Noob question 727 really low shift points

[Dave Haertel]

Just getting my project rolling. Engine is running, not strong but consistent (still needs good timing and tuning), while in drive going through the gears, 1st to 2nd and 2nd to 3rd are both done by between 25 and 30 MPH as I don't have a working tach, I'm not sure what RPM that is but its not much, I've been taking it easy on this thing because it hasn't been on the road in months and I'm babying it just to get a sense of what's what.

Background on the transmission, neutral safety switch had backed out and lost fluid. Shop filled it back up after reinstalling NSS and said drive it for a month, come back and we'll do a full service, drop the pan and check it again to see how it did. Here's a photo of the pan when they dropped it originally to inspect and refill it and suggested driving it for the month.

Some additional background on the car, front end of my baby was almost a full rebuild, steering column, plunge joint, pitman arm, idler arms, tie rods, ball joints, shocks and I'm doing control arm bushings this weekend. Transmission rebuild or swap is not something I really want to think about at the moment after what I've spent in the last month getting it up and running mostly safe down the road.

Never messed with transmissions at all, comfortable working on a bunch of things on the car but this is one area that has just been something I avoided. Anything I can check for as far as basics go, just to maybe eliminate some things?

Thanks in advance.

 

[TrailBeast]

Just getting my project rolling. Engine is running, not strong but consistent (still needs good timing and tuning), while in drive going through the gears, 1st to 2nd and 2nd to 3rd are both done by between 25 and 30 MPH as I don't have a working tach, I'm not sure what RPM that is but its not much, I've been taking it easy on this thing because it hasn't been on the road in months and I'm babying it just to get a sense of what's what.

Background on the transmission, neutral safety switch had backed out and lost fluid. Shop filled it back up after reinstalling NSS and said drive it for a month, come back and we'll do a full service, drop the pan and check it again to see how it did. Here's a photo of the pan when they dropped it originally to inspect and refill it and suggested driving it for the month.

Some additional background on the car, front end of my baby was almost a full rebuild, steering column, plunge joint, pitman arm, idler arms, tie rods, ball joints, shocks and I'm doing control arm bushings this weekend. Transmission rebuild or swap is not something I really want to think about at the moment after what I've spent in the last month getting it up and running mostly safe down the road.

Never messed with transmissions at all, comfortable working on a bunch of things on the car but this is one area that has just been something I avoided. Anything I can check for as far as basics go, just to maybe eliminate some things?

Thanks in advance.

Fluid is red, no big chunks or black flakes and taking into account what a picture does to stuff like that I would say it looks fairly normal.
Stock these transmissions shifted really early, but some adjustments to the throttle pressure might help.
Has it been checked and set that you know of?

 

[d55dave]

Do you have a properly adjusted throttle pressure (kickdown linkage) installed?

Lack or misadjustment of this linkage will lead to insufficient line pressure and therefore clutch holding force, very early shift points and early transmission failure.

 

[Dave Haertel]

Do you have a properly adjusted throttle pressure (kickdown linkage) installed?

Lack or misadjustment of this linkage will lead to insufficient line pressure and therefore clutch holding force, very early shift points and early transmission failure.

It's actually sad to say it but I'm not sure about the kickdown linkage. I may have just assumed on that and not done a very good inspection of things.

The shop I took it to just really dropped the pan, checked the fluid, reseated the NSS and that was about it, so no adjustments or tweaks of any kind on it.

 

[Dave Haertel]

Fluid is red, no big chunks or black flakes and taking into account what a picture does to stuff like that I would say it looks fairly normal.
Stock these transmissions shifted really early, but some adjustments to the throttle pressure might help.
Has it been checked and set that you know of?

Hey Beast, so not yet, they just dropped the pan, reseated the NSS and refilled the fluid and wanted me to drive it for about a month and then come back in to do a full service. My problem is if this is going to damage the tranny, I'd rather address it now.

 

[KickDown]

My problem is if this is going to damage the tranny, I'd rather address it now.

A very wise move. If your throttle pressure linkage is not hooked up & properly adjusted you will toast your transmision in a very short time. This would be my first port of call as an improperly adjusted TP linkage will create the exact symptoms you have.

 

[Dave Haertel]

A very wise move. If your throttle pressure linkage is not hooked up & properly adjusted you will toast your transmision in a very short time. This would be my first port of call as an improperly adjusted TP linkage will create the exact symptoms you have.

Most appreciated, I'll be looking to get it in asap then. I'm planning on trying to learn the ins and outs of transmissions. Actually thinking of buying a scrapped one to build on the bench. I've always learned better by doing (as probably most have), so that will probably help me tremendously.

 

[toolmanmike]

Your kickdown should look something like this. Pull off the throttle spring, the clip and washer and pull the slotted rod off the throttle pin. The end of the slot should touch the pin or close to it to start with. If you open the throttle all the way, the linkage should be wide open down at the transmission. If yours looks something like the second picture, You need to close the gap in the slot. The slotted end screws in and out.

 

[Dave Haertel]

Your kickdown should look something like this. Pull off the throttle spring, the clip and washer and pull the slotted rod off the throttle pin. The end of the slot should touch the pin or close to it to start with. If you open the throttle all the way, the linkage should be wide open down at the transmission. If yours looks something like the second picture, You need to close the gap in the slot. The slotted end screws in and out.

View attachment 1715095506

View attachment 1715095507

I'll have a look when I get home, but I actually don't remember seeing a second linkage next to the carb, I only remember for sure seeing the throttle linkage. I absolutely would not be surprised if this wasn't there after realizing how butchered this car was when I bought it and how much I was lied to about the car. I looked at the engine shot I have in the garage photos section and I can't tell with the air cleaner mounted, so I'll have to look when I get home. Thanks for the visual though, that's huge.

 

[HemiSSDart]

I had the same thing happen when my kickdown linkage was way out of adjustment.

 

[TrailBeast]

Hey Beast, so not yet, they just dropped the pan, reseated the NSS and refilled the fluid and wanted me to drive it for about a month and then come back in to do a full service. My problem is if this is going to damage the tranny, I'd rather address it now.

Do not drive the car unless that linkage like Toolman posted, or something like it.
If there is no linkage you could try and find it, or replace it with a cable system like some do.
If when you drove it and happened to notice the trans still shifts at the same speeds even with more throttle, there is a good chance that linkage is either missing or not hooked up.

If you find it is there and adjusted we can address the early shift points a couple of ways.
1. shift kit
2. governor change
3. I have a little trick that works really well that only takes a few minutes.

That is explained here Ok (click the "Ok"), but check your adjustment first.
Of course this only works on the original rod type throttle pressure rod system.

 

[Dave Haertel]

So I had my son take a couple of pictures, unfortunately there's a good bit of shadow but I actually don't see the linkage.

 

[HemiSSDart]

I see NO kickdown linkage! You don't need it if you have a manual valve body in the trans, if not it MUST be present linkage or cable because the pressure in the trans will stay constant and WILL burn up the clutches in no time!

 

[Dave Haertel]

I see NO kickdown linkage! You don't need it if you have a manual valve body in the trans, if not it MUST be present linkage or cable because the pressure in the trans will stay constant and WILL burn up the clutches in no time!

Ok, so when I got the car, I got nothing to go on, literally guy lied and said it was a 360, it's actually a 340, told me the trans was perfect, drove it up and down the driveway, but when the car was delivered, trans fluid was empty, NSS was backed out almost full, so I've got nothing to go on with this trans, or the differential for that matter. I'll crawl under the car this evening and get a stamping number or something so I can at least look this thing up and make sure of what I have. I'll post more this evening. It's parked now, so it won't go anywhere until this is done, I put about 50 miles on it between work and errands yesterday, hopefully I didn't trash the whole thing.

Side note, this was in a shop, they had their hands in it, pulled the pan and reset the NSS and refilled it, wouldn't this be something they'd check and let me know about? If it's supposed to be there, based on the type of valve body, that would drum extra labor for them, right? Just thinking out loud.

 

[TrailBeast]

Ok, so when I got the car, I got nothing to go on, literally guy lied and said it was a 360, it's actually a 340, told me the trans was perfect, drove it up and down the driveway, but when the car was delivered, trans fluid was empty, NSS was backed out almost full, so I've got nothing to go on with this trans, or the differential for that matter. I'll crawl under the car this evening and get a stamping number or something so I can at least look this thing up and make sure of what I have. I'll post more this evening. It's parked now, so it won't go anywhere until this is done, I put about 50 miles on it between work and errands yesterday, hopefully I didn't trash the whole thing.

Side note, this was in a shop, they had their hands in it, pulled the pan and reset the NSS and refilled it, wouldn't this be something they'd check and let me know about? If it's supposed to be there, based on the type of valve body, that would drum extra labor for them, right? Just thinking out loud.

I'd be surprised if I found a shop that knew what it was (or wasn't)
If you do a Google search you can find lots of images showing what used to be there.

I would get under that thing, or look down there with a flashlight and see if it's got the lever and what is or isn't there and take it from there.
On the trans, there should be a lever like this fingers pointing at.
Some had a knobbed stud like this and some have a hole the end of a rod goes into.
In any case, this is the throttle pressure control.
(the farther back to the rear of the trans the more pressure it gives in the trans to make shift appropriately timed and holding pressures higher for clutches and bands)
This is why it can burn them up if nothing is hooked up, because the trans thinks the car is just sitting at idle and doesn't need the raised pressures.

 

[Dave Haertel]

I'd be surprised if I found a shop that knew what it was (or wasn't)
If you do a Google search you can find lots of images showing what used to be there.

I would get under that thing, or look down there with a flashlight and see if it's got the lever and what is or isn't there and take it from there.
On the trans, there should be a lever like this fingers pointing at.
Some had a knobbed stud like this and some have a hole the end of a rod goes into.
In any case, this is the throttle pressure control.

View attachment 1715095537

Ok, I'll definitely be under there this evening. One way or another I'll have an idea about this before tomorrow.

 

[TrailBeast]

Ok, I'll definitely be under there this evening. One way or another I'll have an idea about this before tomorrow.

Cool, and once you see what is missing you can make an informed decision on where to go from there.
If ALL the linkage is missing then the cable control may be the best replacement.
I know I sure like mine with the cable instead of all those rods and crap like the factory used.

 

[Dave Haertel]

Cool, and once you see what is missing you can make an informed decision on where to go from there.
If ALL the linkage is missing then the cable control may be the best replacement.
I know I sure like mine with the cable instead of all those rods and crap like the factory used.

If I do end up needing to replace it all, can you link to a good kit to purchase?

 

[TrailBeast]

If I do end up needing to replace it all, can you link to a good kit to purchase?

If you want the OE stuff then you can post that you need it and what it's for.
Tony (whitepunkonnitro) on here would be a resource also, as I have gotten some of the stuff I needed from him and he and his wife do a nice job of supplying some hard to find parts.
As I mentioned some use the cable system from Lokar.
Myself, I think the lokar stuff is way over priced and got a kit from another manufacturer/seller.

Lokar KD-2904HT: Chrysler TF-904 Stainless Steel Kickdown Cable Kit Brushed Finish Aluminum Fittings and Ferrule | JEGS

After some comparison research I ordered this kit, been running it for about a year now with zero problems with it.
Chrysler 727 Flexible Kick down cable detent throttle transmission Kit stainless | eBay

BTW, a lot of this kind of parts interchange between the 904 and 727 (like control cables)

 

[Dave Haertel]

If you want the OE stuff then you can post that you need it and what it's for.
Tony (whitepunkonnitro) on here would be a resource also, as I have gotten some of the stuff I needed from him and he and his wife do a nice job of supplying some hard to find parts.
As I mentioned some use the cable system from Lokar.
Myself, I think the lokar stuff is way over priced and got a kit from another manufacturer/seller.

Lokar KD-2904HT: Chrysler TF-904 Stainless Steel Kickdown Cable Kit Brushed Finish Aluminum Fittings and Ferrule | JEGS

After some comparison research I ordered this kit, been running it for about a year now with zero problems with it.
Chrysler 727 Flexible Kick down cable detent throttle transmission Kit stainless | eBay

BTW, a lot of this kind of parts interchange between the 904 and 727 (like control cables)

Excellent, I'm thinking the cable is the better way to go also. Probably easier to run, it probably won't need a massive adjustment like the linkage might and probably more durable.

 

[Dave Haertel]

Excellent, I'm thinking the cable is the better way to go also. Probably easier to run, it probably won't need a massive adjustment like the linkage might and probably more durable.

Ok, so I ordered the kickdown cable and Beast I ordered the control arm bushings you recommended last week for the front end.

 

[aeonmcallister]

Been down this road myself. Its one of the intricacies of owning a mopar eg. ballast resistors, external alternator regulator, ignition control modules. They are all fairly simple systems but if you are not familiar with them they can throw you for a loop and in this case shorten the life of your trans. If you didn't already, order the lokar bracket as well. I'm looking at your picture and it doesn't look like your current throttle cable bracket will have a place for the cable to hook up. Once you get it all installed be aware you will need to most likely adjust it. This means finding a straight stretch of road driving through the gears, pull over turn a quarter turn whichever way the instruction state then repeat. Took me about 6 passes to adjust the last time i did one.

 

[Dave Haertel]

Been down this road myself. Its one of the intricacies of owning a mopar eg. ballast resistors, external alternator regulator, ignition control modules. They are all fairly simple systems but if you are not familiar with them they can throw you for a loop and in this case shorten the life of your trans. If you didn't already, order the lokar bracket as well. I'm looking at your picture and it doesn't look like your current throttle cable bracket will have a place for the cable to hook up. Once you get it all installed be aware you will need to most likely adjust it. This means finding a straight stretch of road driving through the gears, pull over turn a quarter turn whichever way the instruction state then repeat. Took me about 6 passes to adjust the last time i did one.

Lol, I just replaced the external voltage regulator last night. I've had them before, my very first was a 72 Duster with a slant 6, back in 88-89 time frame. I remember a lot but I also would have probably taken more shortcuts back then than I'm willing to now, so that'll mean figuring out this stuff on the fly. I did order the bracket as well, I chatted with one of their tech guys and he brought it up to me as well. Is all the adjustment done up at the carb?

 

[aeonmcallister]

Lol, I just replaced the external voltage regulator last night. I've had them before, my very first was a 72 Duster with a slant 6, back in 88-89 time frame. I remember a lot but I also would have probably taken more shortcuts back then than I'm willing to now, so that'll mean figuring out this stuff on the fly. I did order the bracket as well, I chatted with one of their tech guys and he brought it up to me as well. Is all the adjustment done up at the carb?

Initial adjustment is at both ends but unless its is extremely out of whack you should be able to dial it in at the carb side.

 

[Dave Haertel]

Initial adjustment is at both ends but unless its is extremely out of whack you should be able to dial it in at the carb side.

Ok, sounds good. It'll hopefully get here tomorrow.