Lifter replacement

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67dodgedartconv

67dodgedartconv

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I have a rebuilt 318 with small summit cam and hydraulic flat lifters. Engine sat for over a year before break in oil was added, oil pump primed and started. Engine started right up. Engine has only run about 30 minutes for camshaft break in and a few trips around the block. Lifters quieted some but a couple are still pretty noisy. Assuming they are as quiet as they are going to get, can I replace all the lifters and break them in to the cam again? Should I use Summit brand lifters or another brand? Thanks
 
Yes you can replace all the lifters. You can use any brand lifter you chose. You don't have to worry about a warranty issue with the cam as you stated its already over a year old.
 
340doc said:
Yes you can replace all the lifters. You can use any brand lifter you chose. You don't have to worry about a warranty issue with the cam as you stated its already over a year old.
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Didn't know if it was better to keep same brand lifters and cam for compatibility or if it made no difference. You are correct that warranty is not an issue .
 
Noisy lifters can be dirty inside. You can clean them by pulling the snap ring and laying the parts out. The crap usually ends up in the bottom of the lifter, right under the check valve. if the valve gets crud in it, the lifter never "solidifies" and just hammers the plunger in the bore every time its cycled. Also check rockers and preload.
 
pishta said:
Noisy lifters can be dirty inside. You can clean them by pulling the snap ring and laying the parts out. The crap usually ends up in the bottom of the lifter, right under the check valve. if the valve gets crud in it, the lifter never "solidifies" and just hammers the plunger in the bore every time its cycled. Also check rockers and preload.
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Dirty even though they are new? Factory shaft rockers. All the hold down bolts were tight on the shafts.
 
Dirty as in break in oil transporting break in crud throughout the oiling system on initial start up. it all collects in the bottom of the closed end lifter. you can test them by putting them in a cup of oil and pushing a pushrod into them repeatedly until they pump up and hold.
 
pishta said:
Dirty as in break in oil transporting break in crud throughout the oiling system on initial start up. it all collects in the bottom of the closed end lifter. you can test them by putting them in a cup of oil and pushing a pushrod into them repeatedly until they pump up and hold.
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Yup, I was just going to say that...
If more guys got into practice of this, it would reduce a lot of future issues..
 
what oil you using
most likely just gummed up from sitting
you can clean and reassemble
 
you should actually do this prior to start up when you are inserting the lifters. Use a oil squirter to fill the lifters through the hole in the side. The oil never drains as there is no where for it to go unless you have EDM lifters.
 
Actually you are not supposed to soak or prefill lifters. They fill and take up the lash when it's either prelubed or fired. Pre-filling can hang valves open. If it was me I'd run it a bit more. You may find they bleed the air and quiet down with some heat cycles. If you have to change them, check the preload first when the intake comes off, and make sure that is right. Some lifters are different pushrod cup heights so changing brands may lead to real issues with preload and pushrods.
 
moper said:
Actually you are not supposed to soak or prefill lifters. They fill and take up the lash when it's either prelubed or fired. Pre-filling can hang valves open. If it was me I'd run it a bit more. You may find they bleed the air and quiet down with some heat cycles. If you have to change them, check the preload first when the intake comes off, and make sure that is right. Some lifters are different pushrod cup heights so changing brands may lead to real issues with preload and pushrods.
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Never heard of that? I have always filled the lifters and soaked them in oil before install, the valve spring will push out the oil and automatically set the preload because that is what they do, even when running.
 
moper said:
Actually you are not supposed to soak or prefill lifters. They fill and take up the lash when it's either prelubed or fired. Pre-filling can hang valves open. If it was me I'd run it a bit more. You may find they bleed the air and quiet down with some heat cycles. If you have to change them, check the preload first when the intake comes off, and make sure that is right. Some lifters are different pushrod cup heights so changing brands may lead to real issues with preload and pushrods.
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How do you check the preload on non-adjustable rockers? Only thing I can think of is to feel pushrod to make sure it's not loose when valve is open? All pushrods were straight on visual inspection.
 
first the thing sat- right
if you do pre-oil the lifters you have to turn the motor over with a breaker bar- not the starter at least twice stopping every 90 degrees to let the lifters bleed down with spring pressure- else you can bend things
uh not loose when the valve is closed, just a little tight BVVC if the cam has a reduced base circle with stock rockers- you may need longer pushrods
you can set with adjustable pushrod then check vs your non adjustable pushrods
camgrinder will tell you how much preload you want
and if you are running roller tips or later change to roller tips read
B3 Racing Engines LLC - Mopar Rocker Arm Geometry Tech
 
I used to pre-soak lifters cuz I read it in a book.
Then, after assembling a coupla engines, - cranking to fire, but had no compression.
I had to back the rocker shafts off to get the valves to close, then once running, slowly re-tighten rocker shafts down.
Haven't pre-filled since, - dozens of engines ago.
My $ .02.
 
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I think the problem is the lifter piston it stuck in the lifter bore that is causing the problem.
after sitting a long time in the box they stick, I have always put oil in a tub, tupperware or something that will hold all 16 lifters filled with oil over the top of the lifters and then take a push rod and pump the lifter piston, when they are stuck tap the push rod with a hammer to drive the piston down, once loose pump it up. Make sure all lifters can be pumped and let them sit in the oil over night or till it's time to install them. On Chevy motors tighten the rocker till the push rod has no play and then go 3/4 to 1 turn and that gives you 0.060" preload on the lifter and I have never had a valve hang open or any other problem.
 
inertia said:
I used to pre-soak lifters cuz I read it in a book.
Then, after assembling a coupla engines, - cranking to fire, but had no compression.
I had to back the rocker shafts off to get the valves to close, then once running, slowly re-tighten rocker shafts down.
Haven't pre-filled since, - dozens of engines ago.
My $ .02.
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x2. That was the 80s when I was in my teens and just starting out. You check for preload during assembly, before the intake goes on. Preload is not affected by lifter filling, or shouldn't be... My steps: Verify lifter rotation with only WD40 and no pushrods in place. Once they all turn, I assemble the top end dry , and sans head gasket. Measure preload (distance between the retaining ring and top of plunger), subtract the gasket compressed thickness, and I have my preload. On engines that were not machined by my shop, I will do cylinders 1,7,2,and 4. If it was machined to my specs, I'll only do cylinders 1 and 2.
 
I have never had a problem with valves "hanging open." Way back in the '70's I had owned Chivvys and remember the nonsense........zero lash.......oil all over.......and preload 1/4 turn at a time.

One day it occurred.......MOPARS don't adjust, ??whut?? I used to just bolt them on and let them sit for 15 min or so. Bump the starter a couple of times, and let it sit again for 10-15. NEVER on startup did I have a valve hang that I'm aware of.

So far as the OP's problem I would sure as HELL attempt to clean these if they are new lifters. Pull them apart and flush them out. In fact in might be worth the trouble to NOT pull down the engine first, and try some REALLY light oil, first, along with a "big" can of something like Rislone
 
Assuming it's lifter racket......
Remember the guy who's pushrods were banging in the tunnels?
Or the guy who's rockerarms were sliding sideways back and forth?
Or one that happened to me: a couple of arms were smacking my homemade breather baffles, in my circa 1970 M/T cast aluminum valve covers.........
Or there was this guy one time here, who's pushrod ends did not fit his arms.
Or one time, the rocker arms were hitting the edges of the retainers.
 
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On my 340 I fired it up on an engine start stand broke it in.
Started it a couple times after that, everything ok.
Let the engine sit for 3 years.
Re-primed the engine when I set it in the car, it fired up quick.
Peck-peck-peck, I shut it down after a few seconds after verifying good oil pressure.
The exhaust lifter on #8, the plunger was stuck down, and did not pump up, bent the push rod, and trashed the rocker arm.
Lesson learned, do not leave an engine with tension on the rocker arms sitting.
I replaced one lifter, push rod, and rocker arm, to this day it has a slight tick-tick-tick that you can only hear with the hood up.
The cam felt good, but I got a gut feeling its not going to last.
 
67Dart273 said:
I have never had a problem with valves "hanging open." Way back in the '70's I had owned Chivvys and remember the nonsense........zero lash.......oil all over.......and preload 1/4 turn at a time.

One day it occurred.......MOPARS don't adjust, ??whut?? I used to just bolt them on and let them sit for 15 min or so. Bump the starter a couple of times, and let it sit again for 10-15. NEVER on startup did I have a valve hang that I'm aware of.

So far as the OP's problem I would sure as HELL attempt to clean these if they are new lifters. Pull them apart and flush them out. In fact in might be worth the trouble to NOT pull down the engine first, and try some REALLY light oil, first, along with a "big" can of something like Rislone
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This engine is not broken in. 30 min run time total. Would the Rislone or maybe Marvel Mystery Oil hurt the engine at this time? Some more info. 318 block with factory 360 heads, rockers, shafts, pushrods, and valve covers. I just pulled the left side valve cover. I could turn half the pushrods by hand. The ones that turn are not pumped up, correct?
 
67dodgedartconv said:
This engine is not broken in. 30 min run time total. Would the Rislone or maybe Marvel Mystery Oil hurt the engine at this time? Some more info. 318 block with factory 360 heads, rockers, shafts, pushrods, and valve covers. I just pulled the left side valve cover. I could turn half the pushrods by hand. The ones that turn are not pumped up, correct?
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Yes not pumped up.

30 minutes of run time, it should be broke in, if anything a 1/2 pint of automatic transmission fluid may clean them out.
The transmission fluid trick would quiet engines down when a customer wanted to hear a engine run when I worked in a junkyard years ago.
 
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