Electronic Distributors From Rick Ehrenberg

[Newbomb Turk]

You saw Tuner's post about modifying the weights. I haven't tried it. Be interested in what you did and what you find. I haven't put in the time and effort to figure the details of what is needed to change the ceter of mass and geometry to come closer to compensate for the force increasing exponentially with rpm.

At this point I’m just trying to get weight off the weights to slow everything down.

I’m not a big fan of running barn door springs to control the weights.

Once I get to the point I have the weights light enough I’ll start playing with weight shaping and geometry.

I also want to make a fixture to machine Chrysler weights. Then I can really start working with those too.

 

[RustyRatRod]

I installed a RE distributor after installing a FBO timing limiter plate. I also used the Hi Rev 7500 ECM. It crapped out within 1200 miles. I had to tow my car home....

View attachment 1716315234

On the side of the road I changed the ballast, then the ECM and neither helped. It turned out the spare ECM and ballast that I had were also bad!
At home, I swapped in other stuff from my stash and it fired right up. To confirm, I tried the Hi Rev on another car and it wouldn't start either.

View attachment 1716315236

View attachment 1716315237

As you can see, the problem isn't isolated to the HI Rev box.

 

[Cartel]

I installed a RE distributor after installing a FBO timing limiter plate. I also used the Hi Rev 7500 ECM. It crapped out within 1200 miles. I had to tow my car home....

View attachment 1716315234

On the side of the road I changed the ballast, then the ECM and neither helped. It turned out the spare ECM and ballast that I had were also bad!
At home, I swapped in other stuff from my stash and it fired right up. To confirm, I tried the Hi Rev on another car and it wouldn't start either.

View attachment 1716315236

View attachment 1716315237

thats a sweet car. sorry to hear you had some issues. I almost wonder if the altenator was putting out too much or not enough volts or has ac ripple.
Are you using a solid state regulator? That old box with the ST micro switcher is a good brand transistor. makes me wonder for sure

 

[Kern Dog]

The 1970 models got the electronic regulator.
I've had an alternator on the car that charges fine except when the A/C fan is on, headlights and low rpms. The day the ECM failed, I don't know what the battery voltage was when I left the house. It may have been lower than ideal. When it stalled and shut down, it seemed to crank slower and slower in a short amount of time like the battery wasn't anywhere near a full charge. I tested it before I went back for the trailer..I was at 12.01 amps. A couple of years ago I was amazed to learn of what is considered a fully charged battery. See the chart:

In short, each tenth of an amp is approximately 10%. It still boggles my mind.
I tried cranking each time I tried something new...Wire connections on the ballast, coil, distributor, change the ballast, change the ECM...by then it would barely spin over. At home I added a jumper pack to the battery and I swapped in a generic ECM...

It started and ran fine. A couple weeks later, it crapped out. It seems like something in this car shortens the life of these ECMs.

 

[Cartel]

The 1970 models got the electronic regulator.
I've had an alternator on the car that charges fine except when the A/C fan is on, headlights and low rpms. The day the ECM failed, I don't know what the battery voltage was when I left the house. It may have been lower than ideal. When it stalled and shut down, it seemed to crank slower and slower in a short amount of time like the battery wasn't anywhere near a full charge. I tested it before I went back for the trailer..I was at 12.01 amps. A couple of years ago I was amazed to learn of what is considered a fully charged battery. See the chart:

View attachment 1716315417

In short, each tenth of an amp is approximately 10%. It still boggles my mind.
I tried cranking each time I tried something new...Wire connections on the ballast, coil, distributor, change the ballast, change the ECM...by then it would barely spin over. At home I swapped in a generic ECM...

View attachment 1716315418

It started and ran fine. A couple weeks later, it crapped out. It seems like something in this car shortens the life of these ECMs.

a bad diode in the rectifier bridge may introduce ac ripple that may hurt it. thats inside the alt. I would check the volts running then switch the VOM to AC milivolts and see if there is any AC, give it some rpm 2000, 3000, 4000 see if it shows any ac and then what it gets up to on DC.
Somewhere I was reading one of the kits I'm looking at said to use a relay to power the ignition because a low voltage would hurt the module.
I been reading so many kits I cant remember where I seen that. You could order a new transistor off digikey and replace that ST one in the mopar box. just punch in the part number. The high rev I'm not sure. I also dont know if you can open those boxes either

 

[Kern Dog]

I appreciate the suggestions. I am pretty sharp with some matters but electrical stuff is not one of them! I do want to learn more so that I won't just be a parts swapper when the car won't start.
To me, a talented dude diagnoses while a simpler minded dude just replaces parts until the car runs again.
Currently, I am the latter with electrical problems. I do have another alternator to swap in, a "Tuff Stuff" unit. It is supposed to charge more at all rpm ranges. For now, my voltmeter will dip below 11 volts at idle with the headlights and high beams on and pressing on the brake, turning on the A/C drops it further. Once I rev up to 2000 rpms, the gauge will come up to the 13 range. With no lights or A/C going, it holds a steady 13.8 to 14 volts at 2000 rpms.

 

[Cartel]

I appreciate the suggestions. I am pretty sharp with some matters but electrical stuff is not one of them! I do want to learn more so that I won't just be a parts swapper when the car won't start.
To me, a talented dude diagnoses while a simpler minded dude just replaces parts until the car runs again.
Currently, I am the latter with electrical problems. I do have another alternator to swap in, a "Tuff Stuff" unit. It is supposed to charge more at all rpm ranges. For now, my voltmeter will dip below 11 volts at idle with the headlights and high beams on and pressing on the brake, turning on the A/C drops it further. Once I rev up to 2000 rpms, the gauge will come up to the 13 range. With no lights or A/C going, it holds a steady 13.8 to 14 volts at 2000 rpms.

yes I read these alternators dont do good at idle. I was eyeballing a 1 wire 95 amp thats supposed to do better at idle
the questions say 79 amps at idle which is plenty.

1966 CHRYSLER NEWPORT Powermaster 75091 Powermaster Retro Alternators | Summit Racing

Free Shipping - Powermaster Retro Alternators with qualifying orders of $109. Shop Alternators and Generators at Summit Racing.

www.summitracing.com

 

[Kern Dog]

I have the headlight relay wire harness from FABO member Crackedback so my headlight load comes straight off of the alternator.
During the daytime, it will idle at 13+ volts but that is with none of the load of headlights, brake lights or the A/C system. I've wondered what the chances are of me discharging the battery by extended night driving at slow speeds, like cruising.
I have a 75 Power Wagon that always shows a healthy charge when driving yet the battery loses charge after a few weeks of sitting. I have tried different batteries and the problem persists. I was told that a diode may be to blame, that an alternator can actually function normally and provide charging and still discharge when at rest. I've pulled the positive cable when I park it and yeah...the truck starts fine after 2-3 weeks or more so something is drawing power. That truck is really basic....No A/C and I rarely drive it at night.
I have gone through numerous ECMs in the Charger. It has me curious if something in the electrical system leads to early failure. I do use a ground strap to the ECM. I replaced the underhood engine harness 11 years ago. The engine has 2 ground straps on it. This alternator is one constant though. I've had it for many years. Again, I did buy this:

I've just delayed the swap since I've been busy with other things.

 

[Dave999]

if the car is manual this may be useful if its not i'll agree something else is wrong on the electrical side of things ....

Your alternator can, at the point of an unexpected switch off, produce a spike in the electrical system.
when running, the armature in the middle, has a current flowing which converts it into a big spinning multi pole magnet, like the one in a dynamo.
that field is dragged at high speed past the main windings in the case, driving a current in them.
this is in most cases an AC 3 phase set up.
Those 3 AC currents at a voltage higher than 14V are rectified into a 12--14.5 volt DC current to charge the battery and run the car.

If your battery is flat-ish and the alternator is doing its best to sink 20+ amps into it
i.e you are revving the engine on a manual car, to pull away after a cold start and the alternator is working hard.

a stall at this point can cause a spike in the electrical system.
everything is still switched on at this point, just the engine stopped abruptly.

the alternator is limited in its output:-
1) By the winding configuration 36 amp alternator makes nominally 36 amps
2) By the back EMF created by the processes that creates the DC output in the first place. You get to a point where no matter how fast the thing spins its never going to make more than 30 amps or so i.e the current in the armature makes it a magnet with a magnetic field that is spinning fast, which is creating a current in the coils around the case. the current in the coils around the alternator case creates a magnetic field, because of course, that current is also flowing, and a flowing current makes a magnetic field that resists the impact of the magnetic field created by the armature.

the alternator has a built in self limiting design.
but both parts have a field around them when its working, and that filed will collapse when it stops abruptly

if the motor stalls at a point when the alternator is FULL ON the spinning armature stops and the magnetic field it creates stays in place but stops moving abruptly. But the field around the coils in the case collapses.

this can produce a spike on both the field terminal and the main battery + terminal that is going the other way from normal.

no real impact on a mechanical regulator or a set of points

But potentially some impact on an ECU.
the higher the rating of the alternator the larger this spike can be

An electronic regulator is better at isolating any spike back on the field wire to just its own circuit, so its unlikely to get back to the fuse box/ main splice and hence to the ECU or coil

the spike on the B+ wire will be dependent on where the alternator stopped where the poles of the armature are in relation to the 3-phase coils in the case. the voltages in these coils when operating are greater than the DC output voltage of the alternator because the peaks and troughs of the 3 waves of AC need to be combined and hammered flat by the diode based rectifier into a DC output between 14.3 and 14.7 volts

as such in theory you could get something negative at the b+ terminal and depending on how abruptly the alternator stopped, the crash of the field around these coils could be rapid and make a noticable spike of 10s to 100s of volts for a very short, as in milliseconds, period of time.

the condenser in the distributor can help combat this issue
a diode connected to coil negative can help combat this issue (do a search for dave999 zener diode and you will see what i did)

I have broken 5 or 6 ignition modules over 20+ years, they have tended to die when i have been at the track. i drive no faster on the track than i can achieve illegally on the road just on the road i do it for way longer and when stuck in traffic way hotter.

what is common amongst failures
1) At the track the car battery is used a lot for starting the car and charging things, so its not exactly fully charged by the second or 3 day of racing, beering, and talking BS. I'm not in the pits and i don't own a generator.
2) We tend to be camped on uneven ground in deep grass, and as this was a WWII airfield before it became a track, ruts, holes and unseen depressions, one presumes some bombs landed and some planes missed the runway....
3) The car is often very cold and damp when first started
4) I have less than useful reverse ratio in my manual box
5) On the occasions where i have tried to reverse out of the site where we are camped and have stalled it at reasonable RPM, ammeter pegged right, Instantly or within hours i have a failed ignition module.

My experience doesn't make it so, doesn't make it a thing... i could be wrong, However its the only explanation i can come up with.
My alternator is good decent DC output no failed diodes

I have learned a lesson and i no longer have failed ignition modules not for a very long time.
careful use when cold and stuck in the field
a nice zener diode

what can cause an alternator to switch off abruptly?
1) stall the car
2) loose field wire
3) worn out or sticking carbon brushes

i think it would be mighty bad luck to experience this in an auto trans car
i think it would be unlikely you would come to my conclusion with an auto trans car

but i think it is well known that unexpected spikes on the electrical system can kill an ECU

if nothing else fits try a diode like i did

VS-40HFR40 Diode Stud mount

screw it into a grounded bracket or the body, i just used a tab on my coil mount.
run a wire from the exposed end to the coil negative, see if your ECUs last longer

switching the ignition off with the key/switch doesn't cause a problem because at that point you disconnect Ignition from the electrical system.....


Dave

 

[RustyRatRod]

The 1970 models got the electronic regulator.
I've had an alternator on the car that charges fine except when the A/C fan is on, headlights and low rpms. The day the ECM failed, I don't know what the battery voltage was when I left the house. It may have been lower than ideal. When it stalled and shut down, it seemed to crank slower and slower in a short amount of time like the battery wasn't anywhere near a full charge. I tested it before I went back for the trailer..I was at 12.01 amps. A couple of years ago I was amazed to learn of what is considered a fully charged battery. See the chart:

View attachment 1716315417

In short, each tenth of an amp is approximately 10%. It still boggles my mind.
I tried cranking each time I tried something new...Wire connections on the ballast, coil, distributor, change the ballast, change the ECM...by then it would barely spin over. At home I added a jumper pack to the battery and I swapped in a generic ECM...

View attachment 1716315418

It started and ran fine. A couple weeks later, it crapped out. It seems like something in this car shortens the life of these ECMs.

I'd be double checking the ground to the ECM.

 

[Dave999]

When it comes to Ricks parts i've never had a problem. really really helpful, and he owns an Aussie charger amongst a range of other mopars..... so he is obviously a good guy....

In this day and age, if you want a Chinese company to make a pre existing product line, to your own specification, or indeed forward a specification and ask for it to be made. Instead of buying what is offered through Aliexpress.com you go to alibaba.com or DHGate. Contact the company and agree what you want, send the specification or sample, state the quality you want and work out a price for however many 100 you can sell.
If you a not too stingy on the unit price you are willing to pay, you get the quality you asked for. if you beat the supplier into submission you will get the quality you deserve

if he got them made, and the quality is good, he did a good job of navigating the differences in business culture, to the benefit of his mopar customers.

Dave

 

[Demonx2]

yes I read these alternators dont do good at idle. I was eyeballing a 1 wire 95 amp thats supposed to do better at idle
the questions say 79 amps at idle which is plenty.

http://[URL]https://www.summitracing.com/parts/pwm-75091/make/chrysler/model/newport/year/1966

[/URL]

I have the single groove pulley version of this Powermaster 1-wire on the avatar. It has been excellent for the three years it's been on there (knock on wood). I run 2 electric fans and an electric fuel pump without issue at idle (approx 800-900 rpm).

 

[ESP47]

I have the headlight relay wire harness from FABO member Crackedback so my headlight load comes straight off of the alternator.
During the daytime, it will idle at 13+ volts but that is with none of the load of headlights, brake lights or the A/C system. I've wondered what the chances are of me discharging the battery by extended night driving at slow speeds, like cruising.
I have a 75 Power Wagon that always shows a healthy charge when driving yet the battery loses charge after a few weeks of sitting. I have tried different batteries and the problem persists. I was told that a diode may be to blame, that an alternator can actually function normally and provide charging and still discharge when at rest. I've pulled the positive cable when I park it and yeah...the truck starts fine after 2-3 weeks or more so something is drawing power. That truck is really basic....No A/C and I rarely drive it at night.
I have gone through numerous ECMs in the Charger. It has me curious if something in the electrical system leads to early failure. I do use a ground strap to the ECM. I replaced the underhood engine harness 11 years ago. The engine has 2 ground straps on it. This alternator is one constant though. I've had it for many years. Again, I did buy this:

View attachment 1716315419

I've just delayed the swap since I've been busy with other things.

Have you tried disconnecting the negative cable from the battery, setting your meter to mA and connecting one lead to the battery negative terminal and the other to the negative cable? Should tell you if you've got a parasitic draw. At that point you can start removing fuses and disconnecting wires from the alternator etc to find the draw.

 

[Kern Dog]

With what vehicle?
The Charger has no issue with battery discharge.
In short, no… the extent that I have tested voltage is limited to looking at the amp gauges and using the multi- meter set to check amps, not resistance.
I’m barely competent at electrical matters. I never had much need more interest but I am slowly learning a bit here and there.

 

[ESP47]

With what vehicle?
The Charger has no issue with battery discharge.
In short, no… the extent that I have tested voltage is limited to looking at the amp gauges and using the multi- meter set to check amps, not resistance.
I’m barely competent at electrical matters. I never had much need more interest but I am slowly learning a bit here and there.

The 75 Power Wagon. Sounds like it has a draw to me. I'm no expert either but if you ever want a hand, let me know. I can at least get you feeling competent with your multi meter. Enough to easily address 95% of most electrical problems.