My take on the oiling system crossover tube for the small block

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Duane said:
I also never disagreed with you on the oil timing issue.
I only disagreed on how you fixed it.
The key thing that I think people miss is that regardless of whether you choose to tube or bush the block or run the crossover line,
Both methods require you to plug the end of the galley on the passenger side.
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Sorry, do you mean the driver side / left side.
IIRC, the MP engines book does not say to block the oil feed or use a Allen head set screw to block oil on the right / passenger side. That valley still feeds the front main and rods, IIRC


Jadas discussion on this thread is about the crossover method to deal with the galley problem.
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The crossover tube is for Hyd. lifters, roller or not.
Correct?

the common issue is the blocking of the end of the galley which cuts the leakage completely from the drivers side and #1 main and rod no longer have the entire drivers side rocker and lifter oiling being taken off of number #1 main which is also starving the rods fed from that main.
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The main and con rods. Isn’t being feed from the passenger side?
 
rumblefish360 said:
Sorry, do you mean the driver side / left side.
IIRC, the MP engines book does not say to block the oil feed or use a Allen head set screw to block oil on the right / passenger side. That valley still feeds the front main and rods, IIRC



The crossover tube is for Hyd. lifters, roller or not.
Correct?


The main and con rods. Isn’t being feed from the passenger side?
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Some people accomplish the same thing in different locations.
The crossover method requires the front main to be oiled in reverse from the drivers side. But you still are supposed to block the end
Of the passenger side galley.
 
Duane said:
Some people accomplish the same thing in different locations.
The crossover method requires the front main to be oiled in reverse from the drivers side. But you still are supposed to block the end of the passenger side galley.
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When you use the cross over tube that is correct?
Thanks Duane.
 
rumblefish360 said:
When you use the cross over tube that is correct?
Thanks Duane.
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If you are tubing or bushing the block then you can block the line at any one of 2 locations. Just as long as you cut the flow to the drivers side. Again this cuts the velocity because you cut the leakage. Be careful if blocking the line at the end of the passenger side that you get the pipe plug positioned so the it does not block the feed passage down to #1 main. I usually grind a notch in the pipe plug to allow the oil to still go down to the main, but cap the line and still fit under the cam thrust plate.
 
In stock configuration, the left galley supplies the lifters, period. Not the rocker gear, not a main bearing. The oil for that galley comes from the main saddle under the #1 main. #1 cam bearing also is fed from there. If you don't need to pressurize the lifters, why create a roundabout circuit, feed and pressurize the oil in a galley and feed #1 from the end of all of that, instead of just fixing the issues with right galley, keeping it full and feeding #1 as designed. Block the left galley at the source (#1 main) and keep it dry. Keep it simple and direct.

Once the supply to the crank is squared away and optimized, the second part of the equation is controlling and keeping the oil on the crank, instead of squirting off to the cam bearings and the heads. Yes that stuff needs to be lubed, but you don't need to pump the pan dry to do it.
 
CMcAllister said:
In stock configuration, the left galley supplies the lifters, period. Not the rocker gear, not a main bearing. The oil for that galley comes from the main saddle under the #1 main. #1 cam bearing also is fed from there. If you don't need to pressurize the lifters, why create a roundabout circuit, feed and pressurize the oil in a galley and feed #1 from the end of all of that, instead of just fixing the issues with right galley, keeping it full and feeding #1 as designed. Block the left galley at the source (#1 main) and keep it dry. Keep it simple and direct.

Once the supply to the crank is squared away and optimized, the second part of the equation is controlling and keeping the oil on the crank, instead of squirting off to the cam bearings and the heads. Yes that stuff needs to be lubed, but you don't need to pump the pan dry to do it.
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.
This is about using a hydraulic lifter cam and keeping the bottom end alive.
Have you ever pumped a pan dry?
 
Jadaharabi said:
.
This is about using a hydraulic lifter cam and keeping the bottom end alive.
Have you ever pumped a pan dry?
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Maybe. I've always ran a big pump. We had some issues early on losing oil pressure in the shut down area. Changes in the pan design and an accusump helped with that. I'm just illustrating that there's a lot of oil going places it doesn't need to instead of being kept on the crank. That's fine in a stock application that rarely sees more than 3K. I've also never tried to run a hydraulic cam to the RPMs I'm thinking about here. If I did, or if I oiled the top end through the pushrods, I would bush the lifters and control the amount of oil on the lifters.
 
Jadaharabi said:
.
This is about using a hydraulic lifter cam and keeping the bottom end alive.
Have you ever pumped a pan dry?
Click to expand...


You better go back and read the first post. THis post is not only about hydraulic cam engines. It about small block oiling. Period.
 
CMcAllister said:
Maybe. I've always ran a big pump. We had some issues early on losing oil pressure in the shut down area. Changes in the pan design and an accusump helped with that. I'm just illustrating that there's a lot of oil going places it doesn't need to instead of being kept on the crank. That's fine in a stock application that rarely sees more than 3K. I've also never tried to run a hydraulic cam to the RPMs I'm thinking about here. If I did, or if I oiled the top end through the pushrods, I would bush the lifters and control the amount of oil on the lifters.
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You and yellow rose could have a great discussion about all this because he believes that the main problem is the oil timing from when the oil leaves the saddle to when it hits the rod bearing.
 
pittsburghracer said:
You better go back and read the first post. THis post is not only about hydraulic cam engines. It about small block oiling. Period.
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I really like your Duster. Especially the way it leaves the line.

As for the first post I wrote it.

"This is a combination of my thoughts and ideas taken from the Guitar Jones oiling system modifications thread.
If you have some input that would help along these lines and to clarify some of the thinking you're more than welcome to post but if you think that you just need to post negative don't bother I'm not interested."

My = Me
 
CMcAllister said:
Maybe. I've always ran a big pump. We had some issues early on losing oil pressure in the shut down area. Changes in the pan design and an accusump helped with that. I'm just illustrating that there's a lot of oil going places it doesn't need to instead of being kept on the crank. That's fine in a stock application that rarely sees more than 3K. I've also never tried to run a hydraulic cam to the RPMs I'm thinking about here. If I did, or if I oiled the top end through the pushrods, I would bush the lifters and control the amount of oil on the lifters.
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I know that you may be reluctant to answer this and if so I understand. Do you slot your main bearing oil feed hole on a hig rpm build?
 
pittsburghracer said:
When a post goes on for 15 pages about an un-needed tube it’s going to turn into a train wreck. Lol
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I don,t agree that it's not needed. I view it as an alternative way to achieve the same results.
The modification back in the day was claimed reliable to 10,000 rpm.
I am not sure if it was specifically for hydraulic lifters or not.
 
The problem is the original poster wants to express his opinion and thoughts, but he doesn't want to listen to any others experiences that he doesn't agree with. Myself, and a handful of others, have demonstrated that he is not 100% correct, but he isn't interested in any of that, he would rather try to insult than learn.
 
CMcAllister said:
The crossover tube is crap. The left side galley should be dry. The only reason for oil there is hydraulic lifters or oil through pushrods and I wouldn't use either of those either. Not with OE style rocker shafts. However, a direct oil auxiliary line putting oil into the front of the right galley is a good idea. This can be plumbed to the passages at the back of the block, the filter adapter or wherever and run under the intake or externally to the front of the block.
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I used to run my motor the way you described with the driver side dry.
With my current build I am trying a set of these new roller lifters with bushings instead of needle bearings in the axles of the lifters. These want a little bit of oil. I have bushed the block both banks and the lifter bushings have a .030 feed hole. I have run a jumper line over to the drivers side.
I am also front oiling the passenger galley as you have said(externally on an X block). Now imho front oiling completely
Eliminates velocity in the galley because of opposing pressures.
As I have said in another post, I believe all three methods essentially achieve the same thing to improve the distribution to the main bearings from the galley.
 
Duane said:
You and yellow rose could have a great discussion about all this because he believes that the main problem is the oil timing from when the oil leaves the saddle to when it hits the rod bearing.
Click to expand...

I agree that the timing could have/has something to do with it. That and the direction the oil has to move through the crank vs. centrifugal forces. However, I've tried full groove bearings, cross drilling cranks, etc with zero benefits.

Another issue is the timing of the passage in the cam journal lining up with the block passages vs. where the crank is as far as the rod/piston being under a high load i.e. on the firing stroke. Does a 1/4" hole suddenly opening from the main saddle all the way to the head cause a quick drop in pressure just as the load on the rod bearing is greatest?
 
Duane said:
I used to run my motor the way you described with the driver side dry.
With my current build I am trying a set of these new roller lifters with bushings instead of needle bearings in the axles of the lifters. These want a little bit of oil. I have bushed the block both banks and the lifter bushings have a .030 feed hole. I have run a jumper line over to the drivers side.
I am also front oiling the passenger galley as you have said(externally on an X block). Now imho front oiling completely
Eliminates velocity in the galley because of opposing pressures.

As I have said in another post, I believe all three methods essentially achieve the same thing to improve the distribution to the main bearings from the galley.
Click to expand...

I agree, if pressurized oil is needed in the left galley, a crossover or some other method of achieving that, is much preferable to taking oil from #1 main to supply it. With a system where oil is also fed in the front, a crossover plumbed at the center of the right galley would help insure the mains remain the priority.

.030" is a big hole. Did the lifter manufacturer recommend that?
 
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I guess I would really get heck if it ever gets out that on occasions I don’t even run a full groove main bearing on my 9 second engines. Lol. 3-2-1 go.
 
CMcAllister said:
I agree that the timing could have/has something to do with it. That and the direction the oil has to move through the crank vs. centrifugal forces. However, I've tried full groove bearings, cross drilling cranks, etc with zero benefits.

Another issue is the timing of the passage in the cam journal lining up with the block passages vs. where the crank is as far as the rod/piston being under a high load i.e. on the firing stroke. Does a 1/4" hole suddenly opening from the main saddle all the way to the head cause a quick drop in pressure just as the load on the rod bearing is greatest?
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Oh I never disagreed with him on the issue. Only on how he chose to address the problem.
An observation that I made to him was that my 1969 340 never had the large counter bores machined into the bearing saddles like most newer blocks do. I can only assume that either my block missed a machining operation during manufacture my theory is that Chrysler became aware of the issue and began adding that counterbore to the bearing saddles to address the issue. As you have said, below 3000 rpm not much of a problem, but at high rpm combined with slotted bearings that Mopar performance used to sell you have shifted the timing of when the oil hits the bearing. Your comments
about the cam timing seems logical too and makes the case to restrict the flow of oil to the cam bearings.
 
pittsburghracer said:
And did it state for hydraulic cams ONLY or did I miss something
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Just to be fair he did say that his first post was his thoughts on the guitar jones oiling thread. In that thread Guitar jones said the crossover mod was for use with hydraulic lifters.
 
Duane said:
I don,t agree that it's not needed. I view it as an alternative way to achieve the same results.
The modification back in the day was claimed reliable to 10,000 rpm.
I am not sure if it was specifically for hydraulic lifters or not.
Click to expand...

IMHO, the crossover is one of the solutions for oiling the left galley, all of which are better than feeding it off of #1 main. If you don't need oil in the left side, it has no good purpose.
 
CMcAllister said:
I agree, if pressurized oil is needed in the left galley, a crossover or some other method of achieving that, is much preferable to taking oil for #1 main to supply it. With a system where oil is also fed in the front, a crossover plumbed at the center of the right galley would help insure the mains remain the priority.

.030" is a big hole. Did the lifter manufactuer recommend that?
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I was told .060 and .030 were only available.
 
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