Mopar44134
Well-Known Member
Maybe youve already answered it, sorry if you did....You said you may put an x head on one side, j the other. Does this mean you will be flowing each head...picking the best?
Masters of Motors (MOM) the new EngineMasters Challenge (EMC)
- Thread starter RAMM
- Start date
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here's one i will sell you for a Dollar! It's only has one too two hole poked thru each intake port and then filled back in with mud
Just kidding i know you can only have one port, intake and exhaust that has a "repair" in it.............I did read the rules on heads
Just kidding i know you can only have one port, intake and exhaust that has a "repair" in it.............I did read the rules on heads
All seriousness
I hope you can show the porting ### of each style of head and how it acts on each combo.
I realise you will be doing hundreds of test, and don't have time to keep us up to speed.
Will be real interesting the flow ### intake and exhaust between the X and the 308............and then the HP/TQ ###
I hope you can show the porting ### of each style of head and how it acts on each combo.
I realise you will be doing hundreds of test, and don't have time to keep us up to speed.
Will be real interesting the flow ### intake and exhaust between the X and the 308............and then the HP/TQ ###
Oh crap! My bad and Apologies to RAMM.
I do not have the 308 heads but 2 pair (4 heads) of the 596 series. 1 bare, 1 loaded.
So sorry about this RAMM.
I really wanted to help contribute to this.
I do not have the 308 heads but 2 pair (4 heads) of the 596 series. 1 bare, 1 loaded.
So sorry about this RAMM.
I really wanted to help contribute to this.
Looks like the intake rules give you a little room for raising the intake roof at the flange. With a max of 0.100" intake gasket will help but may need head shaving to keep with in the rules and get that roof up.
It sure would be nice to have a hand full of heads to experiment with. aka how much can you shave from the head gasket area before you start messing with combustion chamber recovery........ and can you get a way with more shaving on say a 308 or, visa versa.
And a intake to match up with each combo.
So why are you not considering the Emission later heads. Much easier to get ahold of, and cheap.
In a max port affair, is there a HP lose between a 596 casting, 360 head compared to a J head????????
It sure would be nice to have a hand full of heads to experiment with. aka how much can you shave from the head gasket area before you start messing with combustion chamber recovery........ and can you get a way with more shaving on say a 308 or, visa versa.
And a intake to match up with each combo.
So why are you not considering the Emission later heads. Much easier to get ahold of, and cheap.
In a max port affair, is there a HP lose between a 596 casting, 360 head compared to a J head????????
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Wyrmrider
Well-Known Member
Good morning
cabin feever here
I may have some X,J U heads in the core pipe
I did have some with guides and good ex seats
I can check next Saturday if you still need them by the
most likely PT and magged
My big question on your direction is are those Hughes rockers NHRA stock eliminator accepted?
IMHO here (well it all is)
.600 lift with I.6 rockers requires .375 lobe lift- now to find lift rule lobes with that lift
If you can only get 1.6 rockers you are better off by far with one of Jones inverse radius HR's (they say nothing about how HR has to work)
flat flank HR would be a push- You could get more lift with a HR than a FT but you do not need it. You need lift quick, rollover the nose, quick close
It takes a 1.8 rocker to about equal a roller with a FT (maybe not with the lift rule, I'll have to think about that
curiosity do you have your valves?
We are using .200 long sbc valves 2.015
I was looking at 5/16 vs the hollow 11/32 but we snagged some NASCAR Ti valves so are just running plain 11/32 this year with the T&D 1.5 rockers going to screw with rocker ratio for next year and get the Ti valves cut and grooved- no time this year
On Pistons IDK what compression height you are considering but if in the 1.3 area that's what 4.25 stroke SBM's take so there should be forgings available All I've seen have have chevy pins - then rod turns out to be what it turns out to be to connect the crank and pin together
I agree 100% on the rod angle, thrust on cyl wall, all that. Does change the piston demand for the cam timing
How do you figure compression pressure without knowing the fuel?
You can hold down the compression pressure at that 11.5 by spreading out the lobe centers if they are not supplying race gas
Head cc vs dome' you are better off reducing the head cc first. It does not look like they would appreciate rolling the head much
on the open chamber heads are you going to run the piston out of the block and equal mill the chambers for some quench
perhaps 4" stroker ch pistons would work for that (ps keep the rings in the block- ask me how I know)
do you really need a 1.6 exhaust? you can slide the guides over and run a larger intake I think we did 60-40
I was wondering if Total Seal would sponsor some of their new gas port rings...
cheers
cabin feever here
I may have some X,J U heads in the core pipe
I did have some with guides and good ex seats
I can check next Saturday if you still need them by the
most likely PT and magged
My big question on your direction is are those Hughes rockers NHRA stock eliminator accepted?
IMHO here (well it all is)
.600 lift with I.6 rockers requires .375 lobe lift- now to find lift rule lobes with that lift
If you can only get 1.6 rockers you are better off by far with one of Jones inverse radius HR's (they say nothing about how HR has to work)
flat flank HR would be a push- You could get more lift with a HR than a FT but you do not need it. You need lift quick, rollover the nose, quick close
It takes a 1.8 rocker to about equal a roller with a FT (maybe not with the lift rule, I'll have to think about that
curiosity do you have your valves?
We are using .200 long sbc valves 2.015
I was looking at 5/16 vs the hollow 11/32 but we snagged some NASCAR Ti valves so are just running plain 11/32 this year with the T&D 1.5 rockers going to screw with rocker ratio for next year and get the Ti valves cut and grooved- no time this year
On Pistons IDK what compression height you are considering but if in the 1.3 area that's what 4.25 stroke SBM's take so there should be forgings available All I've seen have have chevy pins - then rod turns out to be what it turns out to be to connect the crank and pin together
I agree 100% on the rod angle, thrust on cyl wall, all that. Does change the piston demand for the cam timing
How do you figure compression pressure without knowing the fuel?
You can hold down the compression pressure at that 11.5 by spreading out the lobe centers if they are not supplying race gas
Head cc vs dome' you are better off reducing the head cc first. It does not look like they would appreciate rolling the head much
on the open chamber heads are you going to run the piston out of the block and equal mill the chambers for some quench
perhaps 4" stroker ch pistons would work for that (ps keep the rings in the block- ask me how I know)
do you really need a 1.6 exhaust? you can slide the guides over and run a larger intake I think we did 60-40
I was wondering if Total Seal would sponsor some of their new gas port rings...
cheers
kowalski440
Well-Known Member
I meant just the length, not the actual rods.
Also, reverse (from stock) offset piston pins. Smokey Yunick mentioned in his writings, that he noticed no amount of air pressure would move centered pins, but when he offset them like mentioned, it would rotate them, and in dyno testing, he picked up some torque/power. He's where I got the idea of the longer rods, also.
67autocross
A new iron curtain drawn across the 49th parallel
If you don’t find anything soon I could likely get you heads here in Winnipeg...but you should be able to find them close to home...did you put an add on kijiji?
RAMM
Well-Known Member
No I did not create a wanted add yet. Will do tomorrow. Thanks, J.Rob
RAMM
Well-Known Member
Can't respond to everyones post ATM--but here are some pictures to officially make this thread less worthless. Oh and I was incorrect--the block is a 1967 casting not a '68. J.Rob
67autocross
A new iron curtain drawn across the 49th parallel
Are you going to cut rear main cap for a seal or switch it out for a stock one?
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
Are you going to machine off the outer bolts on the main caps??
What lifters are those?
What lifters are those?
RAMM
Well-Known Member
It will be machined. J.Rob
67autocross
A new iron curtain drawn across the 49th parallel
I was looking at buying a set of those caps but my local engine shop said it would cost a few bucks to machine the seal grove
RAMM
Well-Known Member
No need to machine them off, I may just leave them and not use them. It will be a 4 bolt hole main block that way-lol.
The lifters I've already named after a quick edit. Very big $$$$ in the early 2000's. Even more now if they were still in business. J.Rob
RAMM
Well-Known Member
Agreed. It won't be simple ot all that easy but I AM the machine shop in this case. Still it's time I really dont have. J.Rob
67autocross
A new iron curtain drawn across the 49th parallel
When you do the cut let me know what you would charge to do another one...I assume you will have to make a tool of some sort
RAMM
Well-Known Member
Yes I will have to custom shape a carbide blank into the appropriate seal groove v pattern size and shape. J.Rob
Wyrmrider
Well-Known Member
They are "don't float your valves" Schubecks
great for cam swapping
for production
"We run cast cams, and our oiling lifters, for up to 440# over the nose.
For anything over that, we go to steel cams, and coated tool steel lifters."
But for a dyno run the ceramic lifters should work
wish they had been available when doing "wheelbarrow of cams" tests
easier than refacing lifters
great for cam swapping
for production
"We run cast cams, and our oiling lifters, for up to 440# over the nose.
For anything over that, we go to steel cams, and coated tool steel lifters."
But for a dyno run the ceramic lifters should work
wish they had been available when doing "wheelbarrow of cams" tests
easier than refacing lifters
Not much to add here lol.....subscribed.
RAMM
Well-Known Member
No not really based on flow, just giving an example of the whacky things that may need to be tried. J.Rob
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
Hmmmm. I’ve seen Schubeck’s for chevy’s but not a chrysler. I don’t remember the GM having that pushrod cup.
But...that was a long time ago and I may be a bit foggy.
kowalski440
Well-Known Member
I had a set in my 440. Bought them around 2007 or so, when Joe was operating under the radar a bit. Wanted them mainly to avoid the hft oil issues, and down the line maybe cam experiment. Of course, the USA made roller conversion lifters (for several hundred $ less) from Hughes came out a few months after I got the motor done.
They worked great, no issues. But if I had a to do over, I'd go roller.
Wyrmrider
Well-Known Member
If he did not have the lift limit the roller would be the clear winner.
the mopar lobed FT with 1.6 will be competitive with the guys running HRs unless they do some serious r&d
edit
either FT or HR would be better with a "lift rule" desigh
I do not know of any 1.6 rocker .600 lift rule grinds
FT struggles to get to .600 but a lift rule profile for steel core and coated lifters or the Schubecks would really help
but the HR has the most to gain with a custom lobe
Inverse radius would allow shorter seat timing for a broader torque curve
I'd try the "Controlled Induction" program and see what profiles it comes up with and if there are no lobes to match get a custom lobe ground CNC -
You can be your own master...
cheers
the mopar lobed FT with 1.6 will be competitive with the guys running HRs unless they do some serious r&d
edit
either FT or HR would be better with a "lift rule" desigh
I do not know of any 1.6 rocker .600 lift rule grinds
FT struggles to get to .600 but a lift rule profile for steel core and coated lifters or the Schubecks would really help
but the HR has the most to gain with a custom lobe
Inverse radius would allow shorter seat timing for a broader torque curve
I'd try the "Controlled Induction" program and see what profiles it comes up with and if there are no lobes to match get a custom lobe ground CNC -
You can be your own master...
cheers
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stixx
Well-Known Member
I am drooling over those rods...
Subscribed!
Subscribed!
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