I LOVE it!!!! Well done!!
Hemi Swapping a perfectly good 70 Duster
- Thread starter racerjoe
- Start date
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Looks very nice!!!!
racerjoe
Well-Known Member
Got the exhaust installed and messed with the cranking and idle fueling. It seems pretty decent, but will definitely need more tweaking. It’s so hot this time of year the water temperature never gets below 75 degrees even after sitting a day.
I decided to try the auto tune function in tuner studio. I never used it before but figured it was worth a try. So I set off for my first drive. I hadn’t even gotten off my street and I could see the auto tune doing its thing. It was starting to get super lean and within a second it brought it to the value on my AFR table. I was pretty impressed. I did some easy driving at varying RPM to let the ECU do its thing, gradually giving it more throttle. I put about 10-15 miles one it and made it back home with no issue. I haven’t floored it yet, mostly because once I put the carpet back in (added some insulation) I’m not getting 100% throttle.
Here’s some initial thoughts:
Exhaust note is much different. I feel like it’s a higher pitch and less “grunty”. Still sounds awesome.
The engine runs much smoother. The 408 sounded and felt like it was wanting to be shifted at 3500 when just normal driving. This thing is just as smooth and happy at 4500 as it is at idle.
Throttle spring is much stiffer on that 90mm. Going to have to train my foot on the input required.
Seems like noticeably less torque off idle. I may not be able to start autocross in 2nd like I did with the 408. This may also be related to my foot being a slow learner and using muscle memory.
It pulls pretty damn good, but not quite up to the 408 yet. Note I haven’t done any timing tuning (very conservative) and it was almost 100 degrees when I was out. Also-not 100% throttle. The 408 did seem to be down on power when it’s this hot out.
I did about 6 long pulls in a row a temp got to 200. It dropped to 190 when I stopped hammering on it.
Overall I’m super pleased and it’s definitely a great start to what I think will be an excellent platform for this car. Planning on putting some miles on it this week to keep dialing in the fuel. Also need to fix that throttle!!!
I decided to try the auto tune function in tuner studio. I never used it before but figured it was worth a try. So I set off for my first drive. I hadn’t even gotten off my street and I could see the auto tune doing its thing. It was starting to get super lean and within a second it brought it to the value on my AFR table. I was pretty impressed. I did some easy driving at varying RPM to let the ECU do its thing, gradually giving it more throttle. I put about 10-15 miles one it and made it back home with no issue. I haven’t floored it yet, mostly because once I put the carpet back in (added some insulation) I’m not getting 100% throttle.
Here’s some initial thoughts:
Exhaust note is much different. I feel like it’s a higher pitch and less “grunty”. Still sounds awesome.
The engine runs much smoother. The 408 sounded and felt like it was wanting to be shifted at 3500 when just normal driving. This thing is just as smooth and happy at 4500 as it is at idle.
Throttle spring is much stiffer on that 90mm. Going to have to train my foot on the input required.
Seems like noticeably less torque off idle. I may not be able to start autocross in 2nd like I did with the 408. This may also be related to my foot being a slow learner and using muscle memory.
It pulls pretty damn good, but not quite up to the 408 yet. Note I haven’t done any timing tuning (very conservative) and it was almost 100 degrees when I was out. Also-not 100% throttle. The 408 did seem to be down on power when it’s this hot out.
I did about 6 long pulls in a row a temp got to 200. It dropped to 190 when I stopped hammering on it.
Overall I’m super pleased and it’s definitely a great start to what I think will be an excellent platform for this car. Planning on putting some miles on it this week to keep dialing in the fuel. Also need to fix that throttle!!!
I bet you had a big smile on your face after driving it and have little to no issues. I know I would.
That's awesome.. Running and driving with plenty of time left to enjoy it, before it's cold again. The Hemi is definitely happy at just about any RPM. I've found that the Dart feels pretty normal, just as a daily, but when you put a foot deep in it's ***.. It's a completely different machine. I think once you get everything dialed in and wot, you should be very pleased. BIG GRIN! I can't remember what cam you went with but that may be why it feels a little less torqish off idle.. but I'm sure it makes that power elsewhere.
racerjoe
Well-Known Member
I had to force myself to come home with it after I realized I was out for a while and should likely go home and check stuff over. No oil or coolant drips! I may be more happy about no oil drips than the new exhaust note! Hahaha.
The good news is, the winter rarely shuts me down from driving, unless its a wet winter.
I've got the Cam Motion Titan 2 cam, which is 225/235 @ .050 and .594/.577 lift. They don't have a published PRM range, but they do recommend a 28-3500 converter (I don't that crap) and state "improved power in the midrange and upper RPM with emphasis on midrange power and torque." This is the reason I chose this cam. I felt like it would be good on the autocross. I can definitely feel it "turn on" the torque. I have a feeling I'll be bumping the rev limiter until I can train my ears again. It's so smooth I feel like I'm at a lower RPM and look down and I'm at 5500.
Side note I forgot to mention, my homemade one wire alternator modification works beautifully! $50 1 wire alternator, yes please!
Also a follow up to me being concerned about the oil pressure, Once the oil is warm, pressure is around 50 at idle. When cruising its around 70. I'm good with that!
Agree on the RPM feel and sound.. I'm at 3k doing 70 and it doesn't bother me. Drove me batty with the LA. I'll probably do some trans upgrades this winter and honestly, I'm not even sure I'll go with an OD. I just don't care for this lockup 904 (that doesn't lock), so a 727 and a stahl would be a great improvement. Might go through the engine too.. pop some caps, check things over, cam and a tune. Need to add front disc as well. Already have next years Power Tour on the brain. Hindsight stuff and anything to avoid a paint project... Have I mentioned how much I hate paint and body. It's the Devil!!
racerjoe
Well-Known Member
Could always throw a gear vendors on the 727 later if you change your mind about OD. Those things are kinda spendy though.
racerjoe
Well-Known Member
Ok throttle cable is fixed and I get 100% throttle. It also moves easier. Maybe it was in a slight bind before.
More driving and tuning and all I have to say is this MFer scoots!!!!
I found the rev limiter as expected. The cam really turns on around 3500 and doesn’t stop before my limiter.
As some have said, I finally have a big smile and it’s no where near done tuning.
When I first got my efi going on the 408, I said I’d never buy a carb again. I think I’ve lost my love for the 408 and I’ll never use one again.
More driving and tuning and all I have to say is this MFer scoots!!!!
I found the rev limiter as expected. The cam really turns on around 3500 and doesn’t stop before my limiter.
As some have said, I finally have a big smile and it’s no where near done tuning.
When I first got my efi going on the 408, I said I’d never buy a carb again. I think I’ve lost my love for the 408 and I’ll never use one again.
YES!!! It's a hard thing explain, but once you experience it.. Nothing else will ever feel the same. Glad you finally got that Hemi Grin
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racerjoe
Well-Known Member
Now to get the AC back up and running. It's HOT! I think I have my hose routing figured out, so I just need to order some fittings and hose to get it done.
I'm planning on going to autocross on 6/23, so that gives me a week and half to get that done and also make my catch can bracket so I can get that installed. I can't think of a better way to shake the car down than driving 70 miles to beat on it, then drive 70 miles back home...
I'm planning on going to autocross on 6/23, so that gives me a week and half to get that done and also make my catch can bracket so I can get that installed. I can't think of a better way to shake the car down than driving 70 miles to beat on it, then drive 70 miles back home...
racerjoe
Well-Known Member
One more piece of the puzzle knocked out. Whipped up a catch can bracket last night. I wanted to hide this somewhere badly, but it also needs to be serviceable so here it is. The bracket is made from a piece of 2" flat bar whittled into something that doesn't look like flat bar.
racerjoe
Well-Known Member
Last week was a mad thrash to button up a couple small items and get the AC charged so I could get to autocross over the weekend. I was able to get everything done, then my O2 sensor failed. Fortunately, I was able to find one at a local auto parts, but of course the connector was wrong. Since the wires were the same color, I decided to just try to cut the wrong connector off and splice the correct one on. Luckily, it worked. My local SCCA is currently trying new venues and the one they are trying this month is 90 miles from my house. I figured 20-30 miles of test driving would be good break in for a 180 mile trip with some autocross in between, right? The car ran flawlessly on the way to the track. Coolant temp held steady at 190 degrees the whole way with the AC on. I was super excited to try out this course since it was a combination of normal parking lot autocross and the second half was on a section of road course with some long sweeping turns. My first run started great, until I hit the slalom. The combination of pressure and flow regulators I put in the pump did not work. I pretty much lost all steering assist with fast sawing of the wheel. I was very disappointed and frustrated. All the hustling to make it to that day and I couldn't even run. I packed my **** and drove home defeated. The good news (or not good news) is the heat index was 110 when I was driving home and coolant temp never got over 190 with the AC on. I took a different route home which was all interstate and cruised at 72-75MPH with no problem.
So here's what I put in the pump and maybe some gurus can offer some advice. I used the 800-850psi pressure reducer in the pump, the one Sublime sells. and I also used the Turn one 2.5gpm flow regulator. I realize this is the combo of parts he recommends for a steering box, but I used the same pump from the steering box on the rack and it worked fine. I figured matching that would be good. Obviously I was wrong. Once I got home and the car cooled off, I took the pressure regulator out and it had 2 shims totaling .060'. I took those out and tried it. sitting still sawing the wheel feels better. This was with the engine idling. Perhaps I just didn't have enough pressure? I'll find an empty parking lot and pretend I'm doing a slalom to see if it fixed it. I sure hope it will be this easy. I've found some mixed information online regarding what pressure a T-bird/M2 rack needs. I've seen 800 and I've seen 1200. Sublime's video on the pressure regulator mentions a Corrolla pump is around 1000. Maybe I need to get one of those to try it.
Oh well, I'm sure I'll figure it out eventually. Since everyone likes pictures, here' you go.
One more thing. The regulars at auto cross that know my car stopped in there tracks when they saw the hood open and were like, "That's new!"
So here's what I put in the pump and maybe some gurus can offer some advice. I used the 800-850psi pressure reducer in the pump, the one Sublime sells. and I also used the Turn one 2.5gpm flow regulator. I realize this is the combo of parts he recommends for a steering box, but I used the same pump from the steering box on the rack and it worked fine. I figured matching that would be good. Obviously I was wrong. Once I got home and the car cooled off, I took the pressure regulator out and it had 2 shims totaling .060'. I took those out and tried it. sitting still sawing the wheel feels better. This was with the engine idling. Perhaps I just didn't have enough pressure? I'll find an empty parking lot and pretend I'm doing a slalom to see if it fixed it. I sure hope it will be this easy. I've found some mixed information online regarding what pressure a T-bird/M2 rack needs. I've seen 800 and I've seen 1200. Sublime's video on the pressure regulator mentions a Corrolla pump is around 1000. Maybe I need to get one of those to try it.
Oh well, I'm sure I'll figure it out eventually. Since everyone likes pictures, here' you go.
One more thing. The regulars at auto cross that know my car stopped in there tracks when they saw the hood open and were like, "That's new!"
I hate to hear that it wasn't the greatest time you ever had.. glad to hear it was good highway, hot day driving tho.
On my pump, I experimented alot to get to around 1000 psi and also use the same 2.5 flow regulator.. But I have a Borgeson box and I don't really do curvy track stuff either. I got pretty much closest to 1000 psi mark (Borg Recommended) with all of the shims except the thinnest one, removed from the Sublime valve. I do have a power steering analyzer that you are more than welcome to borrow.. pretty nice unit. Tells flow and pressure. BTW, I did find that my 2.5 flow, was a little light with this setup. You might need more flow.
I run a stock 6.4 PS pump.. Stock psi 1700 is what I was reading
I'll shoot ya one of them FB messages later
208Dart
Well-Known Member
Google shows 800psi for the MS2 R&P.
Is it possible that you’ve got the pressure right but the volume too low? Not sure how the regulator and reducers work in your setup.
Even with a lack of pressure you’d think you’d have enough to force it through the curves?
I’m sure you’ll sort it out.
Is it possible that you’ve got the pressure right but the volume too low? Not sure how the regulator and reducers work in your setup.
Even with a lack of pressure you’d think you’d have enough to force it through the curves?
I’m sure you’ll sort it out.
racerjoe
Well-Known Member
I've been in communication with Turn 1 and they shared this article with me. Turn One - Understanding Power Steering Pump Pressure
It's almost like they wrote it for me. @Dantra was kind enough ship his steering analyzer to me so I can determine where I am currently. I'm hoping it is as simple as increasing the pressure.
racerjoe
Well-Known Member
I'm fairly confident I have my power steering issues resolved. Ultimately, I think there were 3 problems, 2 of which were caused by my ignorance/neglect. While this is frustrating, it was a learning experience I didn't know I needed. @Dantra was kind enough to ship me his power steering analyzer to determine my pressure and flow. This was a huge help and now I owe him some beers!
Problem #1: The pressure valve is advertised to be 800-850psi and the turn 1 flow valve was supposed to be 2.5gpm. After using the analyzer, I found I was at 800psi and only 2gpm. Note that I had already drilled the flow valve out slightly. No telling what it was prior to that. I was able to find some data on the steering rack I have, which states it will operate with pumps that output 1200psi and 3gpm. Now I had a target, I just had to get there. I removed the two small shims on the pressure valve and that got me to 1000psi. Instead of buying pumps and robbing valves, I came up with an idea to increase the spring tension on the valve that would result in higher pressure. This is what I came up with. A 6-32 screw fit inside the spring and regulator body perfectly. I just ground the head flat so it would sit right. This resulted in around 1200-1300psi. Good enough for me. Next up was the flow, which was easy. I just chose my next size up drill bit. This resulted in 2.5gpm at idle and 3gpm at high RPM. Nailed it!
Problem #2: I was confident my new pressure and flow had fixed the problem, but it didn't. I went for a drive and it almost seemed worse. The problem also showed up with doing some high RPM pulls, which made me think the pump was cavitating. I get home to see the suction hose has a section that looks collapsed. This is where my neglect shows up. In my haste to get this thing done, I didn't put much thought into what type of hose I needed, nor did I inspect the type of hose the parts store supplied to me. It was heater hose. No Bueno! I found the proper hose locally and replaced it. Again, I was confident it was fixed. Wrong!!!
Problem #3: When I pulled the cap off the reservoir, it was under a vacuum. (not a vented cap) I started doing some research and found an article about PS reservoir venting. Turns out all the symptoms of a non-vented cap are exactly what I was seeing. I really didn't want to purchase another reservoir just for the sake of having vented cap. I also searched to see if the brand tank I had offered a vented cap, which they do not. After thinking about how to accomplish a vented cap, this is what I came up with.
This is just a 1/8npt coupling that I drilled the threads out on one side. I then "turned" a nut down to fit in there (nut on all thread in a drill while sanding on a belt sander), and soldered it in. Next was a small hole through a bolt and some o-rings to seal it up. I'm planning to get one of those sintered brass pneumatic vents to put on top of the coupling. All the cavitation I was having wreaked havoc on the oil. I decided to take the pump apart to make sure nothing was damaged. All looked good, so back together it went. With some fresh fluid in the tank, I went for a ride. All seems good now. However, the fluid is still getting to 200 degrees. I'm going to install a cooler to try to lower this temperature.
I traded some emails with someone at Turn 1 steering. He was the one that told me not to fear having too much pressure. The rack will only demand what's needed. It's not like I'm going to ever hold it at full lock. He also mentioned the vented cap. They do offer a drop in pump for the G3 hemi, and its very expensive. While I'm sure there are some advantages to using their pump, I don't see why a properly dialed stock pump won't work. However, this could be my ignorance speaking again. I'm sure they install ball bearing in place of the bushings and likely have some tighter tolerances on things. Do I really need that? I don't know. Perhaps if I were road racing, but these pumps were designed to last hundreds of thousands of miles on a street car. I don't see any reason why it won't last on my weekend cruiser. I'm hoping my ignorance doesn't come stab me in the back for that statement!
Problem #1: The pressure valve is advertised to be 800-850psi and the turn 1 flow valve was supposed to be 2.5gpm. After using the analyzer, I found I was at 800psi and only 2gpm. Note that I had already drilled the flow valve out slightly. No telling what it was prior to that. I was able to find some data on the steering rack I have, which states it will operate with pumps that output 1200psi and 3gpm. Now I had a target, I just had to get there. I removed the two small shims on the pressure valve and that got me to 1000psi. Instead of buying pumps and robbing valves, I came up with an idea to increase the spring tension on the valve that would result in higher pressure. This is what I came up with. A 6-32 screw fit inside the spring and regulator body perfectly. I just ground the head flat so it would sit right. This resulted in around 1200-1300psi. Good enough for me. Next up was the flow, which was easy. I just chose my next size up drill bit. This resulted in 2.5gpm at idle and 3gpm at high RPM. Nailed it!
Problem #2: I was confident my new pressure and flow had fixed the problem, but it didn't. I went for a drive and it almost seemed worse. The problem also showed up with doing some high RPM pulls, which made me think the pump was cavitating. I get home to see the suction hose has a section that looks collapsed. This is where my neglect shows up. In my haste to get this thing done, I didn't put much thought into what type of hose I needed, nor did I inspect the type of hose the parts store supplied to me. It was heater hose. No Bueno! I found the proper hose locally and replaced it. Again, I was confident it was fixed. Wrong!!!
Problem #3: When I pulled the cap off the reservoir, it was under a vacuum. (not a vented cap) I started doing some research and found an article about PS reservoir venting. Turns out all the symptoms of a non-vented cap are exactly what I was seeing. I really didn't want to purchase another reservoir just for the sake of having vented cap. I also searched to see if the brand tank I had offered a vented cap, which they do not. After thinking about how to accomplish a vented cap, this is what I came up with.
This is just a 1/8npt coupling that I drilled the threads out on one side. I then "turned" a nut down to fit in there (nut on all thread in a drill while sanding on a belt sander), and soldered it in. Next was a small hole through a bolt and some o-rings to seal it up. I'm planning to get one of those sintered brass pneumatic vents to put on top of the coupling. All the cavitation I was having wreaked havoc on the oil. I decided to take the pump apart to make sure nothing was damaged. All looked good, so back together it went. With some fresh fluid in the tank, I went for a ride. All seems good now. However, the fluid is still getting to 200 degrees. I'm going to install a cooler to try to lower this temperature.
I traded some emails with someone at Turn 1 steering. He was the one that told me not to fear having too much pressure. The rack will only demand what's needed. It's not like I'm going to ever hold it at full lock. He also mentioned the vented cap. They do offer a drop in pump for the G3 hemi, and its very expensive. While I'm sure there are some advantages to using their pump, I don't see why a properly dialed stock pump won't work. However, this could be my ignorance speaking again. I'm sure they install ball bearing in place of the bushings and likely have some tighter tolerances on things. Do I really need that? I don't know. Perhaps if I were road racing, but these pumps were designed to last hundreds of thousands of miles on a street car. I don't see any reason why it won't last on my weekend cruiser. I'm hoping my ignorance doesn't come stab me in the back for that statement!
Nice to see a progress report so detailed. I may have mentioned it, but I found the same thing with the turn 1 flow valve.. never did see a flow of 2.5.. was more like 1.5. I don't drive all zippty zip through parking lots full of orange cones, so I really don't have any problems 
Beers.... mmmm
Beers.... mmmm
racerjoe
Well-Known Member
I know forums are mostly a dead resource, but I hope someone can find this one day to help them solve their problems. I consider the time it takes me to update this page is worth paying it forward for the education I've received over the years.Nice to see a progress report so detailed. I may have mentioned it, but I found the same thing with the turn 1 flow valve.. never did see a flow of 2.5.. was more like 1.5. I don't drive all zippty zip through parking lots full of orange cones, so I really don't have any problems
Beers.... mmmm
Agreed. I get alot of questions on the fb about this or that and I'm happy to offer anything I know.. Lord knows, I asked my share and enjoy paying forward.
DionR
Well-Known Member
Now try and go find that info a couple of months later. FB sucks for research, IMO it's only for people to ask questions.
It's a great place to see what people are doing and get ideas, but social media is dumbing down society and creating people that can't look things up for themselves.
At least here I can go read a thread myself and see if Joe added subframe connectors and/or torque boxes before asking him.
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racerjoe
Well-Known Member
I forgot to mention I also added a secondary return spring to the throttle body. I'm not sure why I didn't think to add one earlier on, but it's on there now for safety reasons. Who knows if that Chinese knockoff throttle body will decide to quit doing spring things.
Kiddart1
Well-Known Member
Racerjoe, can you share your idea. I need to add one to my TB as well just for safety reasons.
racerjoe
Well-Known Member
Of course, but I doubt your setup is anything like mine considering I made the throttle cable bracket and the bracket for the cable to connect to the throttle body.
racerjoe
Well-Known Member
I added a cooler to the return line. It’s a plate and tube style with 10 plates. It’s approximately 12” wide. I did a quick 10 mile ride after I got done, which would had previously made the fluid 200+ degrees. I shot it with the infrared immediately when I got back and it was down to 170.
Last night, I took a ride to a cruise night about 30 miles away on mostly interstate. Shot it when I got home and it was 160. I’d say the cooler is working great. It isn’t even in the path of direct air flow. It’s mounted horizontally under my radiator. I’m pretty confident my steering issues are 100% fixed now.
Now in to the next issue….I’m not sure what that will be, but I’m sure something will come up with more driving. I’m probably around I have about 300 miles on the swap so far. Thankfully no major issues.
Oh I also made some timing table adjustments that aren’t as conservative. The but dyno says it was an improvement.
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