Hotchkis leaf springs sagg brand-new

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72BBSwinger said:
Judging by the picture of his leafs, spring wrap killed them. They are flat until the front edge of the spring plate where they're kinked. It's plain as day.
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Exactly, and since there is no way 275 aspect street tires are going to hook enough to wrap the spring, I'll assume its suspension bind caused by the snubber and the floor board. As I said, I need to speak with the owner about his car so we can get this figured out.
 
Sorry for dropping off the map, busy week at work, then this weekend was the 14th(?) annual Lake Mirror Car show in Lakeland, FL. I fly out for the week tomorrow morning for work, but I will be sure to get with you about these springs.

And I think your right about my pinion angle, I think I set it at 5 degrees, which is what my driveline needed. I don't know what it is now, I don't have an angle finder up here (our shop is 2hrs south of where I live). However, even if I was at 10 degrees of pinion angle, that's under 1.5 inch difference in height at the u-joint than 3 degrees.
I did some quick statics on the springs, the torque imposed on the leaves from the engine/diff is minimal in comparison to even a small bump from the snubber, this has to be the cause. With that being said, I never had as much clearance as you are showing Dan with the A-body in your pictures (ESPECIALLY since there are 2" blocks on it??!). What u-joint is on that driveshaft? The closest my driveline comes to the floor is the u-joint, I don't think I ever had more than 2" of clearance, and that's being generous (I have 1350 u-joints). Your suggesting that there should be 6.5" clearance(taking the blocks out)? -Never, ive even bashed the freshly painted floor in w/ a hammer at this location to get that.
I don't know what conclusion or resolution we will come to, but I do know I will not be putting another set of leaf springs on this car.
 
The factory springs never had issues with bind or torque imposed by the pinion snubber that I have ever seen. Adjustable pinion snubbers - changing the engagement point of rotation doesn't adversely affect normal springs, so yours being tweaked under the axle perches is a sign of weakness, not acceptable or expected considering that they should be designed to be as robust or more than factory and function in unison with the remaining factory setup.
 
Dustbull,
Haven't heard from you via phone or this site. I'd still like to help you with your problem, as I believe it will persist even with a multi link rear. We have a car in the shop now that installed a "bolt in" multilink system and he had it set high to avoid pinion and exhaust clearance issues. Needless to say, the system was binding and wrapping enough to start tearing sheet metal after 800 miles behind a 600 hp 426cid 3rd Gen Hemi. Give me a call or shoot me an e-mail if you have any questions.
 
Thank you, and I apologize, ive just been really busy with work and my truck project that I have to get done before I can decommission the demon for any amount of time. Im not planning on a "bolt in" multi link system; Im very confident that i can properly designed (in 3D CAD) a multi link rear end with the proper spring rate for a stock (or close to stock) ride height, that will not have any clearance issues.
 
dustbull said:
Thank you, and I apologize, ive just been really busy with work and my truck project that I have to get done before I can decommission the demon for any amount of time. Im not planning on a "bolt in" multi link system; Im very confident that i can properly designed (in 3D CAD) a multi link rear end with the proper spring rate for a stock (or close to stock) ride height, that will not have any clearance issues.
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Very cool. Best of luck.
 
im running a 8.8 explorer rear in my dart sport with hotchkis springs factory rear hangers n i just put front hothkis mounts back in i took em out at first cause it did sit low in the rear but i recently went to 17s up front n 18s in the rear. when i did that n went to a 27" tire the car had a bad rake to it putting the front hotchkis mounts on set it just right i been running the hotchkis springs for about a year with a fair amount of driving. the yoke n drives shaft comes no place close to the floor like yours does i think the dana 60 is goin to be your culprit n how thick are the spring perches on the rear? i have seen various height differences in the mounting heigth of weld on perches that alone has a lift/lowering effect
 
If you look at DTMRacings post, depicting their current project it shows that there is 4" of clearance in the driveshaft tunnel WITH 2" blocks under the axle (so 6" clearance); my perches aren't big, I think they are comparable to stock (you can see them in some of my pics). I doubt I have much over 2.5" clearance sitting as I am.

I went so far as to think maybe the dana 60's Hypoid offset is significantly more than ford 9 inch or Chrysler 8.75, below is the article- its negligible in my opinion.

http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/ccrp_0806_chevy_chevelle_rear_axle_swap/viewall.html

Add less than 1/2" for the Hypoid offset bringing the yoke closer, 1" for thick perches, 1/2" for a 1350 vs 1310 yoke, ill even assume my pinion angle is severely off @ 1-1/2" higher and I should still have ~4" of clearance similar to the pics DTMR provided. Sorry, im not convinced its the Danas fault.

Whatever caused this doesn't really matter to me anymore, my truck is done and im moving forward with my plans of pulling the Demon from the road; with any luck those Hotchkis springs will be in the garbage by new years. But I have learned lessons from this experience, so at least theres that. Ill put my GoPro under the car within a week or so just for some fun and do a couple hard pulls.
 
Ill see how it feels that day, but I will show how the springs cant even take a common-sized bump in the road, and never have been able to. Im interested in seeing whats actually happening down there-how far the diff still travels after the snubber hits. Im almost positive the top of the axle is hitting the frame rail bump stops in addition to the snubber hitting the tunnel (which obviously occurs first, and yes bump stops are part of a properly designed suspension, but should not to the extent im theorizing).
 
Well, this subject always brings out the worst in me, but I just came back from driving the Demon for the last time before its revamp.

I must say I am pretty amazed at the video. I knew the springs would bow under acceleration (which after seeing the video the pinion snubber does not look to hit the stopper-I can also hear when driving when it does make contact) but I was amazed at how the springs inverted their bow on deceleration; I wish I did more decaleration and some hard braking to document this as well. Maybe while im tuning in the efi...

[ame]http://youtu.be/hMtr1ZsSXFs[/ame]

Here are a couple screen shots of acceleration and the inverted deceleration bowing.
Acceleration:


Deceleration:
 
I can't say I'm surprised. Wish I could get my money back, my first clue should've been when after 500 miles the car needed a 2* shim to be back where I set it originally.
 
After my experience with those springs it was clear to me they were designed for a light 108" wheelbase car, not a heavier 111" wheelbase Dart. I have a solution for these springs but most want the cheapest parts they can get.
 
I wanted to do a four link right away when building the demon, but the list of switching everything over from the duster in the time allotted was too much. I thought id give these 'performance' springs a chance, turns out they're less stiff than slant six leaf springs (whether defective or not).
 
GMachineDartGT said:
After my experience with those springs it was clear to me they were designed for a light 108" wheelbase car, not a heavier 111" wheelbase Dart. I have a solution for these springs but most want the cheapest parts they can get.
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Not to stir the pot.(esp since I have worn stock everything) but, even the heaviest A is only 100-200lbs more than what would be an average abode weight.

Would that small of a weight make such a difference?
 
It did for me and Scrapyard Scamp. Both if us had to take them off. FYI, my car weighs 3600 without me. I've weighed 108 wheelbase cars at 3,000 even.
 
My 2 cents,

I wont buy Hotchkis leafs again. My experience could be entirely my fault....I'm no expert....and prolly not the sharpest tool in the shed.

Replaced old sagging leafs that previous owner used a grinder on to make room for 275 wide tires....replaced w/ Hotchkis road race leafs. Car sat much lower than w/ old saggers. Put original front mounts back on. Some time in between spirited driving expeditions I noticed the leaf shims were falling out and leaf bands looked like they had shifted a short distance, I decided to worry about it later. Any more than 2 peeps aboard and rear would bottom out. (looking back,,,I think the pin in middle of spring stack was broken at this point)

Next spirited driving session ended w/ right rear leaf stack re-assembling itself in a new order and sheared bolts on rear u joint. (drive shaft gets to chill out in the trunk, tow truck driver got a free 18 pack of bud light.)

Local leaf shop re-assembled leafs w/ 1 extra thick leaf on each side and replaced the sheared pins. New setup rides and corners much much much better. I cant justify the expense on Hotchkis stuff n e more.
 
Tim,
Could you please call me directly on my cell phone when you get the chance? We'd love to continue working with you on you problem.Thank you.

8five8-4seven2-9one54
 
not sure if this is a factor... but I do believe that the dana 60 rears are 50 or even 75 lbs heavier than the 8.75's. especially if you have the HD version

so on deceleration you have all that extra beef to compensate for as well
 
Dan, I replied on protouring as well, but the car is parked until my fuel injection swap is done, then im driving it to my dads shop to rebuild the trans and trash these springs.

Im not sure what this car weighs, but its pretty stripped down (except for the 5pt cage and battery in the trunk) I cant imagine that it weighs anywhere near 3400lbs-maybe with me in it, and some fuel.

Im no expert, but I know unsprung weight is a huge deal, but im not sure how that would affect the springs.
You can see how the differential jerks forward and backward when im lugging it in 2nd gear or rolling into and out of it, that seems more a cause of torque, but the differentials mass may be adversely affecting this but I cant imagine.
 
So wait.... Earlier you were complaining that Hotchkis wouldnt replace the springs no questions asked. Now you have a representative on here giving you his direct number so he can work with you andnfix your issue but you wont call him cause you're just gonna shitcan the springs?

WTH man.....
 
15 months, a new job, a second vehicle, and more free time has allowed me to be more flexible with how long I can let the demon sit-priorities change.
I never said i wasn't going to call Dan, in fact on the other forum I said I will be calling him tomorrow. Ive been in contact with Dan since before I even started this thread, and I had gotten nowhere except having been told that it was my fault (and it may be, but im not and havnt been very convinced). There's no saving these springs, the only place for this set is the 'shitcan'
 
dustbull said:
Dan, I replied on protouring as well, but the car is parked until my fuel injection swap is done, then im driving it to my dads shop to rebuild the trans and trash these springs.
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Absolutely. You've had my contact info since October (when we tried to warranty or refund your springs), but I know you've been on the fence about keeping it leafs or 4 link. After I get some info, John Hotchkis would like to personally call you to make this right. I'm pretty confident that we can fix your car and keep it leafs, but I still need some basic information on your car to ensure that they are installed correctly.

We'd really like to get the springs back to check the metallurgy and rates. Its a QC thing for us. In the 1000's of sets of springs we've sold, you can count on your hands how many we've had that were truly bad from the factory. You may want to buy some lotto tickets.
 
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