Only runs 40 Degrees advanced

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Maybe the dumbest question yet, but since this all started after you swapped out distributors.... Do you have the damn plug wires in the right order?
Asking for a friend.
Time to start posting some photos! 4 pages now and my bet is that it has to be something fairly simple. Maybe your timing chain jumped MANY teeth?
 
MobileCustoms said:
Maybe the dumbest question yet, but since this all started after you swapped out distributors.... Do you have the damn plug wires in the right order?
Asking for a friend.
Time to start posting some photos! 4 pages now and my bet is that it has to be something fairly simple. Maybe your timing chain jumped MANY teeth?
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Yes I have checked the wires several times when changing between distributors and also checked the timing chain and gear set
 
I am not a fan of MSD , never have been . My suggestion: get a piston stop , find true TDC , compare that to the timing marks on the engine . R&R the dizzy with a factory unit . Set it up #1 TDC , fire the sucker up, warm it up, adjust advance to factory . If factory adjustments don't work , it's not the MSD. If factory adjustments work with a factory dizzy, use the MSD as target practice . IMO you have too many things going on that affect your engine . Too many computors running your car. If the factory dizzy doesn't work there is a mechanical issue . You can solve this . Take a step by step approach , one thing at a time . I know you have done it several times already but you missed something .
 
As i mentioned before i’m not all that familiar with msd. But troubleshooting computerized vehicles is something i do on a regular basis. A computer will never tell you its faulty unless its flat out dead. That applies to any automotive component that uses a processor.
After installing multiple distributors and achieving the same results, that is a clear indication you should look elsewhere.
 
Tooljunkie said:
As i mentioned before i’m not all that familiar with msd. But troubleshooting computerized vehicles is something i do on a regular basis. A computer will never tell you its faulty unless its flat out dead. That applies to any automotive component that uses a processor.
After installing multiple distributors and achieving the same results, that is a clear indication you should look elsewhere.
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My friend just got his new msd box,installed it and won't rev past 2500 rpm no matter the limiter setting.Msd said to send it back so it's faulty but works normal up to 2500 rpm
 
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383Scampman said:
I am not a fan of MSD , never have been . My suggestion: get a piston stop , find true TDC , compare that to the timing marks on the engine . R&R the dizzy with a factory unit . Set it up #1 TDC , fire the sucker up, warm it up, adjust advance to factory . If factory adjustments don't work , it's not the MSD. If factory adjustments work with a factory dizzy, use the MSD as target practice . IMO you have too many things going on that affect your engine . Too many computors running your car. If the factory dizzy doesn't work there is a mechanical issue . You can solve this . Take a step by step approach , one thing at a time . I know you have done it several times already but you missed something .
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I did try putting a stock distributor in yesterday but that meant an old set of wires that I was not confident in. Because of course they’re not HEI like all the Holley and MSD caps are. I could turn it and get spark but when I put it in the car it didn’t spark so I yank that I am setting up top dead center and putting the MSD back in for another try. One guy said to pay attention to the reluctor and the pick up coil so I am going to try to set that at 13° If it would fire then I’m sure it should run. Somebody said post pictures but I don’t know what of that would help.
 
I am about ready to crank it up with the MSD. I have the damper set at 13° I turned the distributor so it is just passing the reluctor and the rotor is on number one this was a suggestion from one of you guys sounds like it was worth a try I will find out if this helps. In this picture you can see the brass rotor
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aiming at number one
 
OK I tried it again with the MSD set up at 13°. Rotor pointing at number one with the reluctor just passing the pick up coil. I got the same result it will crank and crank and not fire once. until I turn the key off then it tries to run backwards and blows all kinds of gas out the top of that sniper. Then I grab the distributor crank it way over try again it starts right up runs on fast idle just like normal slows down to regular idle sounds perfect I checked the timing it’s at 45° I turn it down to 30 it’s still running I turn it off I restart it. it only turns over to or three times and it Starts right up. Now do you think this is OK it’s Idles until it got hot the fans kicked on everything seems normal. I drop it in gear it dies I’m sure I couldn’t even drive it down the street. I look in the window on the I can see the rotor firing right at number one at 40° This is kicking my ***
 
Just to make sure, Is the damper set at 13 degrees BEFORE top dead center? I would probably set it more like 18-20 degrees before TDC, and then rotate the distributor until the rotor lines right up to the #1 plug wire tower. at that point the reluctor should also be lined up to the magnetic pickup. The dist rotates clockwise on small blocks.
 
when you say that you had to advance it to 40 degrees to make it run, which way did you spin your dist. to achieve that? clockwise or counter-clockwise?
 
Here's what I think is happening:
I think you are have the damper set to your timing mark but you are NOT on the compression stroke. So then when you line up your distributor, it is actually 180 degrees off. You can confirm you are coming up on the compression stroke by removing #1 plug and put your finger over the plug hole. When you crank it around by hand on the balancer, you will feel it pressurize and it will push your finger off the plug hole. That's where you need to be when you line up the dizzy to the #1 plug.
 
MobileCustoms said:
Just to make sure, Is the damper set at 13 degrees BEFORE top dead center? I would probably set it more like 18-20 degrees before TDC, and then rotate the distributor until the rotor lines right up to the #1 plug wire tower. at that point the reluctor should also be lined up to the magnetic pickup. The dist rotates clockwise on small blocks.
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Yes I had it set 13° before top dead center Did not fire one time at that setting soon as I cranked it over to about 40° advanced it took off ran like normal
 
MobileCustoms said:
Here's what I think is happening:
I think you are have the damper set to your timing mark but you are NOT on the compression stroke. So then when you line up your distributor, it is actually 180 degrees off. You can confirm you are coming up on the compression stroke by removing #1 plug and put your finger over the plug hole. When you crank it around by hand on the balancer, you will feel it pressurize and it will push your finger off the plug hole. That's where you need to be when you line up the dizzy to the #1 plug.
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Yes that is how I find top dead center every time I let it blow my finger off. Then I take my socket and turn it to where I want
 
RustyRatRod said:
Have you verified TDC?
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Rusty I know you keep saying that. I have done it every way possible I used a screwdriver in the hole and watched it I let it blow my finger off the number one. I checked it when I had the cam cover off and just put the damper back on to see where it lined up I’ve checked top dead center every way I could. I even had the head off And looked at number one and it was right up even with the deck.
 
mr65cuda said:
Rusty I know you keep saying that. I have done it every way possible I used a screwdriver in the hole and watched it I let it blow my finger off the number one. I checked it when I had the cam cover off and just put the damper back on to see where it lined up I’ve checked top dead center every way I could. I even had the head off And looked at number one and it was right up even with the deck.
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What you're missing is simple math. TDC is at the halfway point between where the piston meets the stop rotating one way and then the other. That's "the only place" it is. TDC is the basis for every single operation of that engine. It is the root of every single camshaft and valve event. It is essential to know EXACTLY where it is and that it's RIGHT, not "guessed with a screwdriver". That's why I'm hammering on it. It doesn't seem to be getting through. Unless that one thing is verified 100%, every single "other thing" could be wrong.

If this was my car and I was in your shoes, I would be doing everything people were suggesting........ESPECIALLY since it's FREE! I'll leave you with it this time. I've tried, beat it to death and done all I can. It's the one thing you haven't done, yet it STILL won't run.

If you ever do check it, I hope it's right. I hope it's something simple like the MSD box or some such, but you had a MECHANICAL FAILURE. TDC would have been then FIRST thing on my list to verify, absolutely, 100%.

Good luck!
 
A couple of people have mentioned the MSD box it has always worked perfectly but there is a little box that came with the sniper set up that can eliminate the MSD box it’s called a coil driver I don’t know if it could be just throwing in an extra 20° of advance for some reason I’m going to try to find a diagram of how to wire it in
 
RustyRatRod said:
What you're missing is simple math. TDC is at the halfway point between where the piston meets the stop rotating one way and then the other. That's "the only place" it is. TDC is the basis for every single operation of that engine. It is the root of every single camshaft and valve event. It is essential to know EXACTLY where it is and that it's RIGHT, not "guessed with a screwdriver". That's why I'm hammering on it. It doesn't seem to be getting through. Unless that one thing is verified 100%, every single "other thing" could be wrong.

If this was my car and I was in your shoes, I would be doing everything people were suggesting........ESPECIALLY since it's FREE! I'll leave you with it this time. I've tried, beat it to death and done all I can. It's the one thing you haven't done, yet it STILL won't run.

If you ever do check it, I hope it's right. I hope it's something simple like the MSD box or some such, but you had a MECHANICAL FAILURE. TDC would have been then FIRST thing on my list to verify, absolutely, 100%.

Good luck!
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I have been trying almost every suggestion that people give me and I have replied to almost every suggestion and told him whether it worked or not. The Holley install video says to use a whistle stop to find top dead center I don’t have one of those. But this is a stock crank and a stock damper it only has about 30,000 miles on it since I build it. It’s not a new Cam this Cam has been in here for 4-5 years. I had the timing cover off and check the keyways and the Cams alignment and also checked where the damper said TDC was. So it’s not like I have built some kind of exotic motor with a aftermarket crank or something what was your suggestion for me to find TDC? I sure thought I had tried
 
Seems like I read somewhere that not all aftermarket distributors are indexed like a factory distributor is. So maybe with the pump drive gear slot pointed at the first left intake bolt and the engine is at tdc, the rotor points at no 1 tower on the cap with the stock distributor.
Say you pulled the stock distributor out without turning the motor and put your aftermarket distributor in and due to the shaft being indexed differently the rotor now points to no 8 on the tower and you have to make no 8 now no 1. Is the distributor you replaced the broken with a different brand and also not a factory one?
 
67dodgedartconv said:
Seems like I read somewhere that not all aftermarket distributors are indexed like a factory distributor is. So maybe with the pump drive gear slot pointed at the first left intake bolt and the engine is at tdc, the rotor points at no 1 tower on the cap with the stock distributor.
Say you pulled the stock distributor out without turning the motor and put your aftermarket distributor in and due to the shaft being indexed differently the rotor now points to no 8 on the tower and you have to make no 8 now no 1. Is the distributor you replaced the broken with a different brand and also not a factory one?
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That's EXACTLY right and would have been found by now if he'd just verify TDC.
 
Starting from the top. Perhaps it died due to msd and not a loose cap,ever think about that?
Loose cap was just happenstance.
 
67dodgedartconv said:
Seems like I read somewhere that not all aftermarket distributors are indexed like a factory distributor is. So maybe with the pump drive gear slot pointed at the first left intake bolt and the engine is at tdc, the rotor points at no 1 tower on the cap with the stock distributor.
Say you pulled the stock distributor out without turning the motor and put your aftermarket distributor in and due to the shaft being indexed differently the rotor now points to no 8 on the tower and you have to make no 8 now no 1. Is the distributor you replaced the broken with a different brand and also not a factory one?
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Yes that is exactly right I have set the intermediate shaft to several different places to line up number one where I want it
 
It’s hard to blame it on the box Because once I set the timing up it starts very good and runs pretty good. But that’s the only thing I haven’t tried to replace. So I am trying to find a wiring diagram to bypass the MSD box and use the coil driver that came with the kit. But all the wiring diagrams I find show it hooked up in A timing control situation Being triggered by the sniper I haven’t found one where it is being triggered by the distributor yet
 
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