Is There Value in Making a 'Clone'.

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Arch,

Wow wish I posted earlier!!! First you need to do a bunch of homework. I subscribe to Old Cars Weekly, Angelo VanBogart and Ron Kowalke are some of the best old car guys in the business. Kowalke is a historian of car prices, he publishes about 3 different price guides and Old Cars Weekly (OCW) publishes all auctions that happen thoughout the year, and they specify retro or clones as well. There guys are reporting what happens at the auctions all of them, Russo and Steele, Kruse, Mecum, and Barret Jackson. All Auctions are for us the mopar guys that live on this planet. Except Barret Jackson, thursday-sunday the prices are on a different level.

So look carefully if you are doing this just for the bucks.

It seems, to me, that the early A bodies 60-69 most folks love them to death and would have nothing else OR they hate them with a passion. Just my opinion.

My old man got me started before I was born my parents bought a brand new 65 Barracuda formula s 4 spd car. Thats what I came home from the hospital in. We all have our reasons why we do what we do, Im crazy for the little A's. If someone told me they were never going to be worth anything, I would say "thanks" and keep on building.......

But no $hit, look at OCW its a weekly, they put out good stuff on there price guides.

The big thing in the next few weeks is the Auctioning of the only 48 Tucker convertable at Russo and Steele...... I like all history of all cars... but love just the little A's......
 
this board could be a little more light hearted and less insulting. jmho Why do some people talk differently over the internet than they would face to face. Not very becoming.
 
I don't think 66cuda and 68formulaS are at each other, just voicing thier respective opinions. Both have merit and both are valid!! That's what a thread is all about, and that's what the OP is looking for, opinions!!! That said, I have read a lot about the clone market through the years and one point that I took to heart is the possibility of misrepresentation somewhere down the line. Although the original builder of the tribute car may represent the car totally honestly when deciding to sell, there are many other unscrupulous people who may capitalize on the ignorance of others when it comes to representing the vehicle when trying to resell. Not so much of an issue when selling a Formula S car, but definitely a concern when selling a high dollar car such as rare Hemi and 6pak cars. Of course, nowadays it is harder to pass of a tribute car as the real thing, but there are still many potential buyers out there who are not as informed as they should be when looking for their dream car.

I still say... build it the way you want it, just don't badge it as something it's not. And above all, don't be afraid to drive it the way you would have when they were sold new!!! And to 66cuda, I'll be looking for you down on Woodward to do some side to side burnouts with our pair of 66's!!! Geof
 
I have a 408 Duster clone with manual reverse valve body and a Dana with disc brakes. Or is it a tribute, or...

Either way, it is much faster than the original 340, stops much faster, and handles much better - 17" wheels, performance radials, 1.0" torsion bars, and SS springs. Oh, and it sounds awesome with the 3" exhaust.

That being said, you know what the #1 question I get is? "Is it an original 340 car?" followed by "does it still have the 340 in it?"

I intentionally set the 340 aside in case I blew the stroker, but now I wish I would have just kept in in there!

I did pay a little more for mine since it was a #'s matching car, and I like knowing it is. It does not make it a better or more valuable car (arguably LESS valuable) than a 340 clone, but it sells for more.

this is predicated on Value = Benefit/Price
 
66cuda said:
SWEET AS PIE amigo...SWEET AS PIE!! and a real head turner I am sure....Love the color!! what is that name of that color? Really sets off the white interior nicely....
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68, LL1 bright turquoise metalic, with clear coat.
 
kind of odd how if you don't agree with some people you are just wrong...:toothy10::toothy10:and it is the very reason why I like the ignore feature of this web site...
 
I'm a huge fan of clone cars.....IMO, if I can "create" an exact replica of what a Formula S Barracuda is....(with all Mopar parts from a donor) and with a "lower class" body as a starting point (which, many times, is much easier to find a "granny-clean" body...and waaaay cheaper to boot)....that is what I really respect and appreciate....I tell people "you go worship your fender tag....I'll worship the car as a whole for what it is, for what it was designed to be".....

Besides, if it weren't for me building and driving clones.....I wouldn't HAVE a hot Mopar, 'cuz I sure wouldn't be able to pay for the real deal. Oh and another thing.....I also hafta laugh when I see people who would rather drive a numbers-matching "real" Formula S or GTS car.....which,...may have had both quarter panels changed, it's trunk pan, floors, and...basically it's whole platform "infested" with the tin worm.....compared to EVER driving a cloned version of a Formula S or GTS......I just have to chuckle when I see those people "look down" on clone cars.

Not that I am against bringing cars back from the dead, of course not......just....hey, it's all good, clones or real deal.
 
JimmyRay...I get the same questions with my 72 340 duster and yes it is a numbers matching 340 car. What I have found is that most people that ask that question are armchair enthusiasts. I watched them as they left the shows and cruises....most everyone that asked me questions like that was driving a 2005 F150 or an Escalade or a bimmer......percentage of people that HAVE a classic that ask that question is less than 1%. My point is they dont know what else to ask? They would not know an Offenhausr from an Edlebrock or an HEI from a dual point if you waved them under thier nose. it is good that you kept the 340 intact to include as a sales bonus. But do you really think you would be as happy driving it if it was slower? or stopped like a drum brake car or didn't pull 11's? my guess is NOPE!
Next time an armchair naysayer asks you that stuff ASK them where thier classic is? if if they have one ( typically not) go check it out and ask them why they did this or why they did that LOLOLOL The people who scrutinize the most, as a rule, dont even OWN a classic!
I bet you car is SMOKIN hot, and I bet you absolutly feel giddy when you light up those tires........THAT sir is what this hobby is all about!!
IF you are having fun and your ride is a source of enjoyment and excitement, nothing else matters!!
Bring that puppy down to woodward............ for those that have never been it is a mind blowing experience! A collection of rolling hosepower and chrome and awesome paint spannin 15 miles....it truely is inspiring
 
66cuda said:
DID 68 Barracuda's ever come with wires? I thought the S cars only came with those weird hubcaps that the LONG lugs poked thru?
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FYI. All wheel covers were available on a 68 Formula S. The standard was the small dog dish that was standard on all Barracudas that year.


And again… As far as my opinion goes… It isn't even an opinion, it is a fact.

Take 2 identical cars one a clone and one a documented performance model. The clone will sell for less.

As far as building a car…… Build a car in a way that will make you happy.


The original question that started this thread was….

"Question: Will the car get a boost in value by making it into a 340-S 'Clone'?"
 
66cuda said:
JimmyRay...I get the same questions with my 72 340 duster and yes it is a numbers matching 340 car. What I have found is that most people that ask that question are armchair enthusiasts. I watched them as they left the shows and cruises....most everyone that asked me questions like that was driving a 2005 F150 or an Escalade or a bimmer......percentage of people that HAVE a classic that ask that question is less than 1%. My point is they dont know what else to ask? They would not know an Offenhausr from an Edlebrock or an HEI from a dual point if you waved them under thier nose. it is good that you kept the 340 intact to include as a sales bonus. But do you really think you would be as happy driving it if it was slower? or stopped like a drum brake car or didn't pull 11's? my guess is NOPE!
Next time an armchair naysayer asks you that stuff ASK them where thier classic is? if if they have one ( typically not) go check it out and ask them why they did this or why they did that LOLOLOL The people who scrutinize the most, as a rule, dont even OWN a classic!
I bet you car is SMOKIN hot, and I bet you absolutly feel giddy when you light up those tires........THAT sir is what this hobby is all about!!
IF you are having fun and your ride is a source of enjoyment and excitement, nothing else matters!!
Bring that puppy down to woodward............ for those that have never been it is a mind blowing experience! A collection of rolling hosepower and chrome and awesome paint spannin 15 miles....it truely is inspiring
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I'm with you on that! I wanted to build it like I could not afford to in 1982, and am livin' it up now. Just sometimes I think I would have come out better stroking the 340 (to 416) instead of a roller 360. But I don't, at this point, have any interest in trading the 408 torque for the old 340!

You make a good point about those asking quesions. I think a lot of them are just making conversation whilst the ogle the car, which is fine by me. It is literally like driving antique art, but without the ROI.
 
NO OFFENSE 68s But you sir are not anything remotely close to what I consider a valid source for FACTS of anykind....
Intersting and seemingly opinionated character, yes.... Reliable source of FACT, no
Have a great Day


Arch
Put the 340 in that car, it is likely going to be worth more to a wider audience as a muscle car than it will be as a /6... BUT do not plan on retiring on the profits ( if any)
dress it up and take it "dancing" N joy
hoo-rah
 
66cuda said:
NO OFFENSE 68s But you sir are not anything remotely close to what I consider a valid source for FACTS of anykind....
Intersting and seemingly opinionated character, yes.... Reliable source of FACT, no
Have a great Day
Click to expand...



LOL are you still arguing that I am wrong on this?

Take 2 identical cars one a clone and one a documented performance model. The clone will sell for less.


I hope you aren't talking about the wires being available on the Formula S…..

If so, here is something for you to look at….

http://www.tocmp.com/brochures/Plymouth/1968/Barracuda/index.html
 
Since the Formula-S stuff is easily installed & removed (except for the 340), I may just use my stuff for the fun of it. If I ever sell, the car could go back to original.

I never was for putting a lot of $$$ into maiking this a clone, remember, I'm just reusing my existing parts. I might sell the parts, but for now, I'll just mess around w/ them.
 
BTW, There have been a lot of great replies here. it's good to tap the brains of people who know what they're talking about.
 
68S No argument at all, moved past that

and Yes I was asking if wires were an option for the 2nd gen Barracuda's, I have only seen 2nd gen formula S cars with the sloted hubcaps that require the extra long chrome lug nuts pokin thru the lug holes or bottle caps or Cragars or 70's rallye wheels or torq thrusts ....I have not seen an S car with wires, hence the question AND I could not tell from your avatar what kind of wheels were on it until you informed me.
 
Arch,

Hey uh, I think we got waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay of base on this topic, I have been thinking though, I suppose if you started off with not much invested dollar wise you would make money if you counted your labor, like I do.... cheap. To me its a hobby so when I sell a car I don't really count the time I personally have in it, just parts costs and any out side labor I had to have done.

Just don't let anyone sway you either way, its yours do what you want to it.
 
So I guess a value increase for a "clone" that never was (such as my Toad with a built 360, 727, 8-3/4" SureGrip, disc brakes and 15" X 8" wheels) is out of the question, huh?

"A young, good-looking, stuck-up yuppie lawyer was in the city for a court appearance one day when her BMW broke down and she had to take the Greyhound bus home. Unfortunately, when she boarded the bus the only remaining seat was next to a stinky, dirty, disheveled bum who was carrying a rotten tuna sandwich in a paper bag. The yuppie woman reluctantly sat down next to him and tried her best to ignore both him and the smell. The bum tried to make conversation with her, to no avail. She studiously avoided acknowledging him. Finally, the bum pulled his rancid tuna sandwich out of its bag and offered her a bite. 'Leave me alone, you gross, sickening, filthy, miserable excuse for a human being!' she replied. 'So I guess sexual intercourse is out of the question then, huh?' the bum asked."
 
The sentiment here is pretty much the same everywhere. Unless your doing a hemi car you will probably not double your dough.
Just build your dream clone and enjoy. Even the 340 '68 & '69 cudas are getting out of reach for us average joes. :-D
 
I guess I define clone different. A clone is correct in every way. All options, all parts are factory and needed to be on the car being duplicated... Meaning a '69 318 Barracuda with a 440 is not an M car clone. Not until it has the correct K frame, the correct wheels, manifolding, striping, interior and gages, etc. In that case, clones could be worth more than the base car. But for the model you have... No, there's little more value. Some, but not much. A friend sold my old car.. a '71 Barracuda Deputy car after he cloned a '71 440+6 car. Everything was factory parts and everything was done right. Hemi box, skid plate K frame, torque boxes, Dana, suspension, brakes, options, trim. But, he added AC. Which was not available with the 6bbl option. So as good a clone as it was, it wasn't a clone per-se. If you're in this for the money, sell the parts and move on. Otherwise, do what you want and it will be worth something to someone down the line.
 
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