hydraulic clutch in A body

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woody30

woody30

woody30
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Anybody done a hydraulic clutch system in their A body?? Seems like a good idea. Save room for headers etc. Let me know.
 
Yes.

There are a lot of ways to do it. Some folks are using a hydraulic bearing, while others are using a pull type slave cylinder.

The formula you are looking for is a 7/8" master cylinder, with either one. The pull type gets you away from the bell/ exhaust and allows you to keep the fork and clutch assembly the same.

I'm going to do the pull slave, even though the hydraulic bearing saves more room. I like the idea of being able to replace the slave cylinder without removing the trans from the bellhousing.
 
Haven't done it but looked into the American powertrain setup. Didn't like the way you have to set it up. It requires shims behind the throw out bearing. When the clutch wears you have to add more shims. Who wants to pull a trans just to adjust a clutch???
 
I cheated and put in a 6 speed with an internal throwout, but the master cylinder side would be the same either way. Took my inspiration from another member's setup of a horizontally mounted slave right next to the brake master cylinder. So far it's been working out pretty well. My old mechanical setup was made of all sorts of different parts though, so I don't think it ever quite released correctly. The hydraulic offers much more consistent modulation and as you mentioned is way nicer to work with around headers.
 
I would like to see/learn more about the hydraulic clutch system, my son said he can add
one to my 66 /6 Valiant (not the internal throw out bearing) but a hydraulic push/hydraulic
rod to the clutch fork... any pictures of this set up anywhere ?
 
I know there have been several setups shown and discussed on this forum before. You'd have to do a little digging to find them, but generally a search for "hydraulic clutch" would get you pretty close. I think someone did a push style setup with a Toyota slave if I recall in the past as it was the cheapest easiest one he could get a hold of. I think the pull types are maybe a little more common as a retrofit since they're usually a little easier to work our mounting for. You have to have a pretty compact slave as I recall to fit in front of the clutch fork and around exhaust.
 
Map63Vette said:
I know there have been several setups shown and discussed on this forum before. You'd have to do a little digging to find them, but generally a search for "hydraulic clutch" would get you pretty close. I think someone did a push style setup with a Toyota slave if I recall in the past as it was the cheapest easiest one he could get a hold of. I think the pull types are maybe a little more common as a retrofit since they're usually a little easier to work our mounting for. You have to have a pretty compact slave as I recall to fit in front of the clutch fork and around exhaust.
Click to expand...
Thank you :glasses7: and I will do some digging and see what I can find Map63Vette :cheers:, now would be a good time to go searching :coffee2:
Creed (my son) and I have dun this to circle track cars, and they use the throw out bearing 80% of the time , but in Hobby cars he has dun this and said Dirt Works (parts Co.) has a kit like you are saying, it is a pull system if I remember right :glasses7: Again :glasses7: Thank you :smile:
 
My T5 converted '65 Valiant has an Annular T/O (Hyd.) bearing. The shims aren't for adjusting, they're spacers for rough placement. The unit has a threaded sleeve for fine adjustment. And you don't adjust them once you have the spacing correct, they're self-adjusting because the PP will only push them back so far and that's all the further that they move. So the adjustment that you do need to make only determines where in the pedal travel you want the feather point to be. After that there is no more adjusting necessary for the life of the clutch.

7/8" MC is not correct. Most run a 5/8" MC, some use a 3/4" MC with really high pedal ratios.

Wilwood p/n 260-1333 is the pull type slave cylinder.

I can add some pics if there's interest.
 
ntsqd said:
My T5 converted '65 Valiant has an Annular T/O (Hyd.) bearing. The shims aren't for adjusting, they're spacers for rough placement. The unit has a threaded sleeve for fine adjustment. And you don't adjust them once you have the spacing correct, they're self-adjusting because the PP will only push them back so far and that's all the further that they move. So the adjustment that you do need to make only determines where in the pedal travel you want the feather point to be. After that there is no more adjusting necessary for the life of the clutch.

7/8" MC is not correct. Most run a 5/8" MC, some use a 3/4" MC with really high pedal ratios.

Wilwood p/n 260-1333 is the pull type slave cylinder.

I can add some pics if there's interest.
Click to expand...

Yes please :coffee2:
 
memike said:
Yes please :coffee2:
Click to expand...
What I have currently, didn't realize that I had so many of this as I've not intentionally taken pics of the clutch system:
i-dw3fvhH-M.jpg


i-6WdTGjD-M.jpg


i-h3ff4Tf-M.jpg


I don't have any of under the dash. Can take some this afternoon.
 
ntsqd said:
My T5 converted '65 Valiant has an Annular T/O (Hyd.) bearing. The shims aren't for adjusting, they're spacers for rough placement. The unit has a threaded sleeve for fine adjustment. And you don't adjust them once you have the spacing correct, they're self-adjusting because the PP will only push them back so far and that's all the further that they move. So the adjustment that you do need to make only determines where in the pedal travel you want the feather point to be. After that there is no more adjusting necessary for the life of the clutch.

7/8" MC is not correct. Most run a 5/8" MC, some use a 3/4" MC with really high pedal ratios.

Wilwood p/n 260-1333 is the pull type slave cylinder.

I can add some pics if there's interest.
Click to expand...

Some of the bore sizing is dependent on the slave cylinder choice as well. I'm running a 7/8" master to go with my T56 slave. You can tune the feel and travel using the bores or the pedal ratio. It becomes a pretty big game of variables, so typically the easiest thing to do is just fix a few or try to match a master to whatever slave you choose. For instance an X brand slave might be 5/8, so you might pick a 5/8 master to match it. A larger master will reduce pedal travel at the cost of pressure. Similarly, a smaller bore will make for an easier pedal, but you'll need more travel to move the same amount of fluid. The same can be said about the pickup point of the master on the pedal itself. Move the master connection closer to the pedal pivot and you get a softer pedal, but less travel. Move it further down and your travel goes up, but your pressure does as well. I cheated and just copied someone elses geometry and choices, but if you read up on the other threads you'll see most are pretty similar to begin with.
 
Going back ~50 years the 5/8" MC has been what was used for clutches 90+% of the time. This with pedal ratios in the 5:1 to 7:1 range, which is the most common. It figures that these young OE engineers would screw that up.
 
Thank you ntsqd :cheers: Pictures sure do help :glasses7: this thread should help many members for years to come It sure helped me understand more
 
Here's how I did mine. I have since removed the bracket since the angle was not straight and bolted it to the trans crossmember bolt with a much shorter bracket.
 

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Working on mine slowly also... pull-type slave cylinder with similar bracket made from 1/8" steel plate underneath; Wilwood 3/4" master with reinforcing plate also of 1/8" steel. Pedal has a 2-1/4" piece of 1/8" thick wall pipe welded to it with the center of the hole exactly 2" from the pivot point. There is a nut welded to the end of the pipe, and a 3-1/2" 5/16 Grade 8 bolt passing through to strengthen the extension. Then the 5/16-24 Heim joint is just fastened to the protruding bolt threads with another nut. Guess I will see if this is strong enough without gusseting the pipe or using a 3/16 or 1/4 firewall reinforcement, when I get the hydraulic line run to the slave :) Assuming a 50 lb pedal pressure, which is pretty firm, and a measured 6:1 pedal ratio, that still is only 300 lb on the welded piece.
The other unknown is whether pulling at the original hole on the end of the fork will provide enough travel to fully disengage the clutch. Since I have a scattershield there is no easy way to measure the plate departure directly...
 

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ntsqd said:
Going back ~50 years the 5/8" MC has been what was used for clutches 90+% of the time. This with pedal ratios in the 5:1 to 7:1 range, which is the most common. It figures that these young OE engineers would screw that up.
Click to expand...
Nothing is set in stone EVAR!!! LOL! I also use a 7/8" bore Wilwood WITH A FACTORY VIPER SLAVE CYLINDER. I love it, im not a fan of the "feel" of some factory hydraulic clutch setups, particularly Fords, and right or wrong its just not to my taste. Mine FEELS like a clutch should IMO. Your results may vary....
 

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Very handy thread. Making the pedal assembly scares me a little. I'm definitely eyeballing that american powertrain kit, now, thanks for mentioning it previously.

And 72BB, how is your goal of a 10 second viper smashing classic mopar coming along? ;)
 
I'm not a fan of "oil can" clutches, but there should be enough pedal feel to to make driving "tactile".

The clutch pedal isn't the same as the brake pedal. Don't be intimidated by it.
 
I copied 72BB's setup and have been pretty happy so far. I had to tweak the link length on the pedal to the master a few times to get a decent height and enough travel for my clutch to disengage. I think I may still need some heat wrap though, or another bleed. It's not really close to any heat and I have ceramic coated headers, but the engagement point just slightly changes after the car gets good and hot. Guessing there's just a touch of air in there somewhere.
 
I should probably re-make the bulkhead at the bell-housing for mine. The pressure line is quite close to the exhaust, but with the silicone/fiberglass insulator tube on it I haven't noticed a change in feather point or any other heat related misbehavior.

i-kVd2cFb-M.jpg


My clutch pedal arrangement isn't much different from the pic posted above, including using an SRE on the end of the push-rod. It is welded to the pedal rather what appears to be bolted with a long spacer, but I doubt that makes much difference. If the PP were something more than stock I'd likely need to add a gusset or two, but its fine as-is.
 
Mine seems to not like going into gear at a complete stop on my way home from work after I get off the highway sometimes. The first time it did this it was because the bolt holding the master to the pedal came loose as was allowing way too much play. I've since redone the spacer and bolt setup and it seems like it's staying solid, but everyone once in a while it's tough getting into gear.
 
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