joedart
Well-Known Member
How many of you have built a motor with the 284-484 cam and made over 400HP also can you list your combo or some of it? Just curious of some variations.
Just a 284-484?
- Thread starter joedart
- Start date
-
moper
Well-Known Member
Haven't used one since the late 80s... And the one I did use didnt make close to 400hp.
I spoke with the builder of these engines. Very nice fella and helpful. Click here for his page where ya see the below in addition to other builds.;
http://www.mopar1.us/dyno.html
http://www.mopar1.us/dyno.html
Upper 11's? Your going to need 400+ in most cases to run low 12's. Of course, alot depends on the cars set up, street, track...etc......
Had a 9.5 to 1 360 with J heads 2.02 with minor bowl work..
69 Dart went 12.000 @ 110.00 mph at Bakersfield back in 1986 at the Bracket Finals...
284/484 cam ..holley strip dominator..750 DP...
69 Dart went 12.000 @ 110.00 mph at Bakersfield back in 1986 at the Bracket Finals...
284/484 cam ..holley strip dominator..750 DP...
joedart
Well-Known Member
Thanks guys kind of funny I found that same page that rumblefish360 did and built mine around package 7 and 8 and got 450hp-442tq and was really impressed by how close those packages are to the real deal.
I'm sorry but 460 hp from that 484 purple cam is a load of crap ...that is a 350 hp camshaft in the real world.
On a real dyno a normal 340 with a set of ported X heads/headers/intake/750 and with the sun and moon and stars all aligned on the best day 375 hp.
I've read a lot of stuff on this board that makes my eyes roll but from my personal experience on a real dyno it's just not going to happen.A 484 purple cam that makes 1.35 hp per ci in...not in the real world...This one I just had to chime in on.
Believe what you will...that 484 cam will always be a 49.95 cam with lifters in my book.
On a real dyno a normal 340 with a set of ported X heads/headers/intake/750 and with the sun and moon and stars all aligned on the best day 375 hp.
I've read a lot of stuff on this board that makes my eyes roll but from my personal experience on a real dyno it's just not going to happen.A 484 purple cam that makes 1.35 hp per ci in...not in the real world...This one I just had to chime in on.
Believe what you will...that 484 cam will always be a 49.95 cam with lifters in my book.
green1
Well-Known Member
Lol, I'll bump this, and watch the arguments.
MoparBilly G
Member
Real world dyno numbers... there's an oxymoron.
Who gives a rip? How fast do you want to go?? Had a 284/484 in my first 440, circa 84.
Sealed power flattop rebuild, everything else stock, Torker 2 and 750 DP 11 inch converter, 1 3/4 blackjacks, 3.91 gear. 73 Cuda that was my only mode of transportation. 12.89-107 on 28X9 M/Ts. 11.93-114 with 150 shot. Excellent street manners, made a 2000 mile roadtrip with 2.76s and knocked down 14.2 mpg.
Little brother took the 73 340 out of my Cuda, did a PAW/Krylon re-build, added a 284/484, dropped it in a 76 duster with stock HS converter and 3.91 gear, and went 14.0, then swapped on an LD 340 and a spreadbore Holley, and went 13.77 best, borrowed my plate and went 12.56.
Both of us went to 292/509s when we got better heads, converters, the typical Mopar journey!!
There are much better modern cams, which are more expensive...if I were running a 284/484 today, it would be a budget stock rebuild, because you can get away with stock valvetrain components, Or I would want 1.6 ratio rockers.
Who gives a rip? How fast do you want to go?? Had a 284/484 in my first 440, circa 84.
Sealed power flattop rebuild, everything else stock, Torker 2 and 750 DP 11 inch converter, 1 3/4 blackjacks, 3.91 gear. 73 Cuda that was my only mode of transportation. 12.89-107 on 28X9 M/Ts. 11.93-114 with 150 shot. Excellent street manners, made a 2000 mile roadtrip with 2.76s and knocked down 14.2 mpg.
Little brother took the 73 340 out of my Cuda, did a PAW/Krylon re-build, added a 284/484, dropped it in a 76 duster with stock HS converter and 3.91 gear, and went 14.0, then swapped on an LD 340 and a spreadbore Holley, and went 13.77 best, borrowed my plate and went 12.56.
Both of us went to 292/509s when we got better heads, converters, the typical Mopar journey!!
There are much better modern cams, which are more expensive...if I were running a 284/484 today, it would be a budget stock rebuild, because you can get away with stock valvetrain components, Or I would want 1.6 ratio rockers.
moper
Well-Known Member
Couldnt agree more. I just can't see it. I think way too much faith is put in the simulation programs. If someone has quick ETs with this cam, please post the mph and vehicle weights and the rest of the package. One can run mid 12s with 375hp in a drag race oriented car. The few street cars I'm familiar enough with to know that cam was in them never produced mph or ETs that said that cam was generating that kind of power and I never seen one make over 400hp on a dyno. You're talking a cam that has .460 lift at the valve, and is only open for a short time at that lift because the lobe is pointy. The heads would have to flow 220cfm or better at around .250 lift to move enough air to make 400hp in a street engine package with that cam.
joedart
Well-Known Member
Let me tell you guys something until you build this engine show some respect cause I sure am not feeding you a line bull@#$%. Just think like a pure-stock guy and rumage through hundreds of parts until you get those right pieces. Think outside the box. Oh, you'll like this even better with a cast iron intake it made 419hp-422tq and a thermoquad.
I beileve this cam capable of the power with a;
750+ cfm
RPM
10-1
well ported 2.02-1.60/heads, or Edelbrocks prep'd
Large tube (?) headers. IMO, 1-3/4 primary tube headers. IDK if you all would call that a larger tube header. (For the street? Again, IDK.) But that is what I would use.
I'd rather run the Comp updated version myself.
The guys page said 9.5-1, which IMO, is light on squeezzee
His head flow is a mystery, just his reported findings on max flow. which would suggest a full porting.
He mentioned larger tube headers but not the actual primary size.
Also, what did it have after the headers on the dyno? 3 inch pipe into bullet race mufflers? Open header?
Really, to much out there to start throwing stones on what appears to be a possible "Happy" dyno reading?
750+ cfm
RPM
10-1
well ported 2.02-1.60/heads, or Edelbrocks prep'd
Large tube (?) headers. IMO, 1-3/4 primary tube headers. IDK if you all would call that a larger tube header. (For the street? Again, IDK.) But that is what I would use.
I'd rather run the Comp updated version myself.
The guys page said 9.5-1, which IMO, is light on squeezzee
His head flow is a mystery, just his reported findings on max flow. which would suggest a full porting.
He mentioned larger tube headers but not the actual primary size.
Also, what did it have after the headers on the dyno? 3 inch pipe into bullet race mufflers? Open header?
Really, to much out there to start throwing stones on what appears to be a possible "Happy" dyno reading?
joedart
Well-Known Member
What is a real dyno? Line Performance dyno'd the engine and Lance builds multiple pure stock engines for some high caliber drivers through out the states. I would think after people paying him 20-25 grand for engine every year he would have what you call a real dyno.
With exhaust manifolds and a low compresion, yep.
I agree, then any mis match will be that in my book.
green1
Well-Known Member
Dunno, they work good in a 70, adv 10.5 comp engine, .017 out of the hole.
T67POWER
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Sep 30, 2009
- Messages
- 669
- Reaction score
- 10
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 553
View Photos By: T67POWER
360ci
Original 1994 360 comando engine.
Installed the .484 mopar cam \\\\ original cam was the .474 mopar cam.(9.1)
308 cylinder heads 1.88/1.60 valves bowl blended and port matched.
M1 intake(single plain)
Heads where milled .015 thousands.
Compression close to 9.5 now
750 hp holley >>>stagger jetting.
4 hole standard spacer.
msd 6al with msd billit distributor \\\ no vacuum advance canister.
Timing at 38 total.all in before 2500 rpm's.
904 built by dynamic
dynamic 9 1/2 inch convertor 3800-4000 stall
8 3/4 rear 4.56 yukon gears with a detroit locker.
caltrack suspension.
28 inch tall hoosier quick time pro tire
Shift points are 6500/6500 threw traps at 5900-6000
ET 12.89 at 103
1.74 short time
This combo is in my 67 coronet and weighs in at a little over 3700lbs with me in it for the ride.
It's not my 67 cuda but it is a small block combination with some simple parts that are tuned in for a full time street\bracket car.
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 553
View Photos By: T67POWER
360ci
Original 1994 360 comando engine.
Installed the .484 mopar cam \\\\ original cam was the .474 mopar cam.(9.1)
308 cylinder heads 1.88/1.60 valves bowl blended and port matched.
M1 intake(single plain)
Heads where milled .015 thousands.
Compression close to 9.5 now
750 hp holley >>>stagger jetting.
4 hole standard spacer.
msd 6al with msd billit distributor \\\ no vacuum advance canister.
Timing at 38 total.all in before 2500 rpm's.
904 built by dynamic
dynamic 9 1/2 inch convertor 3800-4000 stall
8 3/4 rear 4.56 yukon gears with a detroit locker.
caltrack suspension.
28 inch tall hoosier quick time pro tire
Shift points are 6500/6500 threw traps at 5900-6000
ET 12.89 at 103
1.74 short time
This combo is in my 67 coronet and weighs in at a little over 3700lbs with me in it for the ride.
It's not my 67 cuda but it is a small block combination with some simple parts that are tuned in for a full time street\bracket car.
T67POWER
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Sep 30, 2009
- Messages
- 669
- Reaction score
- 10
The post before this is my a real world combination with the .484 cam.
If I where to fully port my heads and run a 2.02 set of valves what do you think it would be worth for horse power?????
I would only need 60 more horse or so to be near the numbers of the posted engine combination.
I think 30 more cfm in head flow is possible with porting.No????
30 cfm adds up to 60 horse when tuned in.
I don't run fully ported heads or even a 2.02 valve and i am pushing a 3700 pound car into the twelves.
I believe it's a strong 375 to 400 horse cam with a stockish engine for sure.
A good set of heads will make any cam work better then expected.
A big do or die for any engine is also knowing how to build the carb to the motor.
I think the biggest thing that is being over looked here is the amount of torque the cam makes and where it starts and stops in the power band.
This is one of the best torque cams mopar ever made for a high performance stock engine with stock parts.
If I where to fully port my heads and run a 2.02 set of valves what do you think it would be worth for horse power?????
I would only need 60 more horse or so to be near the numbers of the posted engine combination.
I think 30 more cfm in head flow is possible with porting.No????
30 cfm adds up to 60 horse when tuned in.
I don't run fully ported heads or even a 2.02 valve and i am pushing a 3700 pound car into the twelves.
I believe it's a strong 375 to 400 horse cam with a stockish engine for sure.
A good set of heads will make any cam work better then expected.
A big do or die for any engine is also knowing how to build the carb to the motor.
I think the biggest thing that is being over looked here is the amount of torque the cam makes and where it starts and stops in the power band.
This is one of the best torque cams mopar ever made for a high performance stock engine with stock parts.
moper
Well-Known Member
Hey, it's only my opinion and I apologize if it's not shared or taken to be a cheap shot. I'd like to be proved wrong with emiprical data because I don't trust dynos or flow benches completely even in my own stuff. They are at best tools, and tools whose results can and are manipulated all the time. I was partially educated by a multiple NHRA Stock Eliminator (S/D, S/E,S/F, S/M) record holder. In fact, I'd seen a hydraulic cammed 351 Ford Cleveland make 490hp w/9.5:1 compression, stock lower end, factory 4bbl intake, and the factory Autolite POS carb. That engine went 11-teens and shifted at 7200rpm. Interestingly he also set the S/M national records with the same long block by just swapping to the 2bbl setup.
I have a hard time believing the posted results. Nothing personal it's just an opinon.
T67 - Again, just an opinion here... Thanks for posting all the info. Your Coronet's engine makes around 375hp (I'm assuming typical LA 340 port that will flow around 210-215cfm in factory form). I'd say that's about right for what you have and the ET's show a well sorted, drag race oriented car. Port the heads all you want. The cam is probably already holding you back and isn't using flow that's available (with a better cam you could make over 400 with stock heads). Without replacing the cam, I can't see it making 2hp/cfm. It is making 2hp/cfm. 375hp/2=187.5cfm. But basing it on what the cam is able to flow. Not what the port might be able to flow. It makes 2hp/cfm, but it's still shy of what the heads potentially could be making. I think what you've got is right around where I thought it would be able to flow.
The cam's good. not great, but good. If forced to use and MP product I'd take the MP .528 over it any day and make more usable power with it.
Ditto.......... Or the next cam up, the 296/.557
T67POWER
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Sep 30, 2009
- Messages
- 669
- Reaction score
- 10
Your right about the lift on the cam taking a little power away and i agree.
A set of 1.6 rockers installed and track tested would be a cool test on any purple shaft due to most of them being on the conservative side as far as the lift goes.
There are better high lift cams available for sure but you have to buy all new valve train parts most of the time to make them work correctly and last.
But you know how the story goes....#-o
If you only have so much cash i believe it's better to use your stock valve gear and heads and put the extra cash in the carb and converter and as always ----never enough gear lololol
My coronet is screaming for 2.02 valves and a higher lift cam for sure.
I would have done this buy now but my engine suffers from a piston with no valve reliefs.
It's made of keith black hyper material but looks just like a stock dish piston.
I think i could put more lift in my 318 stock engine.
Hey that's an idea :idea1:
A set of 1.6 rockers installed and track tested would be a cool test on any purple shaft due to most of them being on the conservative side as far as the lift goes.
There are better high lift cams available for sure but you have to buy all new valve train parts most of the time to make them work correctly and last.
But you know how the story goes....#-o
If you only have so much cash i believe it's better to use your stock valve gear and heads and put the extra cash in the carb and converter and as always ----never enough gear lololol
My coronet is screaming for 2.02 valves and a higher lift cam for sure.
I would have done this buy now but my engine suffers from a piston with no valve reliefs.
It's made of keith black hyper material but looks just like a stock dish piston.
I think i could put more lift in my 318 stock engine.
Hey that's an idea :idea1:
I have noticed the Purple cams a bit shy on lift. I don't think it's a "need more lift" issue. Maybe to match the flow potentail of the ported head on top! But otherwise, the cams lift works well with, well preped heads and/or bowl ported heads. Fully ported units need not apply till much later in there cam group selection. Otherwise, the added cc amount of the runners are just going to slow things down. (Air speed)
EL5DEMON340
Well-Known Member
easy as pie! 340/360, j heads with good bowl & port work, 2.05 int valves, good rockers, victor intake, 950 hp holley, cr at 11 to 12 to 1, this should give a cly psi of around 200 with this cam
..........Here's my old combo..............1970 340 stock bore and rotating assambly........284/484 purple shaft, advanced 2 *.....2.02 X heads with 3 angles on the seats and valves......stock springs and valve gear, LD340 intake, 750 Carter Competition series carb, recurved dizzy..all in by 2200, 727 with factory hi stall........3.23 gears .....245/60/14 BFGs...full bodied 70 swinger......13.2@105 mph........kim.........oh ya, 3475lbs with me in it.......
"How much HP does it have?" is just worthless bench racin, even if you've had it on a dyno and know how much it has. As long as you match the cam up with the rest of the car, it will run what it's supposed to, regardless of the specs or brand. You can run yourself ragged and spend the rest of your life makin a cam choice. As long as it matches everything else in your combination, you'll be good to go. Like Billy said, "who gives a rip?" I say simply use the dragstrip for your dyno. Those are the only numbers that really count anyway.
-
