about to send my car to a restoration shop for some fairly major work and would like to decide if electric power steering is an option I should pursue. I’m 73 and the manual steering is less fun every year. My car is a 1971 Duster with a 318 and manual 3-speed.
Wish I had some new news but we got a new puppy! Between the new puppy (I am in Full time training mode), some home improvement projects and summer camping season (RV camping) I haven't really touched the car in months... "¯\_(ツ)_/¯"
Plus our RV season is extended through the end of October this year so... ;-) oh well.
 
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