Crazy alignment problems

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No.... I know better LOL. IIRC: It took me a while to make sure I got it right the 1st time with stock t-bars. It also applied to an '03 Dakota that my son and I worked on; the LCA's had to be pulled waaaay down for proper t-bar clocking; my son did not do that 1st time, and the ride height could not be adjusted. He clocked them in with the LCA's close to level, and thought he did it right.

It has all been discussed here before. If anyone is interested, then search for 'clocking'; the info is there. I'd honestly be happy to understand another reason why the adjuster bolts look to be at full adjustment in (certainly abnormal), that the OP has them torqued 'as tight as he dares', and the t-bar cams are way above the LCA's (sure looks abnormal to me).

I am in agreement with you b6p: this does not change the tie-rods being waaay out of whack. But it does not look right at all, and needs to be fixed regardless, if it is wrong. There look to be multiple problems

BTW, the bumper being off the frame is just a reflection of the position of the LCA, regardless of what is taking the load. You could weld/bolt a solid bar in place of the shock with no t-bar in the car and the bumper could be in that position. So what is taking the load has nothing to do with the bumper position.
 
Only have looked at the latest pics on my phone but it would seem there is at least an 1” or more of toe out.
 
With a BB in it then the pitman and idle arms are likely not correct for the application. The only good BB pan is the 893 IMO. I run a Moroso and get a little rub but not a daily driver. The 893 is still in the box.
 
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looking at the pics some more I see it is BB. What pitman arm did you get? I still say regardless something is loose and or way wrong in initial adjustment.
 
So I finally have a day off where I can work on my car again. I’m still having the same issues as before.
I’ve centered the steering box (it was way off center)
I’ve readjusted the tie rods about 10 times just trying anything to fix the problems. I did it on reasonably flat loose dirt because I don’t have any smooth pavement or any steel plates as some have recommended.
I have basically maxed out the camber adjustments on the UCAs but it makes NO difference.
I drive it through the yard and around the driveway after each adjustment but the front end just keeps going way down and a ton of negative camber and toe out.
I’m pretty convinced that this Performance Online brake and spindle kit are f*cking me.
After I ordered and received kit, I realized that the stock size ball joints were way too small for this kit.
I called them and they told me that this kit requires their upper control arm and ball joint kit.
I was going to just return the brakes but after the shipping costs from Georgia to California and they’re restocking fees, it just made sense to order their control arms and ball joints.
Unless one of y’all can magically figure out what’s going on with this sh*t, I’ll probably just keep the car parked until I can get some real brakes and suspension.
Just to remind everyone of the parts I have,
ALL bushings have been replaced with poly bushings,
QA1 k-member,
Stock LCAs,
Stock strut rods,
Stock manual steering box,
Stock center link (it was in the car when I bought it so I assume it’s the correct one)
Moog tie rods and ends,
Moog pitman and idler arms
POL UCAs, Lower ball joints, spindles, and front brakes.
Here’s the links to the POL sh*t
1960-74 MOPAR-Dodge-Plymouth A-Body Tubular Upper Control Arm Kit with Ball Joints

1962-74 MOPAR, Dodge, Plymouth Disc Brake Conversion, Stock Height Spindles

Thanks everyone.
 
67/6barracuda said:
Oh man I have that same POL kit. I haven’t aligned mine yet either. I hope you figure it out. POL Front Disks Conversion w/Tubular A Arms
Click to expand...
Looking at your thread I’ve noticed that your calipers are on the opposite side of the spindle from my car. Maybe somehow I put them on the wrong side and it’s causing this? I guess I’ll look into it. Good luck with your alignment haha
 
A '68 torino owner described almost the same issue you have.
He also said he'd replaced everything in the front end a couple of years ago but hadn't driven the car 'till recently.
He also said he'd hear a clunk sound when the front end would shift.
He finally noticed his new pittman was sliding up and down when moving forward or backing up.
On his car it was radically changing the toe setting.
I'm telling you this to remind you not to assume that new parts can't be the problem!
So check everything again, lift the car and try to move each wheel, something is either broken or loose.
make sure the upper control arm attachment pieces are sill completely welded to the fender apron, I've seen these welds fail.
 
you will never get anywhere with the wheels loaded. they have got to be able to slide/ be unloaded.

get two jacks and put them under the lower arms as close to the wheel as possible. this is to to just get the wheel off the ground. It'll droop slightly but that doesn't matter at this point. get a piece of chalk and mark the tread in the middle on each tyre (tire :)). Move the wheels so the mark is at the rear to a point where a tape measure will go between the two wheels under the floor. measure then move the marks to the front (you will need an extra pair of hands). remeasure and hopefully you will have a 1/8 inch shorter measurement at the front. if not adjust the tracking.

this is only for a quick check and not ideal for proper adjustment.

if you still have a problem after this then obviously there is a major issue. the only way to find out is measure camber, caster and bump steer which will point you in the right direction.
 
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I think your right you got to switched both spindles around, my calipers face the rear of the car. But again I haven’t aligned it so I might be in the same boat with you. Haha
 
Craig Burriss said:
So I finally have a day off where I can work on my car again. I’m still having the same issues as before.
I’ve centered the steering box (it was way off center)
I’ve readjusted the tie rods about 10 times just trying anything to fix the problems. I did it on reasonably flat loose dirt because I don’t have any smooth pavement or any steel plates as some have recommended.
I have basically maxed out the camber adjustments on the UCAs but it makes NO difference.
I drive it through the yard and around the driveway after each adjustment but the front end just keeps going way down and a ton of negative camber and toe out.
I’m pretty convinced that this Performance Online brake and spindle kit are f*cking me.
After I ordered and received kit, I realized that the stock size ball joints were way too small for this kit.
I called them and they told me that this kit requires their upper control arm and ball joint kit.
I was going to just return the brakes but after the shipping costs from Georgia to California and they’re restocking fees, it just made sense to order their control arms and ball joints.
Unless one of y’all can magically figure out what’s going on with this sh*t, I’ll probably just keep the car parked until I can get some real brakes and suspension.
Just to remind everyone of the parts I have,
ALL bushings have been replaced with poly bushings,
QA1 k-member,
Stock LCAs,


Stock strut rods,
Stock manual steering box,
Stock center link (it was in the car when I bought it so I assume it’s the correct one)
Moog tie rods and ends,
Moog pitman and idler arms
POL UCAs, Lower ball joints, spindles, and front brakes.
Here’s the links to the POL sh*t
1960-74 MOPAR-Dodge-Plymouth A-Body Tubular Upper Control Arm Kit with Ball Joints

1962-74 MOPAR, Dodge, Plymouth Disc Brake Conversion, Stock Height Spindles

Thanks everyone.
Click to expand...
 
I think we have been here before but it really sounds to me that the lower control arm bushings are causing the problem. Did you put poly bushings in or rubber stock style bushings, My friends 69 barracuda had poly bushings and did the same thing you are describing, he said they look good and I told him to pull the arms off and check them and they were smashed out sloppy. He put in rubber ones and he said it drives like a new car.
 
Lots use the poly, not me but you have to leave the outer shell yes? Or install clean new outer shells.
 
Ok I just tore down the passenger side front end because this is just driving me insane. I noticed some things that are probably what’s causing all of this.
1st of all, thanks to 67/6Barracuda, I noticed when I threw the car together in a rush I put the spindles on the wrong sides. Since I have to swap the spindles around I decided to go ahead and check the LCA bushings and it’s looking like y’all were right. Somehow the inner sleev on the pivot arm got damaged and ate up the inside of the bushing.
And in the LCA where the bushing and torsion bar is inserted, it has a very small amount of play in it. Is the play supposed to be there or can I just weld it back up?
DA46B1D0-C162-4C47-B05D-037346519002.jpeg
B7FE9ED5-7FC4-4C48-98AC-73A04246F65B.jpeg
E4368EC3-6331-48CC-AA4F-F9A1E0B905E4.jpeg
0F385608-47FD-4AA7-8F87-3C1C8FCBB442.jpeg

I ran out of daylight before I could get to the driver side but I’m expecting it to look similar.
 
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Hmmm. Is that the inner shell still on the pivot pin? My understanding is outer shell only. Replacing with original rubber is my choice!
 
1969383S said:
Hmmm. Is that the inner shell still on the pivot pin? My understanding is outer shell only. Replacing with original rubber is my choice!
Click to expand...
Yes that’s the inner shell still on the pin. I think the bushings would have a ton of slop without them
 
Somebody will jump in. I have no personal experience with the poly but have read enough to stay OEM rubber.
 
I used rubber as well on the lower control arms. I had poly on my sway bar and they dry rotted and cracked all up in to tiny pieces that’s all I needed to see, rubber for now on.
 
67/6barracuda said:
I used rubber as well on the lower control arms. I had poly on my sway bar and they dry rotted and cracked all up in to tiny pieces that’s all I needed to see, rubber for now on.
Click to expand...

I have poly on my antisway and it has been fine since 2014.

For sure the end of his inner sleeve is rounded over and not good.

If I would choose poly LC bushings I would have done the new greasable pins.
 
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1969383S said:
I have poly on my antisway and it has been fine since 2014.

For sure the end of his inner sleeve is rounded over and not good.

If I would choose poly LC bushings I would have done the new greasable pins.
Click to expand...

I think this is where the issue comes from, I've had poly LCA bushings on my Duster for years with no issues BUT I made sure to install greasable pivot pins at the same time; IIRC the diameter of those pins is the same as the stock pivot pins with the inner sleeve installed. If you have to use a sleeve from an old rubber bushing on the pivot shafts to make it a tight fit (with no grease supply) in the poly bushings then yeah, they're gonna get destroyed. So if you're sticking with factory pivots, use rubber... if you want to use poly, you need aftermarket greasable pivot pins.

The poly bushings need a smooth lubed surface to rotate around, they aren't designed to flex and rotate with the LCA as it moves like the factory rubber bushings are.
 
My new rubber bushings came in, before I waste my time and ruin something, I just want to make sure I’m doing this right. I weld a washer onto the old bushing cup and drive it out of the LCA from the torsion bar side, then press the pivot pin into the new bushings, then press new bushings (with pivot pins in them) into the LCA?
0E2C2747-070E-435D-90CF-E13F5A1F0330.jpeg
 
Correct, I have a piece of pipe that is the same size as the bushing lip to press them in the arm, I also put a little gear oil on the outside of the bushing (metal part only) don't get it on the rubber, it will press into the arm a lot easier.

You can run a bead of weld down the inside of the old bushing and when it cools it will shrink the bushing and it will come out easier. Just don't burn through it.
 
Craig Burriss said:
My new rubber bushings came in, before I waste my time and ruin something, I just want to make sure I’m doing this right. I weld a washer onto the old bushing cup and drive it out of the LCA from the torsion bar side, then press the pivot pin into the new bushings, then press new bushings (with pivot pins in them) into the LCA?
View attachment 1715357960
Click to expand...

If have not you might consider welding on the stiffener plate and blast them first. I always have done pin first then press from the outer shell to install in the LCA, I find it the easiest way.
 
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