Headers vs. Exhaust Manifolds ~ 'Let The Debate Begin'

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69 Cuda 440 said:
Brand 'X' Headers

* Appliance Headers
* Black-Jack Headers
* Cragar Headers

These 'Brand-X' Headers were 'The Bargain Headers'.

The tubing, bends and collectors were fine, but the 'welds' around the
port-openings of the 'Header-Flange' were usually atrocious.

And sometimes the 'Flange-Headers' were not square {'Exhaust Leak City'}.

Still, for a low-cost Header {sometimes $89.99} on a weak street machine, they gave you a decent sound and a guarantee of some additional Horsepower ^^^.

And, the 'Chicks' loved the decals. They always made your Car go faster.
Click to expand...

After the first coupla header installs, and subsequent leaks,, I ALWAYs filed the flange welds flat,, the higher priced headers of today are definately better,, but back in "the day", I musta filed over a hundred sets..
 
I sold way too many sets of Blackjack headers for 49.99 LOL

1/4" Flanges are awesome for sealing and not warping.

Even on a stock engine, headers are a benefit from a power and usually a MPG improvement.
 
69 Cuda 440 said:
And, the 'Chicks' loved the decals. They always made your Car go faster.
Click to expand...
LOL.

I had heard it was chrome wheels and wad tahrs (wide tires) adds 10 mph to top speed.

The rule of thumb from back in the day was headers would add 15-25 hp. Typically, the more efficient breathing engines benefited more from headers.

The things I like about manifolds:

Durability.
Correctness for a concours restoration.
Fits properly with no cutting or hammering. This is only true if the manifold is designed for the application. As we all know, a V-8 in an A-body always has a body specific manifold on the drivers side.
 
Lets Talk Headers,

Just who was in the 'game' of Tuned Exhaust.

* Appliance Headers
* Black-Jack Headers
* Cragar Headers

* Cyclone Headers
* Kustom Headers
* Cheetah Headers

* Mickey Thompson Headers
* Belanger Headers
* S & S Headers

* Stahl Headers
* Hooker Headers
* Heddman Headers

* Jardine Headers
* Zoom Headers
* Thrush Headers

* Casler Headers
* Tubular Engineering
* Headers by Ed

* JR Headers
* Doug's Headers {Headers by Doug}
* Doug Thorley Headers

* Horsepower Engineering
* Gebler Headers
* Tyree Headers

* Sanderson Headers
* Clifford Research 6=8
* EMPI
 
fratzog lover said:
Dougs and Doug Thorley are different, no?
Click to expand...

Give That Man A 'Cigar'.

Doug's Headers {Headers by Doug}

Started out in 1958 in East Los Angeles as a small 'Muffler Shop',
and eventually moved to San Dimas, California.

Doug's Headers was purchased by the Petronix Performance Corporation
in January 2005, and the Exhaust Fabrication Facility is now located
in Irwindale, California.


Doug Thorley Headers

Also started out in 1958, but in Corona, California.

Famous for 'inventing' and developing the 'Tri-Y' Header
 
crackedback said:
I sold way too many sets of Blackjack headers for 49.99 LOL

1/4" Flanges are awesome for sealing and not warping.

Even on a stock engine, headers are a benefit from a power and usually a MPG improvement.
Click to expand...

Blackjack headers. That brings me back to my youth. Haven't heard or thought of them in 35 years or so. They were so popular because they were cheap, bolt on noise. Headers always add horsepower over stock manifolds, if only because it sounds louder and faster and adds visual horsepower.
 
~ Memories ~

'Blackjack Headers' > {Marketed by Mr. Gasket}

Fabricated by the 'Tenneco Automotive Operating Company'
Filed ........ December 13, 1976
Lake Forest, Illinois

First came out in 1977.

Famous for the '3-Bolt' Swivel Flange Plate.

The Headers were usually advertised for $67.95.

And yes, painted 'Jet-Black'.

But wait,

Then they introduced > the 'AK-5000' Aluminum-Coated Headers.

Oh, did they have horrible 'Flange-Head Plates'. They were so bad, that
Mr. Gasket {a gasket company} suggested 'not' to use a Gasket between
the Flange-Header and Cylinder Head.

Thin tubing as well ..... 19 Gauge {.042"} on a good day.

Marketed as > "The Most Horsepower for the Least Amount of Money"

* Blackjack Headers ........... $67.95
* Aluma-Kote Headers ....... $117.95

See Link.

http://i337.photobucket.com/albums/...ebsite Pics/Blackjackheaders.jpg?t=1242060435

~ Marketing Angle ~

* Electrostatically Painted
* Header Performance at a Moderate Price
* 100% Quality Tested
* Includes all Mounting Hardware and Gaskets
* Emission Fittings > installed where noted
 
Stock manifolds. Are we talking about the 'logs' on 273's & 318's, it any other non performance car? Cause aren't the hi po 340 and 383 just as good as headers?
 
69 Cuda 440 said:
Lets Talk Headers, Just who was in the 'game' of Tuned Exhaust.
Click to expand...

Dammit Paul. Now I'm going to be up all night trying to think of a brand of headers
not on your list (knowing you, you probably got them all). There must be somebody!

Oh, and don't forget the Chevy boy's favorite:

HeadersChevy.jpg
 
2 Darts said:
LOL.
I had heard it was chrome wheels and wad tahrs (wide tires) adds 10 mph to top speed.
Click to expand...

I always thought this was due to the fact that the shackle kits had the *** ends so jacked up in the air that since the car was always going downhill they got better MPG and more speed.

Horsepower vs. horsepower, bone stock the headers are going to add to torque and horsepower? Noticeably? Maybe, maybe not.

There are advantages to manifolds over headers, though, especially "back in the day," (given some of the brands named here: Blackjack, et al). Ground clearance for one. Manifolds didn't scrape the street with every pothole, bashing the collectors and negating the reason you put headers on to begin with. For those of us in northern climes manifolds didn't rust out in a winter or two.
 
at what point can you feel the difference,15,20,25 hp?
..and the numbers are reached at rpm's most never drive unless messin'
around in first and second gear..or racing.
 
wait up guys, lets look at some math: exhaust pulse travels 350 ft/sec or 4200 in/sec. A log is about 18 inch long at its longest point (#1) so at 2500 RPM which is a average cruising rpm, the exhaust pulses are hitting 40 times a second to each bank of manifolds. That gives each pulse 105 inches of "space" so the notion of an exhaust log feeding a 2" head pipe getting "backed up" with other pulses is nonsense. even considering reflections, you cant believe you are introducing a bottleneck. The header design is to enable an exhaust pulse to pull the next one out with it, enhancing cylinder evacuation and filling due to the small overlap portion that pulls more A/F in. Running a set of headers on an stock untuned (for headers) motor (carb untouched) will not show much gain but tuning for headers will show an improvement in HP and even more in torque which is what you can feel. Manifolds are not that bad considering their design restraints. Look at some old graphs of manifolds vs headers on a stock motor running designed RPM's and the results will suprise you. They are hardly worth the effort on a stocker, but even simple tuning will really wake up their potential. Whats 10% of a 318's 140 hp? 14 hp. Yeah! But on a mild build 300 HP 340, thats 30.
 
Generally,

On a 'stock' Small Block High-Performance Engine,

The gain can honestly be stated to be at +15 Horsepower without
exaggerating.

That is running with the Headers closed as well.

Remember too, that there will be an increase in RPM's of approximately
{+250}, as there will be less exhaust restriction.
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Back-in-the-Day {Our '1972' Performance Test for 'Cyclone Headers'}

Car .................... 1970 Plymouth 'Duster 340' ~ 4-Speed ~ 3.55 Gears ~ G70 x 14" Tires.
Odometer ............ 23,000
Improvements ......'None' {All Stock}

Best Performance.... 14.37 @ 97.10 MPH

Improvements ..... 'Cyclone' Headers ~ 1 5/8" Primary Pipes ~ 3" Collector
Note ................... Closed Headers, running thru the 'factory' stock exhaust system.

Best Performance ... 14.18 @ 98.94 MPH

Gain ................. {-.19 off Elapsed Time} and {+1.84 MPH}
 
No debate really. Headers make more power. Manifolds last longer.
 
69 Cuda 440 said:
Correct Replica Racer 43

Even on a 'basic' 318/200 HP, you will gain something with
a set of long-tube Headers.

On the 'Chassis Dyno' we usually saw an increase of
{10 to 12} Horsepower @ 3000 RPM's on the Mopar 318
with it's 'fire-breathing' BBD 2-Barrel.

And with a nice improvement in Low-End Torque as well.

With the small primary tubes, we could gain approximately
25 Ft/Lbs. of Torque @ 3000 RPM's.
Click to expand...

Did I make compel you to start this thread? LOL
 
Back in the day, headers with cherrybomb bullets, sounded mean, instant drag car, lol
 
Old Man Mopar said:
Dammit Paul. Now I'm going to be up all night trying to think of a brand of headers
not on your list (knowing you, you probably got them all). There must be somebody!

Oh, and don't forget the Chevy boy's favorite:

HeadersChevy.jpg
Click to expand...

Great idea, for a thread. The "stock" point,completely makes sense here. The first modification (bank for buck),on typical Detroit hot rod buildups ,is exhaust modifications. It's what, I still do...
 
Old Man Mopar said:
Dammit Paul. Now I'm going to be up all night trying to think of a brand of headers
not on your list (knowing you, you probably got them all). There must be somebody!

Oh, and don't forget the Chevy boy's favorite:

HeadersChevy.jpg
Click to expand...

That looks like something my Italian Grandfather would make.

His words > "Forget about the weight. It will last 50-Years. Now go get me a 'Canoli'."
 
pishta said:
wait up guys, lets look at some math: exhaust pulse travels 350 ft/sec or 4200 in/sec. A log is about 18 inch long at its longest point (#1) so at 2500 RPM which is a average cruising rpm, the exhaust pulses are hitting 40 times a second to each bank of manifolds. That gives each pulse 105 inches of "space" so the notion of an exhaust log feeding a 2" head pipe getting "backed up" with other pulses is nonsense.
Click to expand...

Math is good,, so's common sense.. On your typical log style manifold, outlet at the end,
during that 105 inches of "space", with the exception of the front exhaust port,, when the exhaust valve opens, the exhaust blasts outta the port and hits the opposite manifold wall,, for symplicity sake, x amt of gases turn left,, x amt of gases turn right,, the gases not heading toward the tailpipe have to be reversed/re-directed,, how would that be accomplished ..??
 
Not having access to a dyno, I can just give a seat of the pants report. Bone stock 69 Barracuda 340 Formula S with 3.23 gears produced a significant feeling / improvement / difference when I put Hooker Comp headers on it.
 
~ The Match Up ~

First off,

The Exhaust Manifolds for the 'Mopar 340' are a 'unique breed'. Quite possibly
one of the best set of Cast Iron Manifolds ever developed for a Small Block.

Still that being said, we gained {+16 Horsepower} when we slipped on
a set of 'Hooker Headers' {Competition Series} in place of the 'factory units'.

* 1 5/8" Primary Tubes
* Tube Length 34"
* 3" Collectors x 10" {w/2" Collector Extension}

And that was going 'into' the stock factory piping.

We also gained an additional {+200 RPM's} with the 'Hooker Tubes', and
got to 5400 RPM's much quicker.
 
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