Missed on this combo?
- Thread starter Ironmike
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stixx
Well-Known Member
You are the investigative guy... ;-)
Ironmike
Well-Known Member
Thanks, man! It's been a helluva ride for sure. I think once I find some heads I'll be just fine.
My dyno guy said if I buy some bare Edelbrocks, NOT ProMaxx or Speedmaster.......he will consider porting them by hand. Might take him awhile but I'll bet they work.
He hasn't given me the official "lets do it" yet. Busy guy
superbeesrt8
Well-Known Member
Why not call bob at modern cly heads has some great working heads
Ironmike
Well-Known Member
Ive heard that from more than one person. I just may do that. Heard they actually flow every head before it goes out the door.
Have to see if my money is really coming back or what. Seems like one of the guys involved is over there on Moparts, questioning my results.
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
I saw that. I thought it was Brett Miller himself, but I don't hang out there much so I didn't really pay attention. From what I saw, one of the guys said he flowed your head and it flowed what it was supposed to. Crap, now I need to go back and read that thread again. I could be put to lunch.
Ironmike
Well-Known Member
don't hang out there at all, but yesterday a buddy called and said I better get over there and defend myself, if necessary.
Last I saw, he sure didn't post his flow numbers. Just said "nothing wrong with them".
Yeah.
Last I saw, he sure didn't post his flow numbers. Just said "nothing wrong with them".
Yeah.
superbeesrt8
Well-Known Member
I just had Bob at modern cly heads do my W9 looked very nice he was very nice to deal with I know Brett does know what he's doing on mopar cly heads the guy makes big power on all his engine look up his engine master post
yeah those guys over at Moparts are a tough bunch. lol
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
superbeesrt8
Well-Known Member
Rod has the flow numbers posted on the flier he has showing the cly heads I think
In the beginning I too felt it could be cylinder heads.
But there are more things involved here than the cylinder heads and I'm not at all convinced it is entirely heads. Look what RAMM has done with rockers, distributor and ignition on the "Cheepy". I'm not saying it is rockers and ignition in this case, but there are lots of other things that could contribute. We don't know what the cranking compression was. Spark plugs and plug gaps? Same plugs, same gaps?
How many ft-lbs does it take to turn the short block over? What did it take to turn the engine over with the valve train set up and the spark plugs out? I've seen different engines vary from 18-30 and 40-90 ft-lbs. Are those readings changing? How about the difference between a hot and cold engine? How much horsepower change from any difference before and during?
Are the the head rocker shaft heights different and does that change the valve lash when hot?
Brett Miller observed that there was some 6 degrees difference in timing required between the two heads. That is one whale of a different timing requirement for heads with similar combustion chambers. What gives there? A combustion chamber size of 4cc's?
What about a different fuel? What does that build require fuel wise? I believe I would be using a pump 91 octane with the cam and compression. However I can't know for sure, 'cause, I don't have cranking compression!
The future is going to reveal some interesting conclusions, observations and results.
Until then, I hope everyone is open and not entirely defensive through the process, on both sides of the cylinder head issue.
But there are more things involved here than the cylinder heads and I'm not at all convinced it is entirely heads. Look what RAMM has done with rockers, distributor and ignition on the "Cheepy". I'm not saying it is rockers and ignition in this case, but there are lots of other things that could contribute. We don't know what the cranking compression was. Spark plugs and plug gaps? Same plugs, same gaps?
How many ft-lbs does it take to turn the short block over? What did it take to turn the engine over with the valve train set up and the spark plugs out? I've seen different engines vary from 18-30 and 40-90 ft-lbs. Are those readings changing? How about the difference between a hot and cold engine? How much horsepower change from any difference before and during?
Are the the head rocker shaft heights different and does that change the valve lash when hot?
Brett Miller observed that there was some 6 degrees difference in timing required between the two heads. That is one whale of a different timing requirement for heads with similar combustion chambers. What gives there? A combustion chamber size of 4cc's?
What about a different fuel? What does that build require fuel wise? I believe I would be using a pump 91 octane with the cam and compression. However I can't know for sure, 'cause, I don't have cranking compression!
The future is going to reveal some interesting conclusions, observations and results.
Until then, I hope everyone is open and not entirely defensive through the process, on both sides of the cylinder head issue.
Yep, I've had them try to hand me my butt on a rusty hubcap!
Lustle
Well-Known Member
Why won't he give the speedmaster heads a look at? Mike over @MRL Performance used the cnc speedmaster heads on his 408 - Curent Projects and made 550TQ 580HP. Obviously they seem to work.
Made less power than the hughes heads, but nothing wrong with them? He said directly over the phone that he didn't like your numbers and was halting the program because of a problem, but nothing wrong with them? He took them back and said he will reimburse you, but nothing wrong with them?
That's just about the stupidest thing I've heard in a while. There's a reason I don't go to moparts.
Ironmike
Well-Known Member
I assumed, or read that ProMaxx took over the Speedmaster name. Sure could be wrong. He has a set of bare ProMaxx on his shelf and said something about "not enough meat there to start on".
Mr Bloomer has been extremely pleasant and seemed really concerned on the phone. The Miller guy didn't seem so nice.....at least in his posts. Mabe nobody but him knows anything. I feel bad for Rod. Here he is stuck between the dude that designed the port, and the the guy who ported them. He's just trying to get a decent product out there.
Ironmike
Well-Known Member
Both motors(heads) were ran on race mix and Sunoco pump. Both tried at several timing numbers. Both dyno sheets represent the best pulls.
I know TWICE I never thought about cranking PSI. I think I was so friggin flustered it just escaped me. As I said before, I run a very similar combo in car now with ported iron @ 10.75 to 1. My cranking psi is 188. Bet ya the new motor is real close.
It isn't anything but the heads, proven workhorse HP950, that's now back on the car. Done quite a few Super Victors now. They all run great. B3 rocker geometry correction. Believe me, I covered all the bases. At least I can't yet think of anything I forgot.
It's very simple physics. Edelbrocks on, 560 horsepower soft bottom end.
Same dyno same weather, BPE on 540 horsepower. And way down in torque compared to Edelbrock.
I certainly am no big name engine guy but seems pretty basic to me.
superbeesrt8
Well-Known Member
Brett has forgot more about clyinder heads then most of us will ever know
Lustle
Well-Known Member
Well whoever said that the heads aren't the problem after Bloomer was that upset about them sounds like an idiot.
I would do a cranking compression and leak down test every time. Otherwise you don't know for sure what's going on. Might have some blowby. Or the rings didn't seat properly. Valves. Or any other number of problems. Something easily missed if you skip those basic tests.
Write them down on your list so next time you remember!
Ironmike
Well-Known Member
did a leakdown. perefect. Blowby reading on dyno was good.
Ironmike
Well-Known Member
I'll bet he sure does! But ya know what? You probably shouldn't sell something, or put your name on it, until it is proven rock solid. I (in caps) was the R&D here. And I payed for it.
I have learned enough about heads that they may look beautiful and maybe even give good flow numbers and on the dyno they sometimes under perform drastically.
Lustle
Well-Known Member
With both sets of heads?
Ironmike
Well-Known Member
No. Leakdown after BPE heads only. Neither heads showed excessive blowby on the dyno.
Ironmike wrote
Mr Bloomer has been extremely pleasant and seemed really concerned on the phone. The Miller guy didn't seem so nice.....at least in his posts. Mabe nobody but him knows anything. I feel bad for Rod. Here he is stuck between the dude that designed the port, and the the guy who ported them. He's just trying to get a decent product out there.
anybody go a line to this thread on Moparts?
You have to really stop and take some time with your thoughts before you hit the keyboard(not saying that you're not). Miller is proud of this project or he wouldn't have done it!
There are a lot of people looking at these head seriously, but you are the only one that had "THE BALLS" to step up to the plate!!!!
They're all taking your data on these heads and saying back to them WHY WHY WHY!!!!!!!!!!!!
In the process, you are going to get **** on as well, and it is going to be hard not to take it personally!!!!!
Why would you have used that cam for this head?
You degreed it all wrong!!!
Not enough or to much compression.
Your dyno man is inconsistent and you can figure it out!!!
Ba bla bla.
IQ52 WROTE
The future is going to reveal some interesting conclusions, observations and results.
Until then, I hope everyone is open and not entirely defensive through the process, on both sides of the cylinder head issue.
Mr Bloomer has been extremely pleasant and seemed really concerned on the phone. The Miller guy didn't seem so nice.....at least in his posts. Mabe nobody but him knows anything. I feel bad for Rod. Here he is stuck between the dude that designed the port, and the the guy who ported them. He's just trying to get a decent product out there.
anybody go a line to this thread on Moparts?
You have to really stop and take some time with your thoughts before you hit the keyboard(not saying that you're not). Miller is proud of this project or he wouldn't have done it!
There are a lot of people looking at these head seriously, but you are the only one that had "THE BALLS" to step up to the plate!!!!
They're all taking your data on these heads and saying back to them WHY WHY WHY!!!!!!!!!!!!
In the process, you are going to get **** on as well, and it is going to be hard not to take it personally!!!!!
Why would you have used that cam for this head?
You degreed it all wrong!!!
Not enough or to much compression.
Your dyno man is inconsistent and you can figure it out!!!
Ba bla bla.
IQ52 WROTE
The future is going to reveal some interesting conclusions, observations and results.
Until then, I hope everyone is open and not entirely defensive through the process, on both sides of the cylinder head issue.
Moparts thread..........
how accurate is Hughes cfm charts? | Unlawfl's Race & Engine Tech | Moparts Forums
how accurate is Hughes cfm charts? | Unlawfl's Race & Engine Tech | Moparts Forums
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