Percolation? Heat soak? Don't drive during summer??

[yellow rose]

That's the term he used to describe it to us that's on par with his understanding. We all know what he's talkin about so so stop bein you for five minutes and give him a break. dummy

I did. I just had to go back and *THINK* about what he was describing. I hadn’t consider the green wire was grounding and triggering the coil to fire.


BTW, depending on when it went to ground, and where in the firing order it is, you could have a MASSIVE, muffler shredding BOOOOOOOOOM.

 

[ChargedDart75]

I seem to remember somebody talking about fan depth in the shroud. It makes sense to me that you would want the fan covered by the shroud and closer to the radiator (maybe an inch or so off). It's just like not having a shroud, it's not as effective if the fan is unshrouded.

 

[j par]

Good God man. The second my car won't idle in a garage without overheating is the day I get into something outlandish, maybe something like snowmobiling ?

 

[yellow rose]

Bahahaha.. LOL that's a good one...
I have him on ignore he thinks I go around quoting him or something LOL...

And yet, you can’t pass up the opportunity to run your mouth and derail a thread.

 

[ChargedDart75]

View attachment 1715600323

Looks like a ton of fun.

 

[j par]

Looks like a ton of fun.

Let's just imagine if your car had 160+ horsepower direct support injected 2-stroke power.. per 500 lb....!!!???...
(3000lb car ÷ 500lb's = 6 × 160hp = 960hp).. = YEEHAW!!!!...

 

[Phreakish]

I seem to remember somebody talking about fan depth in the shroud. It makes sense to me that you would want the fan covered by the shroud and closer to the radiator (maybe an inch or so off). It's just like not having a shroud, it's not as effective if the fan is unshrouded.

I've read conflicting suggestions which make sense from different angles. I think it depends more on the design of the fan.
A spinning fan blade is going to effectively 'throw' air down the length of the blade as it turns, due to the viscosity of air. This is similar to the annular discharge of a turbo compressor (but a lesser effect, obviously). With a fan that has no curve or 'winglets' at the tip of the blades, the air can definitely do this - different tip designs will mitigate this to different degrees (notice most electric fans have swept blades). This can help increase fan flow though, especially at lower fan speeds. Especially since the engine is right behind the fan and blocks airflow to an extent.
A fan completely buried in a shroud could be slightly less effective because of turbulence able to get behind the blades - but it would depend on the design of the shroud. If it was a simple barrel shaped shroud with no 'collector' over the core area, then it should probably be as close to the rad as possible. But with the type that covers the core area, having the fan protrude too far into that common space could cause the tip turbulence to reduce flow behind the blades and reduce flow potential.
A shroud should also fit very tight to the tips of the blades - ducted fan research has proven this and shows substantial gains with a reduction of tip clearance. The challenge is ensuring the engine doesn't move too much and eat the shroud!
In all cases, higher fan speed will help cooling. This is where @yellow rose's talk about overdriving the water pump always makes a lot of sense to me... at least in theory ;)

One of these days I'll get around to swapping in my probe fans - then I can be as cool as @j par

 

[j par]

I've read conflicting suggestions which make sense from different angles. I think it depends more on the design of the fan.
A spinning fan blade is going to effectively 'throw' air down the length of the blade as it turns, due to the viscosity of air. This is similar to the annular discharge of a turbo compressor (but a lesser effect, obviously). With a fan that has no curve or 'winglets' at the tip of the blades, the air can definitely do this - different tip designs will mitigate this to different degrees (notice most electric fans have swept blades). This can help increase fan flow though, especially at lower fan speeds. Especially since the engine is right behind the fan and blocks airflow to an extent.
A fan completely buried in a shroud could be slightly less effective because of turbulence able to get behind the blades - but it would depend on the design of the shroud. If it was a simple barrel shaped shroud with no 'collector' over the core area, then it should probably be as close to the rad as possible. But with the type that covers the core area, having the fan protrude too far into that common space could cause the tip turbulence to reduce flow behind the blades and reduce flow potential.
A shroud should also fit very tight to the tips of the blades - ducted fan research has proven this and shows substantial gains with a reduction of tip clearance. The challenge is ensuring the engine doesn't move too much and eat the shroud!
In all cases, higher fan speed will help cooling. This is where @yellow rose's talk about overdriving the water pump always makes a lot of sense to me... at least in theory ;)

One of these days I'll get around to swapping in my probe fans - then I can be as cool as @j par

Sorry one more disagree you can never be as cool as J par... Even if you bought out jags and Summit of all their fans....

 

[Phreakish]

Sorry one more disagree you can never be as cool as J par... Even if you bought out jags and Summit of all their fans....

You're right, I wouldn't want to backtrack so far on my coolness

 

[j par]

You're right, I wouldn't want to backtrack so far on my coolness

There's nowhere to go but forward for you... Your coolness has no room to backtrack, as a matter of fact you're going to have to move out of your garage to cool down LOL...

 

[j par]

And yet, you can’t pass up the opportunity to run your mouth and derail a thread.

Oops I go and open up the Gap in the thread and it's somebody that doesn't realize one of the last things the Op was talking about was derailing threads and snowmobiling LOL... just imagine his surprise when he finally opens up this thread again and it's gone four pages of arguing over whether it's hotter in the garage or out of the garage to run your car...
How about we agree not to quote each other.. you can go ahead and get the last word and call me a name behind my back and I won't respond that way you seem better than me... Can't you see that it would be a beautiful thing....

 

[Phreakish]

... you're going to have to move out of your garage to cool down LOL...

Nah, now I just open both ends of the barn - so much airflow. So, so cool.

 

[j par]

Nah, now I just open both ends of the barn - so much airflow. So, so cool.

Leaving your barn door open is too much information for me... We don't know each other that well...lol..

 

[ChargedDart75]

Let's just imagine if your car had 160+ horsepower direct support injected 2-stroke power.. per 500 lb....!!!???...
(3000lb car ÷ 500lb's = 6 × 160hp = 960hp).. = YEEHAW!!!!...

Imagine a minibike with that power to weight ratio lol

 

[j par]

Imagine a minibike with that power to weight ratio lol

No way! LOL my mini bike now with 8 inch wheels and a 6 horsepower Briggs & Stratton with the correct gering already scares the crap out of me... Actually I got even a bigger Jack shaft sprocket yesterday from eBay the slow it down even more. I'm hoping for a little more torque and I can crack a wheelie with just a blip of the throttle... If it flips and throws me on my back I'm selling it LOL...

 

[ChargedDart75]

No, that just means it's ready for wheelie bars. lol

 

[DentalDart]

So the topic is heat soak, and we are talking about ignition components, and fuel return lines. Lol

The best thing that could ever happen to this car would be to bring it back to box stock.

All the add on debauchery is the reason this car doesn't run right.

You do not need a fuel return line. You need to look at your cooling system.

Have you ever checked your radiator ?
Is it clean and flowing properly ?
Do you have the correct water pump for an AC car with the correct AC water pump pulley ?
Do you know the water pump is functioning properly ?
Do you have the correct fan, fan spacing ?
Do you have a fan shroud ?
Timing set properly ? 12-34 for your mild engine.
Water passages in the block flowing properly ?
Thermostat ?..In Vegas, run a 160.
These are things you should be looking at for your car running hot. These cars from the factory, box stock, use to run through the hot deserts at full tilt boogie without a hiccup.

Radiator is brand new cold case radiator, fan and clutch are brand new, transmission cooler is brand new, WP is brand new, spacing is correct between the fan and the rad. Timing is set correctly (was done by a FABO member, he hangs out in the racers forum though.) I cleaned the water passages as much as I could when we did the cam swap and pulled the heads off. I think I have a 180 or 190 thermostat, the 160 might be the way to go.

 

[j par]

Radiator is brand new cold case radiator, fan and clutch are brand new, transmission cooler is brand new, WP is brand new, spacing is correct between the fan and the rad. Timing is set correctly (was done by a FABO member, he hangs out in the racers forum though.) I cleaned the water passages as much as I could when we did the cam swap and pulled the heads off. I think I have a 180 or 190 thermostat, the 160 might be the way to go.

If Tony set the timing you're good to go. I was suspicious of that but now I'm not..

 

[yellow rose]

Radiator is brand new cold case radiator, fan and clutch are brand new, transmission cooler is brand new, WP is brand new, spacing is correct between the fan and the rad. Timing is set correctly (was done by a FABO member, he hangs out in the racers forum though.) I cleaned the water passages as much as I could when we did the cam swap and pulled the heads off. I think I have a 180 or 190 thermostat, the 160 might be the way to go.

The 160 won’t help. It sets the minimum temp before the thermostat opens.

Max temperature is controlled by coolant flow, air flow, air temperature and probably 1 or 2 things I’m forgetting.

I’m all for a 160 thermostat. Just not for the reason you want it.

 

[Johnny Dart]

Radiator is brand new cold case radiator, fan and clutch are brand new, transmission cooler is brand new, WP is brand new, spacing is correct between the fan and the rad. Timing is set correctly (was done by a FABO member, he hangs out in the racers forum though.) I cleaned the water passages as much as I could when we did the cam swap and pulled the heads off. I think I have a 180 or 190 thermostat, the 160 might be the way to go.

What fan clutch are you running ?
I might be inclined to try a fixed fan and see if it helps.
Vegas summers are brutal, it might just be the car has met its match.

 

[RustyRatRod]

You're right, I wouldn't want to backtrack so far on my coolness

I know that's right. Backing up to the stone age

 

[DentalDart]

Sorry i just finiahed with my patients for the morning and then read all of the party that I missed lol.

I'm also sorry if anyone is getting upset in the thread, and hopefully it starts to cool down in here. (See the pun there )

As some suggested with my car getting hotter in the garage while I dont want it to happen unfortunately it did. Ive gone through the cooling system as much as i can, the only thing that could be suspect is the block itself. There was some gunk built up in the cooling passages (correct term?) In the block, I got out what I could when we took the engine apart though.

My garage was also gets blazing hot when I run the car in it, even with the garage open. The other day there was probably a 15-20 degree swing between the garage and outside temp. I kept stepping outside the garage to actually cool off and get some air flow... and its 100* outside...

 

[DentalDart]

What fan clutch are you running ?
I might be inclined to try a fixed fan and see if it helps.
Vegas summers are brutal, it might just be the car has met its match.

I have the 7 blade metal stock replacement fan, I can't think of the part # right now but its one that was suggested on FABO. My clutch is just the stock replacement can clutch from Oreilys... nothing fancy.

I have a fan shroud... but the fan shroud is kind of sucky... It was one of the first things I got, but didn't realize that I actually needed an offset fan shroud for my engine (340 engine), so the shroud definitely has some openings at the top and the bottom of it.

I'll drain the radiator, replace the thermostat with a 180 (just in case) and add more coolant...

Vegas summers are Brutal, 100 degrees today and this summer we have actually been having record Temps. So many days of 110-120 degrees outside.

 

[Phreakish]

Sorry i just finiahed with my patients for the morning and then read all of the party that I missed lol.

I'm also sorry if anyone is getting upset in the thread, and hopefully it starts to cool down in here. (See the pun there )

As some suggested with my car getting hotter in the garage while I dont want it to happen unfortunately it did. Ive gone through the cooling system as much as i can, the only thing that could be suspect is the block itself. There was some gunk built up in the cooling passages (correct term?) In the block, I got out what I could when we took the engine apart though.

My garage was also gets blazing hot when I run the car in it, even with the garage open. The other day there was probably a 15-20 degree swing between the garage and outside temp. I kept stepping outside the garage to actually cool off and get some air flow... and its 100* outside...

Your cooling system is likely OK - a shorted coil negative will stop an engine in it's tracks, and a spotty short can act like what you were experiencing. Hotter temps can soften wire insulation and cause the short to come and go with heat/cool. The fact that your ignition was firing a buzzing spark is the evidence that the short was likely not a good solid direct short to ground.

The thermostat will only control the min temp, as YR said. It won't stop an engine from going over. A lower temp thermostat in some cases CAN lower the operating range a bit, but not because it's a lower temp thermostat - it's because the higher temp one sucks (doesn't fully open at the rated temp, but only partially - can make a 195 stat run an engine at 200~205).

An engine with an iron block and iron heads with at least an 8 psi rad cap is going to be OK until it starts to go beyond 230 degrees. It will begin to lose performance long before that, but it's unlikely to experience damage in that range. Idling at 220 is not comfortable, but not major cause for concern unless it happens every time you hit a stoplight.

Typical rule of thumb is that if it gets hot at idle, but not when moving then it's either water pump or fan. If it's outside and hot at idle, pop open your hood. If temps drop, it's most likely the fan/shroud or combo. Electric fans will move a LOT more air at idle than any crank-driven system could, but you'll want at least a little bit more electrical experience before taking on that project. I'd still do your A/C before the cooling system. If it gets hot with the A/C on at over 20mph, then the cooling system will likely need upgrades (and the A/C won't work as good if it gets hot, so it'll be easier to convince the wife!).

Looking forward to hearing if she stays running on the next trip.

 

[DentalDart]

The 160 won’t help. It sets the minimum temp before the thermostat opens.

Max temperature is controlled by coolant flow, air flow, air temperature and probably 1 or 2 things I’m forgetting.

I’m all for a 160 thermostat. Just not for the reason you want it.

Ok, well I dont mind changing the thermostat, it wouldn't hurt it to try if I needed to do it. I can buy some and see what happens.

Here's some pictures of my cooling system... when I started changing the cooling system parts it looked as if the cooling system had never been changed, it was nasty...

The radiator is "brand new" but it was actually damaged when it was sent to another member here. Cold case couldn't take it back, so the member gave it to me and I gave my stock radiator to another member on FABO so they could get their car up and running.