Dual quads versus big hammer!!!...

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I'm here where I'm safe. I'm following your progress.
Get them dual quads opened up and suck some of the unhealthy air.
 
318willrun said:
At what speed? IF your at 1800 rpms in 1st or 2nd it should take off. If you are at 1800 rpm's in 4th gear and mash it, you are making it more difficult but I still believe it shouldn't cough and do a major "cut-out", but it may be hesitant.
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Give me a few minutes sure I've got to eat dinner real quick..
 
j par said:
I'll be interested to get it to the track because when it's on like I said it's ON!!
my buddy just sent me a video of me taking off from his house that was only about 10 seconds long but it only took two for me to disappear!!:thumbsup:..
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We'll post up the video!!!!
 
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Ok, I tried to get pictures clear enough to read on this forum. I don't know if you have this book or not, so I figured I post it in case you don't have it.

You can read it, but I will give you my thoughts on it because, well...you know I just can't help myself.
 
So...I think you should go out and get some vacuum reading at a cruise. Then, set your springs to open a few numbers below what cruise vacuum is. For example, if you cruise vacuum is 15 inches, set your springs to open at say...11 inches and see what happens.

If your idle vacuum is say...only 9 inches, you can test to see if the metering rods being up at idle makes a difference (I don't think it will because the idle feed system is very similar to a Holley and the Holley guys have been getting it wrong for decades) or if it doesn't matter. I don't think it will matter.

You can tell by verifying your A/F ratio at idle with say...a spring that pulls the metering rods up a 6 inches of vacuum and compare that to the A/F ratio at idle with the 11 inch springs in it.

If I'm correct, the A/F ratio will be the same at idle with either spring in it it, and the higher spring number (pulling the metering rods out of the jets sooner) will help clean up the lean spot on cruise tip in.
 
fishmens67 said:
I'm here where I'm safe. I'm following your progress.
Get them dual quads opened up and suck some of the unhealthy air.
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plenty of threads about all that I like to talk about the car to get away from all those worries or concerns...
 
yellow rose said:
So...I think you should go out and get some vacuum reading at a cruise. Then, set your springs to open a few numbers below what cruise vacuum is. For example, if you cruise vacuum is 15 inches, set your springs to open at say...11 inches and see what happens.

If your idle vacuum is say...only 9 inches, you can test to see if the metering rods being up at idle makes a difference (I don't think it will because the idle feed system is very similar to a Holley and the Holley guys have been getting it wrong for decades) or if it doesn't matter. I don't think it will matter.

You can tell by verifying your A/F ratio at idle with say...a spring that pulls the metering rods up a 6 inches of vacuum and compare that to the A/F ratio at idle with the 11 inch springs in it.

If I'm correct, the A/F ratio will be the same at idle with either spring in it it, and the higher spring number (pulling the metering rods out of the jets sooner) will help clean up the lean spot on cruise tip in.
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have all day tomorrow so what it really boils down to is three more trips around the neighborhood. Springs in now and tomorrow plan on trying the green witch came with the carburetors. Then on to the pinks. And then one more try with the silver... Remember I went back down to those directional .031 Holley squirters.. I have the street demon 42's and 47's as well.
On top of that again I'm extremely interested to see what happens with those metering rods. Remember I have 62-54's in there now.. with 58-44's in the front and 58-50's in the back I'm interested to see if that doesn't do it when those rods do go up allowing much more fuel...
Screenshot_20200314-162114.png

This is how the Edelbrock dual quad 500 or setup..
 
318willrun said:
At what speed? IF your at 1800 rpms in 1st or 2nd it should take off. If you are at 1800 rpm's in 4th gear and mash it, you are making it more difficult but I still believe it shouldn't cough and do a major "cut-out", but it may be hesitant.
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Physically the higher the gear the higher the hesitant... I'm also under the timing curve at 1800 RPMs as well...
 
j par said:
Physically the higher the gear the higher the hesitant... I'm also under the timing curve at 1800 RPMs as well...
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it's like a highway gear and tight converter, exposes every imperfection of the carb (in your case carbs). If you roll along at 3000 rpms in first and mash it and it seems ok, that's just masking the issue. 3500 stall converters and 4.11 gears do the same for an automatic. If you stay with it, you'll tune the hesitation out, even at a low rpm. That's when you know it's set up right. Even though it's different, my car was kind of the same with the factory converter, 2.45 gears, and getting the 750 Double pumper to work from a dead idle mash. I got it with zero hesitation from a low idle mash, and you will too. Now, with 2.94's, consistent 1.8's. Don't hide it with rpm's and the clutch. Stay at it till it works. Sorry I don't have any suggestions for you as you are trying one thing after another.
 
I read this on an old thread on a forum a little bit ago about that air door..
If you decide to open the air door really really fast/early on then you will not have the airflow plus fuel at first in the back barrel. But put those 2 holes in the flapper and now the minute the back barrel blades open it will start air past those tubes even with the flapper shut and signalling for more fuel, just before the air door opens. Now you should have the fuel and air, at the same time, and no dip from it going lean. Pretty trick, and like the double pumpers using a second way, to get fuel into their secondaries instantly with a second set of shooters and accelerator pump, till the boosters get more there.
I should get mine Friday....
 
I liked this comment from another forum... slightly staggering the carburetors internally seems to be a recurring theme from different people..
Screenshot_20200318-210014.png
 
So hoping to get out and do a little more experimenting with these carburetors today. First I'll warm it up a little bit and take it for a drive and re remind myself where everything is at. Then I'd like to try some stronger step up Springs to see how they react. I have a much smaller set of metering rods I would like to try in the front carburetor as mentioned in the corded post from another forum above. It won't be till Tuesday till I'll have a semi matching set of rods...
Right now I have 62-54 rods in both.. after some spring changes and testing I may go back to 60-52 rods.. I have a set of 58-44 rods that just came in and they said 58-50 rods that should be here Tuesday...
I think I'd like to try something like in the above post that I copied where I put the 60-52 rods in the back with a Little bit stronger spring and the 58-44 rods in front with a little bit lighter spring.. and of course on Tuesday matching the rear carburetor with the 58 50 rods to keep the idle circuit even in the front and back...
 
Also the Holley tech line did say my spare rear air doors should be here today. Although I really am more interested and clearing up this primary circuit at this point...
 
Hi, did not read the entire thread….but had to deal with one of these carbs before. I noticed the arm for the accellerator pump is in a slot of the throttle Lever, no 1:1 movement when you get on the gas. That caused a stumble everytime…..i put a screw into the Slot to take up the space….now direct movement of the acc.pump arm when the throttle Lever is moving…..no more stumble or lean spot. Check it out!

Michael
 
360duster said:
Hi, did not read the entire thread….but had to deal with one of these carbs before. I noticed the arm for the accellerator pump is in a slot of the throttle Lever, no 1:1 movement when you get on the gas. That caused a stumble everytime…..i put a screw into the Slot to take up the space….now direct movement of the acc.pump arm when the throttle Lever is moving…..no more stumble or lean spot. Check it out!

Michael
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I see what you're saying I just looked at it. I noticed the slot there before but wouldn't think that it would have any effect. What I'm wondering now is if I don't just straighten that Rod out to be at the back of that slotted opening from the beginning??..
 
try the screw trough the Slot to "fix" it....so you don´t have to bend arms back to original if it does not work ;-)

Michael
 
ah ok, understand. But as far as i remember the throttle Lever had to move quite a bit before the acc.pump was activated in my case. So could still be that the acc. pump is your Problem.
 
360duster said:
ah ok, understand. But as far as i remember the throttle Lever had to move quite a bit before the acc.pump was activated in my case. So could still be that the acc. pump is your Problem.
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yes it's something that I've been watching very closely. It does seem to move with the leaver and pump immediately...
BUT, it does seem I can move that arm and hold it by hand and it will move without the pump shot if I hold it back again by hand. I see exactly what you're talkin about..
 
FINALLY A BREAKTHROUGH!!...
Watching very closely for what 360duster was talking about.. I took my first drive and just warmed the car up. Taking close observations of the AF gauge and paying attention to how it was performing.
And then went from the Orange Springs to the Green Springs that comes stock in the carburetors. I didn't observe anything different at idle but it seemed more sluggish and definitely did not have any positive effect on the hesitation...
Third try was a charm today... I put the Orange Springs back in and took out all of the 62-54 metering rods... I put the factory 60-52 metering rods in the rear carburetor and the set of 58-44 metering rods I received in the mail yesterday. The idle seemed almost a hair smoother and definitely I can tell there was some better throttle response.. then of course the big test was at Cruise and giving it a rather hard acceleration.. A VAST IMPROVEMENT!!... Now I'm not saying totally gone but 2/3 to 3/4 gone...
Tuesday I should be seeing those 58-50 metering rods I'd like to try in the back..
Right now I have the Holley 35 tube squirters.. I could possibly go to the 42's or the 47 I have as well... But I'd like to see what those metering rods do first...
Also I got these today so I might do a little drillin...
IMG_20200320_152902.jpg

:thumbsup:...
 
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Well I drilled them and put them on. It wasn't an easy process to take the old ones off and put the new ones on. That Rod that they're screwed to spring loaded.. the nice part is when I took it off I slowly let it rotate backwards and it was two full turns exactly. if I wasn't mistaken the front one was closer to three full turns so I was able to even them out when I put them back. Really there was no telling except for adjusting off of the stock setting... of course I took it for a test drive but it's mid-to-late afternoon and there's lots of traffic and I'm not looking for a ticket or anyting. The true test of this one will be a ride in the country or on the freeway. Again all the primary circuit settings were running pretty damn good...
Of course the ultimate ultimate test would be to take it to the track. If I see familiar numbers or better... There will be an Edelbrock and Carter performance for sale...
 
j par said:
View attachment 1715490325
Well I drilled them and put them on. It wasn't an easy process to take the old ones off and put the new ones on. That Rod that they're screwed to spring loaded.. the nice part is when I took it off I slowly let it rotate backwards and it was two full turns exactly. if I wasn't mistaken the front one was closer to three full turns so I was able to even them out when I put them back. Really there was no telling except for adjusting off of the stock setting... of course I took it for a test drive but it's mid-to-late afternoon and there's lots of traffic and I'm not looking for a ticket or anyting. The true test of this one will be a ride in the country or on the freeway. Again all the primary circuit settings were running pretty damn good...
Of course the ultimate ultimate test would be to take it to the track. If I see familiar numbers or better... There will be an Edelbrock and Carter performance for sale...
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That's progress. I think you can write off the track for awhile.
 
I took close to a 50 mile drive out in the country little highway mostly cruise speed... Of course without question a few wide open throttle shots like in 3rd gear and a little bit of City...
The wideband was showing hi 12's and low 13s at Cruise... It was looking like 11.5 or so at wide open throttle..
still some small flat spots at mid throttle but really this was just to kind of enjoy the car for a little while and get out of the house... I filled it up before I left and filled it up when I got back and used about four gallons for the 48 or so miles..
I checked the passenger side plugs again and they all look pretty much like this one...
IMG_20200322_135121.jpg
IMG_20200322_135102.jpg
 
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j par said:
I took close to a 50 mile drive out in the country little highway mostly crew speed... Of course without question a few wide open throttle shots like in 3rd gear and a little bit of City...
The wideband was showing hi 12's and low 13s at Cruise... It was looking like 11.5 or so at wide open throttle..
still some small flat spots at mid throttle but really this was just to kind of enjoy the car for a little while and get out of the house... I filled it up before I left and filled it up when I got back and used about four gallons for the 48 or so miles..
I checked the passenger side plugs again and they all look pretty much like this one...
View attachment 1715491775 View attachment 1715491774
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Looks a skosh rich at cruise, but you saw that on the gauge. It's hard to tell from the picture, but watch the center wire very close as you get the tune up closer. You should see some erosion of the edges of the center wire and the edges of the ground wire. That's when you are really close.

You are definitely making progress. I'll take tenacity over cookie cutter any day.
 
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