Missed on this combo?

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yellow rose said:
I don't think/hope Rod Bloomer is that kind of a guy to do something that dirty. I want to give him the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise.
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Exactly.... that's why I was clear in my post that it was completely speculation on my part.... just a thought in my mind about why after 2 engine builds and Dyno tests we have no numbers.
In the end these heads may work as good as they look like they should.
 
Brett is one of the smarts guys out there on small block mopar heads im sure he and rod will get this figured out best of luck
 
There has got to be a way to support 600 HP in stock port configuration and still have a nice venturi. As I said in post 235 the eddy's venturi sucks and it looks like the bloomers are relying on the seat to act as the venturi. Like your guy said the "appproach". What's the minimum you can get away with and still reap the benefits???? Mike, if you'd like come over sometime next week, I'll have my guy flow them and pickup the tab. And I'll remain tight lipped if that's the agreement your under for the time being.
 
Ironmike said:
My dyno guy has some thoughts on air speed. He muttered things I don't understand, like "approach to seat is horrible" and "blown out venturi"

Just his thoughts......
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This in bold screams BIG throat percentage. J.Rob
 
67autocross said:
I would not have been surprised if it had made similar power... but I didn't think it would be down a bunch.
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I would love to know what a "bunch" is? I looked all over my dyno readouts and graph axis for "bunch" . Found nothing. Some peoples bunch is 5 hp while some others is 50 hp so with out assigning a numeric value to it I ain't getting all worked up.

With that said, if it was what I consider a "bunch" (20-30hp down) I'd dive back into my engine to make sure it wasn't eating itself after verifying everything else (compression, lash, etc....) Then if there were any suspicion of the dyno being the culprit you put a known quantity on it and rule that out. Isn't this stuff fun?

With cool heads prevailing this may well be one of the most epic Mopar threads in recent internet history. I really appreciate ALL of the honesty that is displayed by IronMike and everyone else in it. Everyone with basic reading comprehension will have an almost unheard of opportunity to learn from this. J.Rob
 
Thanks ironmike for the update! Seriously a great thread for r&d on cylinder heads. Hopefully the final outcome will be a winner! Stay positive!
 
67autocross said:
I was getting a small block built late last year and really looked hard a putting these heads on a stroker bottom end, I made a post here and asked on Moparts about these heads ... in the end I figured it would be best to wait this one out and let someone else go first... so I built a stock stroke 340 which we put on the Dyno just after Christmas.

**the rest of this post is conspiracy/ speculation **

Now I have to admit that I found it strange that BPE built an engine a few months ago and never could get the Dyno working... I mentioned it in yesterday's post... I wonder if they didn't get bad results at the time and figured it may just be a bad combo and not a problem with the heads, so instead of publishing the numbers they figured they should sell a few sets and see if others would have better luck..... just thinking out loud here and I have no proof or ill will to anyone involved. But again I found that Dyno story strange....
Click to expand...

If you read BPE's account of how the dyno was acting, it's very apparent that it wasn't the engine acting up on the dyno, but that the dyno servo load control was bad. A friend just experienced the very same problem with his dyno.
 
Last edited:
IQ52 said:
If you read BPE's account of how the dyno was acting, it's very apparent that it wasn't the engine acting up on the dyno, but the dyno servo load control was bad. A friend just experienced the very same problem with his dyno.
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I could all very well be true... but I would still want to see some Dyno sheets before buying these heads.
You would think that someone selling heads would have at least one running engine with them before marketing them...again not trying to be critical... but I would want something before spending the cash
 
67autocross said:
You would think that someone selling heads would have at least one running engine with them before marketing them...again not trying to be critical...
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Honestly I'd rather have a confirmation of the flow numbers by somebeody else than a dyno printout by the manufacturer. It's as common as inflated flow numbers to publish inflated dyno numbers (not [really] pointing my finger at Hughes...).
 
RAMM said:
I would love to know what a "bunch" is? I looked all over my dyno readouts and graph axis for "bunch" . Found nothing. Some peoples bunch is 5 hp while some others is 50 hp so with out assigning a numeric value to it I ain't getting all worked up.

With that said, if it was what I consider a "bunch" (20-30hp down) I'd dive back into my engine to make sure it wasn't eating itself after verifying everything else (compression, lash, etc....) Then if there were any suspicion of the dyno being the culprit you put a known quantity on it and rule that out. Isn't this stuff fun?

With cool heads prevailing this may well be one of the most epic Mopar threads in recent internet history. I really appreciate ALL of the honesty that is displayed by IronMike and everyone else in it. Everyone with basic reading comprehension will have an almost unheard of opportunity to learn from this. J.Rob
Click to expand...


For sure IronMike has not only a bunch of $$$$$ in this deal, he's emotionally invested in it as well. Been there and done did that.

I agree the bowls are most likely big, but I do know Chad Speer is at 91% or a bit more on some of his 23* stuff and they make power.

I also have trouble getting my head around Brett Miller missing on the valve job. He's just too smart, too detail oriented to miss the VJ. It's possible he missed on it. But it seems unlikely.

I hope IronMike gets this sorted out without more money and time and emotional investment. The last one is a killer. It's a second and third and fourth guessing yourself, questioning your own knowledge and guts.

Hang in there IronMike.

My offer still stands to run them over the flow bench for you.
 
67autocross said:
I could all very well be true... but I would still want to see some Dyno sheets before buying these heads.
You would think that someone selling heads would have at least one running engine with them before marketing them...again not trying to be critical... but I would want something before spending the cash
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Agree. I mean no disrespect to Ironmike, BPE, or anyone else involved with this build, but damn, just from a business standpoint, how is it that the first paying customer, PAYING CUSTOMER!, is the guinea pig? How does that happen? Honestly, sorry for your troubles Ironmike.
 
YoloCtyFlash said:
Agree. I mean no disrespect to Ironmike, BPE, or anyone else involved with this build, but damn, just from a business standpoint, how is it that the first paying customer, PAYING CUSTOMER!, is the guinea pig? How does that happen? Honestly, sorry for your troubles Ironmike.
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The thing is, all this stuff isn't really new. It's the equivalent of coming out with another 23*'chevy head. It has been R&D'd to death. This is a standard port, standard rocker, standard valve angle head. its pretty much a ported stock head. Nothing moved.
 
Sorry to hear the OP is having such a hard time with this build.

I'm with Ramm. How much power did it lose? Where did it lose it? Where the oil temps the same as the previous dyno session? I also agree with checking to make sure it's not eating it's self.

I've bought parts from Rod before and won't hesitate to buy again. Brett Miller is a sharp guy that knows how to make good power with small block Chryslers. When I was deciding on where I was going with my 434 build he and I spoke several times on the phone, his insight was very helpful and much appreciated. I have confidence in his abilities and respect his opinions.

IMO there is more going on here than the heads.
 
Posting some dyno sheets sure could go along way to providing some direction for you IronMike. J.Rob
 
justinp61 wrote:
IMO there is more going on here than the heads.

Ironmike, there's nothing more frustrating than just waiting.....nothing you can do about that.
But you can give your eng a health checkup!
Check compression, pull valve cover, make sure everything is as you set it up. no loose valve adj(possible bent pushrod) Get your degree wheel back out and check the centerline again. Hell get your dial indicator out and verify your crank thrust just for giggles.
I'm sure everything is find but it give you that piece of mind. and if it's not, you can fix them while you wait.

You probably don't feel like doing much with it, at this point, and i sure don't blame you. But all you can do is look forward, to move forward.
Believe me, if i was anywheres close to you, i would be using these hands to assist not to bang on the keyboard!

keep your chin up.:thumbsup:
 
Cudafever said:
justinp61 wrote:
IMO there is more going on here than the heads.

Ironmike, there's nothing more frustrating than just waiting.....nothing you can do about that.
But you can give your eng a health checkup!
Check compression, pull valve cover, make sure everything is as you set it up. no loose valve adj(possible bent pushrod) Get your degree wheel back out and check the centerline again. Hell get your dial indicator out and verify your crank thrust just for giggles.
I'm sure everything is find but it give you that piece of mind. and if it's not, you can fix them while you wait.

You probably don't feel like doing much with it, at this point, and i sure don't blame you. But all you can do is look forward, to move forward.
Believe me, if i was anywheres close to you, i would be using these hands to assist not to bang on the keyboard!

keep your chin up.:thumbsup:
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Cudafever said:
justinp61 wrote:
IMO there is more going on here than the heads.

Ironmike, there's nothing more frustrating than just waiting.....nothing you can do about that.
But you can give your eng a health checkup!
Check compression, pull valve cover, make sure everything is as you set it up. no loose valve adj(possible bent pushrod) Get your degree wheel back out and check the centerline again. Hell get your dial indicator out and verify your crank thrust just for giggles.
I'm sure everything is find but it give you that piece of mind. and if it's not, you can fix them while you wait.

You probably don't feel like doing much with it, at this point, and i sure don't blame you. But all you can do is look forward, to move forward.
Believe me, if i was anywheres close to you, i would be using these hands to assist not to bang on the keyboard!

keep your chin up.:thumbsup:
Click to expand...
Well well well. I wondered when this **** would start. Don't both you two think that was the FIRST thing I might do.

And Brett Miller didn't port theses heads. He designed the port. They were ported by someone even sharper than him. Is it just too hard to believe that the pros made a mistake? Or maybe the friggin CNC went haywire?

How on earth an engine makes a 560 horsepower pull, comes off the dyno, gets a new pair of heads, then back on the dyno, makes a horrible pull........

I'm having trouble typing this......

I guess it ate itself after I put it back together on the way to the dyno shop.

Come on guys.
 
The conspiracy thinkers are here to badmouth and make baseless claims poking of people they truly don't even know.

Take a deep breath Mike sit back and relax ignore some of the posts.
 
You know, now that I think about it, a lot of these post really piss me off! Here you are trying out a new combination with a brand-new set of heads you in mid that you're a guinea pig you're willing to go for what everybody else took detail and runs and hides it says no I'm not going to do it.

Then when there's a problem or we have a little quips in conspiracies. Maybe you should awaited for someone else to try the hedge. Really? Maybe with the headporters fault. Really?

Perhaps they should try blaming the aliens!

Absolutely no help at all they are.
 
Honestly, most of these guys have been so helpful and I really feel like everyone was pulling for me here.....really feel like I have a TON of support .

Just sooo "effing" frustrated I can't even describe it. Feel like a real *** for buying an unknown product and the kicker is, I'm telling EVERYONE I did it!

Ya know what's crazy is I'm a working class guy that 2 grand is a helluva lot of money. I never mentioned that. My wife keeps reminding me.
 
Yes you have been getting a lot of support. It's a little chirps like I said. Those of the ones I bother me. You had the balls to go out and try something to be the first. That's more that I got pal. I am still pulling for you. Trust me you got a cheerleader flag waiver right here in your corner Buddy!

I believe Rod will do the right thing.

I also have the bigmouth heads. I got sidetracked from building up the engine. At least the sidetrack is worth it, it's the wife's car, 67 Cuda.

I would like very much to get back to my two projects. The other one being a W5 project. I am mearly just a cam, springs, set of rocker arms and pushrods away from finishing the engine.

With the big mouth heads I am also very close to finishing the engine. Similar type of situation. Only a few parts away. And now I'm reading this, it's only freaking me out. I guess it will be just as simply as, it will be what it will be.

And I just want to say thanks for doing this thread even though I know you probably feel embarrassed by it. But at least the world knows and it's a service the entire community is appreciated. So don't feel embarrassed.
 
Dana said:
There has got to be a way to support 600 HP in stock port configuration and still have a nice venturi. As I said in post 235 the eddy's venturi sucks and it looks like the bloomers are relying on the seat to act as the venturi. Like your guy said the "appproach". What's the minimum you can get away with and still reap the benefits???? Mike, if you'd like come over sometime next week, I'll have my guy flow them and pickup the tab. And I'll remain tight lipped if that's the agreement your under for the time being.
Click to expand...
Thanks a bunch, Dana. Hell I'm only 20 minutes or so from Calcutta. I might just take you up on your offer, except no way would I let you get the tab. I'm going to talk to Rod Monday. I'll shoot you a PM if I don't ship them right back to him.
 
Ironmike said:
Well well well. I wondered when this **** would start. Don't both you two think that was the FIRST thing I might do.

And Brett Miller didn't port theses heads. He designed the port. They were ported by someone even sharper than him. Is it just too hard to believe that the pros made a mistake? Or maybe the friggin CNC went haywire?

How on earth an engine makes a 560 horsepower pull, comes off the dyno, gets a new pair of heads, then back on the dyno, makes a horrible pull........

I'm having trouble typing this......

I guess it ate itself after I put it back together on the way to the dyno shop.

Come on guys.
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I'm vary sorry that it came off that way.
Was NOT my intentions...............
 
Cudafever said:
I'm vary sorry that it came off that way.
Was NOT my intentions...............
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I know, man. I'm just a bit "twitchy" lately. No apology necessary. I took a Valium 15 minutes ago. Cup of coffee, 10 or 12 cigs, and I'll be much better.:thumbsup:
 
I've learnt so much from your posts and very grateful for you sharing your ups and downs, keep going mate!
 
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