EFI -3G hemi

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well if you run a manual trans or maual valvebody there would be no need to figure out the kickdown linkage. No matter if you went factory pcm or aftermarket.
 
Well just throwing out another option for guys trying to retrofit the hemis , The larger 90 mm DBW throttle body seems to be one of the first performance upgrades , which are running $450 and up , then the reflashes and cmr tunes arent cheap either, I think once you start upgrading a N/A hemi beyond stock, that is when an aftemarket efi system shines. I know I wont be happy with a stock engine very long in my muscle car , and even if I decide to upgrade to boost, I talked to a fast tech and the XIM ignition box is the same as they use for their hemi kit , just need to change the wiring (has a can input to the xfi ecm ) and upgrade to a xfi ecm. If you just want a stock engine , the stock setup sounds like it would be the cheaper option, but if you upgrade to a performance throttle by wire TB and have to send out the ecm for a flash for your new cam, latest mod etc. probably not. You have to keep this in mind as the total cost involved and decide what is the best deal for your ride and what you have planned for it in the future.
 
blown71duster said:
Well just throwing out another option for guys trying to retrofit the hemis , The larger 90 mm DBW throttle body seems to be one of the first performance upgrades , which are running $450 and up , then the reflashes and cmr tunes arent cheap either, I think once you start upgrading a N/A hemi beyond stock, that is when an aftemarket efi system shines. I know I wont be happy with a stock engine very long in my muscle car , and even if I decide to upgrade to boost, I talked to a fast tech and the XIM ignition box is the same as they use for their hemi kit , just need to change the wiring (has a can input to the xfi ecm ) and upgrade to a xfi ecm. If you just want a stock engine , the stock setup sounds like it would be the cheaper option, but if you upgrade to a performance throttle by wire TB and have to send out the ecm for a flash for your new cam, latest mod etc. probably not. You have to keep this in mind as the total cost involved and decide what is the best deal for your ride and what you have planned for it in the future.
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Right but a diablo and cmr tuning fixes all of those issues you are thinking of for a 3rd of the money of that FAST system
 
johnparts said:
Right but a diablo and cmr tuning fixes all of those issues you are thinking of for a 3rd of the money of that FAST system
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You can buy a 3g hemi ,wire it , and tune it for the cost of this setup which is less tha 2k with a 90mm throttle body included for a third of the cost , please tell me how thats about $700. I am talking about someone that is starting out with no electronics.
 
blown71duster said:
You can buy a 3g hemi ,wire it , and tune it for the cost of this setup which is less tha 2k with a 90mm throttle body included for a third of the cost , please tell me how thats about $700. I am talking about someone that is starting out with no electronics.
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I'm doing it right now starting with no electronics you just need to shop around and be willing to do home work. Let me lay it out a bit here. The harness will cost you but you can find one for cheap if you are willing to dig around. I got my Harness from 5.7hemi here on fabo for cheap, my pcm was 100 bucks used, a used predator on ebay will run you about 300 bucks and most cmr tuners will work for 250 on an email basis which would get you running. A full cmr dyno tune will run you around 3-500 if you have made changes internally like a cam or heads and some will even update your tune for free if you change things again.
 
blown71duster said:
You can buy a 3g hemi ,wire it , and tune it for the cost of this setup which is less tha 2k with a 90mm throttle body included for a third of the cost , please tell me how thats about $700. I am talking about someone that is starting out with no electronics.
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and the ezi efi isn't all that great yet you are much better off running the full xfi system that includes the ignition box and throttle body for around $2995 but plan on spending 1000 to get it tuned since they have to write the tune from scratch.
 
there are countless car and trucks running the cmr with cams heads turbos superchargers strokers and nitrous. I can think of 8-9 tuners off the top of my head, 3 of witch I have delt with. And those 3 they all have done really good email tunes. And have done enough of them that they can get you close the first time. With just about any combo of parts you can come up with. Then it's a matter of getting miles on the pcm to get it to learn. Then data log and retune. After a few cyycles of this you will have a really good if not dead on tune. And not once would you even strap it to a dyno. That is a tune that can be had for about 250. That is how I plan to go on my cammed, headed and turboed build.
 
johnparts said:
and the ezi efi isn't all that great yet you are much better off running the full xfi system that includes the ignition box and throttle body for around $2995 but plan on spending 1000 to get it tuned since they have to write the tune from scratch.
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The ez for less than 2k does include the Tb and ignition, (xmi stand alone ) which is the same box as the full xfi hemi kit runs. Actually the xfi full system is self tuning now also. And the Ez includes the programmer to set the parameters to get it going , also includes a wide band O2 ,.I have read a lot on different forums , heard a lot of good reports with this setup.
Hey if you found all that stuff that cheap thats great, and I am not trying to one up you. I am just throwing this out as an option .
Some guys prefer to spend $800 -$1k for a custom carb and some prefer to buy a used carb and self tune it themselves for a little of nothing , same with EFI, everyone has ther idea what is the best deal I guess.
I also work on cars , I just flat out don't care for the tbw throttle bodies, I have had cars that were towed in as no starts , that ended up with problems with throttle bodies sticking etc. Just dont care to have one on my car personally.
 
blown71duster said:
The ez for less than 2k does include the Tb and ignition, (xmi stand alone ) which is the same box as the full xfi hemi kit runs. Actually the xfi full system is self tuning now also. And the Ez includes the programmer to set the parameters to get it going , also includes a wide band O2 ,.I have read a lot on different forums , heard a lot of good reports with this setup.
Hey if you found all that stuff that cheap thats great, and I am not trying to one up you. I am just throwing this out as an option .
Some guys prefer to spend $800 -$1k for a custom carb and some prefer to buy a used carb and self tune it themselves for a little of nothing , same with EFI, everyone has ther idea what is the best deal I guess.
I also work on cars , I just flat out don't care for the tbw throttle bodies, I have had cars that were towed in as no starts , that ended up with problems with throttle bodies sticking etc. Just dont care to have one on my car personally.
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I can agree with you. It's all a matter of what you want. Me personall I have 2 pcm's, 2 wireing harnesses and can get just about any factor part I want for free or for pennys on the dollar. So I can't justify the expense of the fast parts. I'll look into it in the future when I build the motor for 20+psi of boost and reaching the limits of the stock stuff (w/ cmr tuning) but until then I'm sticking with factory parts. Again I say go with what you think is best. I feel we are splitting hairs now.
 
The eye is getting better day by day. Just a odd question...dont most all newcars, trucks and suv's have the dbw tb? Just askin'.
 
5.7 hemi said:
The eye is getting better day by day. Just a odd question...dont most all newcars, trucks and suv's have the dbw tb? Just askin'.
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I think more and more cars are switching to DBW these days. It does take a little getting used to, I had it in my 05 Magnum R/T. I saw an ad for a box that eliminated the lag, but can't remember the name of the company.
How you doing Zack?
 
03ramit1 said:
there are countless car and trucks running the cmr with cams heads turbos superchargers strokers and nitrous. I can think of 8-9 tuners off the top of my head, 3 of witch I have delt with. And those 3 they all have done really good email tunes. And have done enough of them that they can get you close the first time. With just about any combo of parts you can come up with. Then it's a matter of getting miles on the pcm to get it to learn. Then data log and retune. After a few cycles of this you will have a really good if not dead on tune. And not once would you even strap it to a dyno. That is a tune that can be had for about 250. That is how I plan to go on my cammed, headed and turboed build.
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^^Right on.

The tuning process through email is fairly straight forward even with a turbo or supercharger. Go with a tuner that knows what he's doing, supply him with accurate datalogs and there's generally no issues. Also, the DSP does allow quite a bit of adjustability to the end user too. WOT Timing and A/F(rev limit,ect) can still be moved around a significant amount just with the tool.

There's really no comparing the factory PCM's idle and drivability quality to what most stand alone EFI offer. You really need to be a top rated tuner and spend a crap load of time with a car to get a stand alone to attain the drivability that comes free with the stock PCM. Drive quality is one of the most difficult things to tune,,,usually but the stock PCM offers the tuner a HUGE advantage.

The stock PCM is unmatched in its adaptive learning and protection strategies. Idle, Closed Loop A/F, Tip-in timing, and Knock sensing all complex learning capability to actively improve drivability and maintain engine performance. With ETC, the PCM has the option to override the Pedal and can close the throttle if any parameter is out of line.

The added benefit of readily available parts is there along with the comprehensive (and free) Diagnostic procedures offered by Mopar. Very few EFI systems offer little if any fault detection procedures. If a sensor goes south and the car runs like crap, on most EFI systems you're stuck figuring it out all on your own.

If the stock PCM was just another aftermarket stand alone, it's quality, power, sophisticatoin and added value would cost over $15,000 easy.

imo, every attempt should be made to use the stock PCM when ever possible.
 
MARTIN said:
OK, What about a 2009+ 5.7 with VCT? :toothy10: Where can one aquire a pcm/wiring harness to run one? Will it work in a retro application with a 727 or manual trans?
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Call Chris Squire at Hotwire..
 
MARTIN said:
OK, What about a 2009+ 5.7 with VCT? :toothy10: Where can one aquire a pcm/wiring harness to run one? Will it work in a retro application with a 727 or manual trans?
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from my limited understanding of the VCT you are stuck with the factory PCM. I have been on the pionerring end with the 3gen hemi in the past and don't plan on going there on the new VCT stuff. I'll let someone else figure it out and I'll learn form their experiances.
 
03ramit1 said:
from my limited understanding of the VCT you are stuck with the factory PCM. I have been on the pionerring end with the 3gen hemi in the past and don't plan on going there on the new VCT stuff. I'll let someone else figure it out and I'll learn form their experiances.
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It has been a pain... Until I can get a factory PCM(or aftermarket) and a custom harness, I'll have Interia weld up the timing gear/phaser and degree the cam. Then I'll just use a carb until I can sort it all out. I really want to use the VCT :angry7: but I seem to be ahead of the crowd on using this engine in an old car. But I have it and I could not replace it for what I have in it....

Ahhh the joys of hot rodding and not being able to leave things alone...

After I get it figgered out, you can learn from my experiences less the headaches, disapointments and blank silences followed by,"you wanna do what?"
 
MARTIN said:
It has been a pain... Until I can get a factory PCM(or aftermarket) and a custom harness, I'll have Interia weld up the timing gear/phaser and degree the cam. Then I'll just use a carb until I can sort it all out. I really want to use the VCT :angry7: but I seem to be ahead of the crowd on using this engine in an old car. But I have it and I could not replace it for what I have in it....

Ahhh the joys of hot rodding and not being able to leave things alone...

After I get it figgered out, you can learn from my experiences less the headaches, disapointments and blank silences followed by,"you wanna do what?"
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you cant find a factory PCM to use? let me ask arround and see what i can find for you. is it a car or truck motor?
 
03ramit1 said:
you cant find a factory PCM to use? let me ask arround and see what i can find for you. is it a car or truck motor?
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Hotwire has one for $670. It is a 2009 truck engine.


Edit: But since I am not using a new style trans, Chris @ Hotwire says that I will have to use a pcm from a 09-10 Challenger 6spd ...
 
MARTIN said:
Hotwire has one for $670. It is a 2009 truck engine.


Edit: But since I am not using a new style trans, Chris @ Hotwire says that I will have to use a pcm from a 09-10 Challenger 6spd ...
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Trans settings can be switched from auto to manual in CMR. I haven't fully tested it myself but others have.

I'm not sure how VCT will be effected by not having a vehical speed input. Other than that, there's no good reason why a VCT would need any other special attention as far as the tune is concerned.
 
Here's what it looks like for me...

670 pcm 2009-10 6-spd Challenger
1095 Hot Rod Harness
98 pedal
300 FCM
209 5.7 challenger intake manifold
135 throttle body
0 my injectors
225 non mds lifter set w/ yokes
28 mds solonoid plugs
_______________
2757 Plus shipping from several vendors

That is just the bare minimum...
 
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