Missed on this combo?
- Thread starter Ironmike
- Start date
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I don't know, Sure like the bowl and ss pic of the bloomer head.
From the threads i have read in the past couple days. Seam like this head has been in development for a while now.
don't think any one including the owner of the head has put it on a dyno yet.
Please post up and set me straight if i'm misunderstood.
looks like a great head.........but..........
From the threads i have read in the past couple days. Seam like this head has been in development for a while now.
don't think any one including the owner of the head has put it on a dyno yet.
Please post up and set me straight if i'm misunderstood.
looks like a great head.........but..........
Ironmike
Well-Known Member
I would have responded "who do I call?" I always assumed CNC was much easier faster and cheaper, cause after all ITS PERFECT!
So to really answer the question, he'll yeah I'd have considered it, but you don't know who does them anymore or you figure it's too pricey due to time involved.
When I was a kid I had this 65 Chevelle. 427 4 speed mild Crane Fireball. It was fast for then. Heard about "this guy" who can grind on your heads a bit and make it faster. I think I paid the guy 75 bucks, did absolutely nothing else and went a half second faster the first Saturday out. Half a second.
Ironmike, it's too bad you don't have a flow bench close buy, so you could do some experimenting. as in mud up the bowl so the it angle to left of center on the guide and then another one the angles the bowl to the right of center of the guide. see which one, not only flows better, BUT Sound better.
Remember, as you fill in the Bowl area, as u fill the back area of the bowl you are also shrinking the CSA(cross sectional area) of the SS. usually the smallest part of the port is SS area. They may have dug out the bowl just to slow down the air speed to get it over the chitty SS.
That hand drawing really show what is going on.
Remember, as you fill in the Bowl area, as u fill the back area of the bowl you are also shrinking the CSA(cross sectional area) of the SS. usually the smallest part of the port is SS area. They may have dug out the bowl just to slow down the air speed to get it over the chitty SS.
That hand drawing really show what is going on.
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
They guy who developed the Bloomer head is still grinding ports.
Trust me, I'm trying to rub salt in your wound. I'm hoping that someone else will see this and learn that CNC does NOT assure a quality port. If the port copied was junk, the CNC will just repeat it. Since 1980 I have seen way more junk ports than I have good ones. Especially on the exhaust port.
faster yes, better I don't know about that. and who's data are we using.The cnc machine is a computer.........bad data in......... BAD DATA OUT!
There's no doubt about it, cnc will make every every port the same and many times faster than the best hand porter.
Ironmike
Well-Known Member
Yep. Talked to Mr Bloomer today. Has them on the shelf. I'd be the first buyer. He got a motor on the dyno, break in went well and the dyno developed problems. Pump issues i guess.
Not a very talkative guy. Don't know why he hasn't sold any yet, other than a bit pricey. I hate being the friggin guinea pig. So that's that story.
Not a very talkative guy. Don't know why he hasn't sold any yet, other than a bit pricey. I hate being the friggin guinea pig. So that's that story.
Ironmike
Well-Known Member
Hey dude, I know you ain't rubbing salt in my wounds. My point was old Mr Santucci picked me up .5 just by his hand porting. I think it's a dying art, business-wise. How can a guy charge someone what his time is worth.
I mean how many hours would it take you to do up a set of heads? Quite a few I bet.
67autocross
A new iron curtain drawn across the 49th parallel
I was looking at the BPE heads late last year and backed out because I didn't want to be first, I'm surprised he has not sold any yet....I could help him out if he sold me the first set in Canadian dollars.
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
I do aluminum heads for $1200.00 plus plus parts like seats and guides. Another $275.00 for the valve job. So, for about $1500.00 plus parts you are down the road. That includes an before and after flow. I may (I actually will) do more tests but those results stay with me. You can see them but I keep them.
Small block single plane intakes are $650.00-700.00 and welding is $70.00 an hour if you need it. Any engine near 372 CID will need some welding. Over 400 CID there is a quite a bit of welding.
I can even sell you a custom cam. I still have the blank form to use.
Keep us posted. Lots of guys are learning from this.
L4staero
Well-Known Member
I like this thread. IronMike I really think you should bite the bullet and fit the BPE heads and see the difference. I think Hughes stuff is inflated and over advertised for what they are, no offence to them
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
I'm sure he would if you sponsored him. And he could get them with out a long wait.
I'd like to see independent flow tests on those heads as well.
Ironmike
Well-Known Member
Hell I'd buy them if the guy even SOUNDED confident about them. Didn't get that warm fuzzy feeling....
"Not sure about 3/8 pushrods", 3 more percent for credit card...
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
When the port gets big enough and the rocker is not offset, it's hard to get a 3/8 pushrod in there. I had to settle for 11/32 and I cringed at that, and I'm running a SFT. No way would I run less that 3/8 with a roller. FWIW I bought my first double taper pushrods in 1999. 7/16 X 3/8 and those were all I could get it they'd have been bigger yet.
BTW, what was he fuzzy about? Just the pushrods?
justinp61
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Rod Bloomer is a great guy to deal with and stands behind what he sells. There are many of his stroker kits running strong. Brett Miller did the port development so the heads will make good power. I don't know if any of you have ever spoke with Brett but he's a sharp cookie. He and I talked several times when I was sorting out the parts combo for my 434.
How much cam are you running to need 3/8" push rods? My Indy heads had to have the piss ground out of them for 11/32" push rods that I'm running with my sr, 263/271 @ .050, .711/.719" at the retainers. PAC 1386 springs, 255# on the seat at 2.00" and 655# at 1.200".
On the 3% I'd be willing to bet that is what it costs him to run them, other companies are just adding the cost in and not mentioning it. Don't fool yourself thinking that these companies are going to eat $60 on a $2000 purchase.
67autocross
A new iron curtain drawn across the 49th parallel
I would take a chance at the BPE heads if they cost say $1600 US ...but at $2125 US plus shipping they will cost me over $3000 Canadian for the bare heads by the time they hit my door step, which is getting a bit pricey to be the first one to test them.
Marcohotrod
Well-Known Member
there must be some people with BPE heads, did he say if any are out there?, Brett Miller must have a pair. back in 1991 I was talking to Indy, and asked when are you going to make some small mopar heads, he said send me $5000 and we will do it
Ironmike
Well-Known Member
He said I would be the first pair sold. No way, man. Not for 2200 bucks plus.
MAYBE if I could see touch and feel. I guess he really doesn't care if they sell or not.
I was involved with one of the first Ritter blocks. Never again will I be "the first". It's a shame too. I'll bet they're good heads.
Ironmike
Well-Known Member
So big change of plans after 2 phone calls. First call was that the rocker I sent to Dave Hughes didn't really spec out to 1.6. Ahhh... not even 1.5. I friggin knew it! I know how to measure lift at the damn valve. 16 new ones, each one checked out, are on the way. Good on Hughes!
Also spent 90 minutes on the phone with Tim at Bullet. 90 minutes. Gave him flow numbers, dyno numbers, everything. When he plugged in my flow numbers on some software, it all jive pretty much exactly like my dyno sheets. Not really what we all expected.
To shorten up the story, my exhaust flow is way too efficient for the corresponding intake flow. He used the same term someone did on this thread. "That thing can't clear it's throat". Something about 75 percent is where you want to be, intake vs exhaust. I'm way over.
So before I start epoxying anything. Send the cam back. It's going to be split duration, alright. But split the other way. I think he said 269/255. Seen it before, done this before, so we shall see.
So really.....when you look at things, I had a 560 horse motor, not 400, or even 450, but 560,,, that had way less lift than thought, and had a cam ground for heads that I didn't really have. I have a feeling this is all gonna work out. Just a hunch. Got nothing to lose except time.
Also spent 90 minutes on the phone with Tim at Bullet. 90 minutes. Gave him flow numbers, dyno numbers, everything. When he plugged in my flow numbers on some software, it all jive pretty much exactly like my dyno sheets. Not really what we all expected.
To shorten up the story, my exhaust flow is way too efficient for the corresponding intake flow. He used the same term someone did on this thread. "That thing can't clear it's throat". Something about 75 percent is where you want to be, intake vs exhaust. I'm way over.
So before I start epoxying anything. Send the cam back. It's going to be split duration, alright. But split the other way. I think he said 269/255. Seen it before, done this before, so we shall see.
So really.....when you look at things, I had a 560 horse motor, not 400, or even 450, but 560,,, that had way less lift than thought, and had a cam ground for heads that I didn't really have. I have a feeling this is all gonna work out. Just a hunch. Got nothing to lose except time.
replicaracer43
Grumpy Old Man
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We have ran some cams like you just described, in our restricted 2 barrel oval track engines, same theory, they had way better exhaust than intake......works quite well
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
Where is he going to put the LSA?
The 75% rule is ok for a start, but good heads are more like 60-65% exhaust/intake flow. And I wouldn't say they exhaust is that good, it's that the intake is not that great.
How the hell did Dave let rockers get out the door with the wrong ratio? He blows his own horn about his ratios being correct. You have to check everything. That's one reason why it costs so much to do this. You have to verify everything.
Keep us posted. Hopefully some learn from this episode about checking and rechecking and double rechecking.
L4staero
Well-Known Member
I would love to buy them for Ironmike to trial as im close to pulling the trigger on some but im on the other side of the world so its a bit tricky
Ironmike
Well-Known Member
LSA stays where it is, I guess. Don't know how the rockers got out the door. Dave wouldn't admit what was wrong when we talked, he just said I'm sending you 16 that I personally spent half a day checking. It was later when I called back, that his guy told me they were NOT mis marked, as far as ratio, they were not EVEN 1.5.
I'm guessing there was a bit of a problem. Wondering how many people out there might think they have 1.6 rockers....
So anyhow, I think I'm looking at 2 weeks before the cam gets home. Said he would try and rush it, but I think everyone's in a rush this time of year. What a frustrating build!
This all started as just "a back up motor", incase the one in the car had some catastrophic failure. Meanwhile it's just sitting there, feeling all neglected, wanting to get pounded on....
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