EFI -3G hemi

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blown71duster

blown71duster

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For you guys that want to keep the efi and drivability that goes with it. I MAY have another option. I read on the net of hemi cars on the road with the MSD ignition better known as the hemi-6 with megasquirt controling the fuel. Which you could do too ,but not real user friendly.
FAST has a similiar control box for the ignition , the XIM 3013142 handling ignition for the factory COP . Sells for $625
FAST also sells a self tuning efi standalone system called the fast EZ which can control 8 injectors on a port style manifold. Sells for $873
I believe the msd-6 setup sells for similiar price with harness price added.
Horsepower TV recently had a stock 5.7 on their dyno with the EZ setup with the throttle body style injection on a carb style intake that self tuned at 400HP after a few pulls.
The only hangup is the throttle body, worst case is that FAST sells a 112001 adapter to fit a lsx gm style 92mm TB to the hemi which is $380 and the adapter is $65.00 converting to a cable drive.
I believe you could make an adaptor which is just a piece of aluminum with two bolt patterns and adapt something like an edelbrock 350-3864 an ls1 style 90mm that comes with the TPS and IAC already on it. Sells for $332.
The EZ is setup sensor wise to the gm style sensors,Map,coolant, IAT etc, as far as connectors, which wouldn't be that hard to adapt.
This could be an under $2000 option that would eliminate the headaches associated with the factory wiring and drive by wire TB. And can be tuned yourself .

Lots of info on the net, found this on youtube:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FW6ZOpPs9dA&feature=related"]YouTube - FAST EZ-EFI Fuel System Installation[/ame]
 
I saw that episode of Horsepower TV, definately a good option for the Hemi.
 
Im very interested but all that info sounds really foreign to me...lol
 
all that stuff is more than im willing to spend, currently i have a complete truck and have all the needed parts. so that costs me nothing. once i end up going high boost in the future ill look at getting away from the factory stuff
 
Saw your PM on BBD. I'll be keeping my eye on progress of this. The price of the EZ-EFI and XIM together makes it attractive. Looking forward to seeing more.
 
What makes the EZ attractive to me is the fact that it does away with the drive by wire setup( I personally dont care for that and have heard a lot of guys complain about the response of those too), and gives you the ablility to change the tune without paying someone for a custom tune. I was impressed that the controller is capable of showing trouble codes and the ecm has a limp in mode if you loose a sensor so you can still drive it .
For guys wanting to run boost the EZ is not capable of that.
For comparison Indy wants $1150 for a 750 carb and mod man intake, then you have to buy the ignition $625 the same as you do for the EZ, so its really priced close.
 
So let me get this straight...
Fast EZ ignition programer $873
92MM TB with adapter $380 + $65=$445
What about manifold?
What about harness?
 
USCG CHARGER said:
So let me get this straight...
Fast EZ ignition programer $873
92MM TB with adapter $380 + $65=$445
What about manifold?
What about harness?
Click to expand...

Ok , the fast ez for $873 (priced off of Summit)
comes with harness,controller,wide band O2 etc.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/FST-302000/

Then you would need for the ignition $623 comes with wiring also

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/FST-3013142/

http://www.compcams.com/Technical/Catalogs/NP2010/PDF/23.pdf

cable style throttle body, $445, you might be able to fab up your own much cheaper though,needs to have throttle position sensor and idle air control motor

I want to use my 6.1 factory intake and injectors because I love the way its looks best personally, you can use any factory hemi port injection intake and injectors or any aftermarket intake setup for port efi for that matter.
 
ok I understand now... One question though... what if I wanted to go with a large 6.1 or 5.7 stroker would this system be capable of tuning it properly?
 
It looks like it could as long as you had the injector size correct.

This is an interesting concept, I hadn't given it much thought as to making it work with the stock intake manifold.

It might be worth asking some questions:

http://fastmanefi.com/
 
Maybe you would want to talk to a FAST tech person to better answer your questions , but from what I have read on it it seems like you would have to match your injectors to your horsepower level, they have to be a high impedance ( high Z ).
Copied and paste some info:

The throttle body version of EZ is limited to 550 HP because it only uses 4 injectors, which must be high impedance. But if you use the new LS-7 style injectors (all high-Z) with port injection you can go all the way to 85 lbs/hr. 8-85 lb/hr injectors will handle 900 HP.

You have control over the target A/F ratio table via the programming pod.

Also the 92 mm throttle body should be good for a stroker combo, stock is 80mm
 
But I talked to FASTMAN about this exact thing "Hemi 6 with EZ EFI + throttle body", and he seemed against it. I will try and restate what he told me... Please remember, I a'm not a expert.

The normal fast "hemi" kit uses the factory crank/cam sensors to operate a fully sequential EFI, the EZ EFI retrofit kit would require extra parts (switching all sensors and injectors to GM) and you lose sequential EFI running only a basic "bank to bank".

The manifold/4150 throttlebody basic kit with the Hemi 6 is another option, but by doing so you still lose the sequential EFI, you also lose some of the fuel savings and benefit of a dry manifold.

Thai being said, the EZ stuff, from what I have read, and heard from a first hand user, is great stuff, and if I was building a "carbed" motor, the EZ kit is the way I would go.
 
I called the FAST tech line, and asked them if I could put the fast EZ on a 6.1 hemi. He said it could be done. You would have to change the injector wiring plugs which they could provide but use the factory injectors and of course go to a cable style throttle body. On the sensors worst case you might have to change to gm style like map ,coolant,etc. but not sure of that , most sensors gm to chrysler are very similiar as far as the way they work maybe you could get by just changing the plugs on those too, would have to check that out, still this setup is a lot cheaper than the full blown fast hemi kit. The hemi kit is more of a plug and play ready to go and no doubt a nice setup ,but the EZ is more for us on a budget that dont mind a little retrofitting.
The hemi kit is $3119 on summit:

http://www.summitracing.com/search/?keyword=fast xfi hemi&dds=1

Off of fast website:

The multi-port wiring harness is pre-wired for common GM sensors and labeled for a simple installation. However, FAST™ offers a full line of compatible sensors, injectors and adapters if needed.

Found sensors off of FAST online website :
gm coolant-$10.25 (cheaper than changing the connectors)
gm Air temp $10.25
gm Map $41.15 (which I still believe the factory map would work with connector change, they are both 3 wire,5 volt ref,gnd,signal return)

I was looking at my hemi and it looks like the gm coolant sensor has the same threads as it does ,just thread the gm one right in and plug it in, the map(run a vacuum hose and plug it in) and air temp (plug it in and mount in air intake) and the throttle body from edlelbrock already has the gm sensors you need on it , the EZ harness has these exact connectors already on it, just change the injector plugs, which you could solder your old ones to the new harness or new ones from fast.
 
I have seen the FAST kits for 2799 on ebay... so that saves a bit, but they are killer $$$. I plan to save 'til about next summer...

I agree EZ-EFI is a much more budget friendly way to go, without a doubt.

fastmanefi's website say the new XFI 2.0 will allow for you to chose between either the tunable (dyno) system, or a self tuning/adjusting system like the EZ set up, you can turn it off ad on... I hope that includes the Hemi kits.

There is huge benefit in my eyes for not having to pay the $ for dyno time... That will be the big expense I am sure.

JOE
 
joeboy said:
But I talked to FASTMAN about this exact thing "Hemi 6 with EZ EFI + throttle body", and he seemed against it. .
Click to expand...

I believe FASTMAN has agreed that it is a cheaper viable option ,he has it priced out that way now

Here's how it prices out:
EZ-EFI System for port injection $825
92 MM throttle body $410
Throttle body to 5.7/6.1 adapter plate $60
TPS for TB $31
LS style IAC for manifold $73
1 Bar map sensor $40

$1439 total + shipping
 
$1400 is a reasonable price for an EFI to run the new Hemi's but I just want to be sure it will wrk before I spend the coin.
 
blown71duster said:
I believe FASTMAN has agreed that it is a cheaper viable option ,he has it priced out that way now

Here's how it prices out:
EZ-EFI System for port injection $825
92 MM throttle body $410
Throttle body to 5.7/6.1 adapter plate $60
TPS for TB $31
LS style IAC for manifold $73
1 Bar map sensor $40

$1439 total + shipping
Click to expand...

WOW,


When I stated he was against it, I should of said he said it was a available option, just not the "best" or "ideal" way to control the HEMI. I talked with him, but didnt get specifics on prices... I have to admit, that is a killer price compared to the "kit" and worth the trade-offs in my book.

JOE
 
While the mechanical throttle option is intriguing, $1400 will pay for a 2X as many CMR custom tunes than you'd need in a lifetime.
 
New engine harness from Hotwire $1050, New ECM $600 ( a reflash would be cheaper) New DBW pedal $150, misc sensors & brake switch. Total, just under 2K to run the factory EFI and factory 5 sped auto. Why not just use the factory EFI?
 
I agree with Tin, and as added bounus, you can go to any dealer in the country to have it worked on if a problem develops. They just plug in and go from there.
 
For me the advantage is having the performance 90mm mechanical throttle body for better response , and I plan on adding a performance camshaft , maybe on down the line and the system will self tune , no need to rely on a cmr or custom flash once you buy this setup. JMO
I believe if you are planning on running the factory 5 spd auto then you would be better off with the factory ecu.
 
blown71duster said:
For me the advantage is having the performance 90mm mechanical throttle body for better response
Click to expand...

Improved throttle response is a very easy CMR tune fix. imo its not reason enough for a complete and costly engine management redesign, not even close.

Touchy throttle and incessant bogging would be my concern with a mechanical tb.

Kickdown linkage connection would be easier though
 
myduster360 said:
Improved throttle response is a very easy CMR tune fix. imo not reason enough for a complete and costly engine management redesign.

Touchy throttle and incessant bogging would be my concern with a mechanical tb. Kickdown linkage connection would be easier though
Click to expand...

exactly...

5.7hemi nice to see your up and around hows the eye?

tin i always appreciate your input
 
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