You're right.. tighter clearances for thinner oil to keep that system happy. But on the flip side.. not all had MDS, but kept the same spec. Lighter oil is also more efficient etc
Butters "Winter Upgrades". . Starting a Little Early
- Thread starter Dantra
- Start date
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Back to this.. I tried my new dial bore gauge last night. It's sensitive! 10 marks on it are equal to 1 mark on my other gauge. What I was coming up with was right around .0018.. maybe .0017. But I did compare every weapon of measurement that I have.. my .001 db gauge, .0001 db gauge, .002-.005 red plastige and the .001-.003 green plastigage. Really splitting hairs across the board. They're all close to each other but minute differences. Maddening! I have to trust the .0001 db gauge, since it's the most accurate. I've got a set of +.001 bearings hitting the door today and a set of 6.4 std hitting the door Saturday. I really hate that I can't use what came with the kit but it is what it is. Even if they were the right gap, they're still not the correct 2 hole 6.4 version. Even tho they'd probably be fine, my brain just would not accept it. I'll wait for the standards to hit, install them and check the gap. If they are still reading under .002, I'll have to do the split bearing and use the lower halves of the 1 over set. Right now, if used a 1 over with these readings, it would put me above 25. With a little luck (pfft) I wont need to open the 1 over set. So $300 later (not including the set I returned and awaiting credit, hoping to not get dinged for a restock fee)... I might get this thing buttoned up. Still have the daunting task of gapping rings. Rod bearings seem to be in spec.
DionR
Well-Known Member
And then a third break when the 58 tooth ring changed again.
The later sensor can't read the earlier 58 tooth ring, but the early 58 tooth sensor can read the later ring, so there is that advantage.
Yup.. teeth got taller around 12/13.
My new main bearings came in Saturday afternoon and I was able to resume putting this thing together. The MS2296Hs were fine, right outta the box. They actually came in a little better than the original set and I didn't need to do a split bearing. So the .001 set that came in a few days earlier can back and save me about 150 bucks. All of the main clearances came in at .0022 - .0023, which was within my target range.
Once I had the crank sat down in place, I moved on to spending more time on checking the rod bearings. Last weekend, I tossed a rod/bearing together and did some initial checking and thought I was going to be fine (over .002). As it turns out, I was a little light on my bolt stretch/torque, which has some effect on that... plus I forgot to lube my bolts, during that initial check. Add in the slight variations in journals and in the bearings and I'm actually under .002, coming in at .0017 -.018 on the few that I checked.. and plasitgauged one to verify readings. Such a fine line between feeling good about it and measuring everything repeatedly, trying to feel better. So, it looks like I'll be using split bearings here.. Once again, waiting on the next set of bearings to come.
I moved on to gapping the rings. I absolutely hate gapping rings.. the top ring mostly. I did set them at .028 because you just never know what's in the future. I'd rather be a little loose anyway.
After the rings, OCD was still in motion, so I went ahead and began scaling out the rod/piston combos. It's just something I've always wanted to do and I really don't know that it makes all that much difference. By finding lightest piston and pairing with heaviest rod yada yada, I was able to get down to a 1.59 gram difference between the heaviest assembly to the lightest.. including pin. Pins were really close.. 139-139.36. Worst case if I had just slapped it together and the lightest rod found the lightest piston, heaviest rod to heaviest piston, would have been a 4.34 gram difference between combos. Splitting hairs..
I did slip some rings onto #7 and OMG.. the expansion/oil rings can eat a bag of d!cks! Just downright maddening. Popped it into the bore for the plastigauge check and then one more block clearance check. I'll pop it back out when the new bearings get here.
I'm off next week, so I should be able to wrap the shortblock up. Heads are in the shop getting some pac springs and freshened up.. probably another week or two. The ship date for the Mellings oil pump keeps getting pushed out.. 2/7/25. I may just cancel it and go back to the Hellcat pump.
Once I had the crank sat down in place, I moved on to spending more time on checking the rod bearings. Last weekend, I tossed a rod/bearing together and did some initial checking and thought I was going to be fine (over .002). As it turns out, I was a little light on my bolt stretch/torque, which has some effect on that... plus I forgot to lube my bolts, during that initial check. Add in the slight variations in journals and in the bearings and I'm actually under .002, coming in at .0017 -.018 on the few that I checked.. and plasitgauged one to verify readings. Such a fine line between feeling good about it and measuring everything repeatedly, trying to feel better. So, it looks like I'll be using split bearings here.. Once again, waiting on the next set of bearings to come.
I moved on to gapping the rings. I absolutely hate gapping rings.. the top ring mostly. I did set them at .028 because you just never know what's in the future. I'd rather be a little loose anyway.
After the rings, OCD was still in motion, so I went ahead and began scaling out the rod/piston combos. It's just something I've always wanted to do and I really don't know that it makes all that much difference. By finding lightest piston and pairing with heaviest rod yada yada, I was able to get down to a 1.59 gram difference between the heaviest assembly to the lightest.. including pin. Pins were really close.. 139-139.36. Worst case if I had just slapped it together and the lightest rod found the lightest piston, heaviest rod to heaviest piston, would have been a 4.34 gram difference between combos. Splitting hairs..
I did slip some rings onto #7 and OMG.. the expansion/oil rings can eat a bag of d!cks! Just downright maddening. Popped it into the bore for the plastigauge check and then one more block clearance check. I'll pop it back out when the new bearings get here.
I'm off next week, so I should be able to wrap the shortblock up. Heads are in the shop getting some pac springs and freshened up.. probably another week or two. The ship date for the Mellings oil pump keeps getting pushed out.. 2/7/25. I may just cancel it and go back to the Hellcat pump.
racerjoe
Well-Known Member
Love the attention to detail Dan. This thing is going to be a monster! I didn't mic anything on my 5.7. I put it back the way I found it. If it was good enough for the chrysler assembly line, its good enough for me....lol
I really enjoy it and hate it at the same time. There's alot of details to this one and if I hadn't really dug in and did a ton of homework, I might have overlooked some pretty important steps.. If you look at the rod, you'll see that the journal bore is chamfered. That's only on one side of the rod and it needs to face the counterweight. Also, the pistons are labeled D and S, which is a small blurry stamp on the bottom off the piston (valve relief). Obvious if you look at the piston tho. So they are directional and there is a left and a right. With the 2 of those details combined, you really have to pay attention to how you assemble the piston/rod sets. Something else these pistons have is the lower oil ring support because the piston pin actually passes through the lower rail. just something I've not dealt with before. Easy enough tho.
So many details and when all of them are combined.. The deep clean, slug assemblies, ring gaps, rod/main clearance, mixing bearings, rod bolt stretch and then questioning every detail repeatedly, even at times feeling like you need to take it apart and check it all over again... Dion can relate with these thoughts, I'm sure.
It's definitely not something that a guy is gonna toss together in a day or maybe even a weekend. I've had a few delays, waiting on parts but I've got plenty of time. The 5.7 in Hoopty went together much like yours. Everything looked great and it all just went together.. Bada bing, bada boom.
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DionR
Well-Known Member
While cleaning odds and ends, I disc that the TRX 90 degree oil filter adapter may not be ideal.. Unless you intend to run a cooler. With the ports blocked, it sends the oil through bypass. So I always had oil pressure.. Just a little lower than I expected.
DO NOT USE TRX HOUSING
DO NOT USE TRX HOUSING
So I've been lazy lately.. kinda. Had some other things around the house, over the weekend, that needed done and I'm mostly waiting for things to come in. We had a warm weekend and it was my last chance to get those damn helicopter, whirlybird things from maple trees out of my gutter guards.. They were insane this year. Never seen them this bad!
Anyway, things are in motion and just waiting. I was tempted to pull my steering column and start eliminating all the column shifter and indicator.. but decided to hold off until motor is wrapped up. I haven't totally researched disassembly and not totally sure how to mod the column in the engine bay. I'd like to make it like a standard column and move the bearing all the way up to the firewall, eliminating the shift lever... I'll figure it out, now's not the time tho.
Last week, while cleaning things up, I discovered that all of my coils were ****! I pulled all the boots and was going to add a little dielectric grease to everything and BAM. I couldn't believe just how bad they were. The old 6.4 was a 2019 with 32k-ish miles. It didn't come out of a wrecked car either.. was pulled for a Hellcat swap. I have no idea how I wasn't having misfires. Fortunately, I had another set on the shelf from the longblock that I bought.. the guy threw in a set of valve covers and the coils were much better.. still a little corrosion. So listen kids.. check your ****! They started adding resisters between the spring and coil around 2016(?) I was going to grab a set of earlier style boots and springs to eliminate the resisters, but everything cleaned up ok on the other set and it was 100-150 bucks that I didn't want to spend.
Earlier this week, I bought several AN fittings from Amazon, to try to find a way to make my TRX oil filter adapter work out. 1 of the 180 12an fittings was too wide but another was pretty damn close. Had to give it just a little squeeze in a soft jawed vice to make it work.. centerline was about 1/8 too wide. Unfortunately, I'll lose my (idiot) oil pressure switch that I had wired in to a plug that was previously in one of the ports. I may try to T where my added oil pressure gauge sending unit is. The oil cooler bypass looks like it'll work tho.. hope so. Really didn't want to spend another $200 for the Ram 1500 one.
This weekend, I should should be able to get the front and bottom sealed up.. FRP Trident Cam, HC lifters, timing chain, phaser lock, new cam bolt, TC gasket, HC oil pump are here (or will be today) and a New Edge street stall is ordered .. should stall around 3600. Heads with new PAC springs and Manley pushrods should be ready to go in/on in a week or so. So glad the old 6.4 sold last week lol. I've got a few weeks off coming up at the end of the month, so who knows, I may actually get it stabbed back in and start focusing on other details. I don't think I'll be able to slide it in with the 8hp attached like I did with the 904. It'll be nice to switch gears and move onto something else.
BTW, I have an extra set of new PAC 1232X valve springs if anybody needs a set.. make ya a FABO deal.
I'll upload some pics in a minute. Here's a video of what the FRP Trident sounds like...
Anyway, things are in motion and just waiting. I was tempted to pull my steering column and start eliminating all the column shifter and indicator.. but decided to hold off until motor is wrapped up. I haven't totally researched disassembly and not totally sure how to mod the column in the engine bay. I'd like to make it like a standard column and move the bearing all the way up to the firewall, eliminating the shift lever... I'll figure it out, now's not the time tho.
Last week, while cleaning things up, I discovered that all of my coils were ****! I pulled all the boots and was going to add a little dielectric grease to everything and BAM. I couldn't believe just how bad they were. The old 6.4 was a 2019 with 32k-ish miles. It didn't come out of a wrecked car either.. was pulled for a Hellcat swap. I have no idea how I wasn't having misfires. Fortunately, I had another set on the shelf from the longblock that I bought.. the guy threw in a set of valve covers and the coils were much better.. still a little corrosion. So listen kids.. check your ****! They started adding resisters between the spring and coil around 2016(?) I was going to grab a set of earlier style boots and springs to eliminate the resisters, but everything cleaned up ok on the other set and it was 100-150 bucks that I didn't want to spend.
Earlier this week, I bought several AN fittings from Amazon, to try to find a way to make my TRX oil filter adapter work out. 1 of the 180 12an fittings was too wide but another was pretty damn close. Had to give it just a little squeeze in a soft jawed vice to make it work.. centerline was about 1/8 too wide. Unfortunately, I'll lose my (idiot) oil pressure switch that I had wired in to a plug that was previously in one of the ports. I may try to T where my added oil pressure gauge sending unit is. The oil cooler bypass looks like it'll work tho.. hope so. Really didn't want to spend another $200 for the Ram 1500 one.
This weekend, I should should be able to get the front and bottom sealed up.. FRP Trident Cam, HC lifters, timing chain, phaser lock, new cam bolt, TC gasket, HC oil pump are here (or will be today) and a New Edge street stall is ordered .. should stall around 3600. Heads with new PAC springs and Manley pushrods should be ready to go in/on in a week or so. So glad the old 6.4 sold last week lol. I've got a few weeks off coming up at the end of the month, so who knows, I may actually get it stabbed back in and start focusing on other details. I don't think I'll be able to slide it in with the 8hp attached like I did with the 904. It'll be nice to switch gears and move onto something else.
BTW, I have an extra set of new PAC 1232X valve springs if anybody needs a set.. make ya a FABO deal.
I'll upload some pics in a minute. Here's a video of what the FRP Trident sounds like...
racerjoe
Well-Known Member
I didn't know those boots came off the coils. Guess I need to check mine now...
Yup, worth checking. Do some PM while you're there. My backup set had some light corrosion as well. I balled up some scotchbrite, crammed it down in the hole with some CRC QC contact cleaner and gave it several twists with a screwdriver to clean them up. Then a little goopity goop for prevention.
bjkadron
Well-Known Member
I will throw it out there that Cocoa-cola is marvelous for cleaning corrosion.
Map63Vette
Well-Known Member
I had a "once upon a time" column shift column in my car. By "once upon a time" I mean someone before me pulled part of the guts out of it, but not all. I believe the shift tubes and levers were still in it, but the actual shifter up at the column was nowhere to be found and just has a shroud that turns freely (and has an awful lot of bondo in it to cover up the hole it seems). I gutted it the rest of the way and pulled the shift tubes out when I did my swap. I didn't cut the housing all the way back to the firewall though. I'm trying to remember if I cut anything at all, but I want to say I just pulled the guts and put the bearing back in at the end. Now I'm going to have to pop the hood over lunch and take a look, lol.
DionR
Well-Known Member
I have to do a similar mod to my '73 since it was an auto on the column car. For what it's worth, I did some research on the bottom collar and started a thread.
Bottom collar for 4 speed key out function - auto to manual conversion
Don't think the above really matters to you though since you don't have the key lock? I want mine to work like my '74 so I really wanted the bottom collar to function.
You will probably need to pull the column to get the shift tube comes out as it is way too long to do it in the car. Maybe you can pull it out the top if you cut the stuff at the bottom off? Not sure, I will look at the tube I pulled out of one my spare columns.
They aren't hard to disassemble. Biggest issue is the later cars with the steering wheel lock since the lock plate has a pressed in pin that is difficult to pound out if you don't have the column on the bench. I had problems with the set screw that held the lower collar to the shift tube and had to drill it out but I wasn't planning to save the collar so it didn't really matter to me. Other than that, just some screws and snap rings. I really doubt you will have difficulty figuring it out.
Map63Vette
Well-Known Member
I guess I forget that "column shift" can mean auto or manual. I think my column was actually a manual shift column, though I'm really not that sure. The car was pretty pieced together when I bought it to begin with. I know I don't have any traces of the little shift indicator on the top of the column though, and I believe I had two or three tubes and arms that I pulled out, hence my guess at a manual shift column. I'm guessing there isn't a huge difference as far as bearings and overall construction, but I haven't seen enough to say.
Definitely agree with Dion though, it wasn't that hard to figure out. I did find a video just the other day where someone was restoring an automatic column in a 67 Barracuda I believe. Did a pretty good job of showing the full teardown and rebuild process. Essentially just two bearings in the whole thing. Fiddly parts are just dealing with the turn signal stuff and electronics.
Definitely agree with Dion though, it wasn't that hard to figure out. I did find a video just the other day where someone was restoring an automatic column in a 67 Barracuda I believe. Did a pretty good job of showing the full teardown and rebuild process. Essentially just two bearings in the whole thing. Fiddly parts are just dealing with the turn signal stuff and electronics.
I had to notch my tube when I first did the swap.. I'd like to see it all just go away
Pulling the column is no problem. 3 bolts and a set screw.. Bada Bing, bada boom. Thanks for the info
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Map63Vette
Well-Known Member
Here's a quick picture I snapped at lunch. The "benefit" of the column shift I had was the tube was already windowed for the shift levers, coincidentally right where my valve cover was, so it worked out well.
racerjoe
Well-Known Member
My column is of the 3 on the tree variety. I gutted all the internal shift tubes long ago and did similar chopping where the shift arm attached to the aluminum collar. That was a long time ago, like almost 30 years, but I think I epoxied a piece of aluminum in the hole and did some bodywork to make it disappear.
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