Proform 850 dialing it in closer

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I was talking with a guy I had done some heads for and supplied a cam to at the track one day.
He had been messing with his newly acquired LM-1....... dialing the numbers in..... to where he was really liking what he saw.

The main issue he was having was...... the car kept getting slower and slower.

I told him to just take it out of the car and tune for performance.
Then, put it back in to see where you’re at...... after you have it going good.
Car went quickest with the O2 reading high 11’s/low 12’s......... not the mid-hi 13’s he was shooting for.
 
It's tough when you have a new tool to play with!
laugh2-gif.gif

I agree with the mantra - Tune for Performance.
Lemme look how many times I've posted that recently...
Wideband UEGO Air/Fuel Sensor
Setup for 750DP on this 408
How to read carb calibration chart?

and this post too.
100 cfm more with anular and downleg boosters can't beat AFR

That said, IMO for Cudafever logging the AFR is useful to see the impact of changes.
I think it would be good to see if;
the AFR on primaries alone is about the same as when running on all four barrels.
the AFR at WOT and load could be made flatter.

Those are useful things to know when making decisions. For example, knowing the first will guide whether to change all four jets or just one pair.
 
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I paired up my 2 barrel run, up with all my 4 barrel runs............Most 2nt and 3d gear run, the 2 barrel o2 was just slightly leaner all the way thru.
however there was a couple that mix above and below the line of the 2 barrel graph.
so that was my gut feeling was to drop one jet size up front and 2 in the back.

when and look up what the jetting came standard on this carb and it was 76 up front and 84 in the back (76/84).
I'm at 70/80 before i took all of this Data...haven't changed them yet.

mderoy340 said:
I always get the main jetting mph correct first and then tune pump cam and nozzles to best 60' times. A good starting point for accelerator pump nozzles for you would be 33 front and rear, orange #2 front/orange #1 rear. If you are launching at 2K rpm for example, use #2 hole up front so you save more pump shot for WOT at launch. With so many different combos it is a long process to get the best setup and I rely on 60' instead butt dyno.
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Sqirters, 33/33 both, cams are red and in the first hole or position.
 
@Mattax
Mattax said:
I had some problems like this with my LM2. Lemme see if I can look back and jog my memory on the issue.

Oh yes! I do remember. Innovate said it was power supply related. My conclusion was that they were probably right, it was their power plug's internals.
View attachment 1715556030

Minimal wire contact (not run throughholes) and looked cold to me.
View attachment 1715556034

Desoldered and resoldered these connections.
View attachment 1715556035
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You hit it right on the head...........Don't know if it is the answer but, it sure was a problem.
it was still attached when i separated the two pieces but as i was removing the ground strap, the soldered wire fell off.
IMG_0221.jpg

I suck at soldering but sucked less this time:D

IMG_0222.jpg
 
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Got a race this week end.
will see if it holds up...................
fingers crossed.
Don't know if i have time to get the tps hooked up. got to get the track ready and were down a man.
Wife going camping with out me.........but still have to get the brakes fix on the wheeler and prep the camper.......sure would be nice to have that data.................but if the o2 don't work.......the rest don't matter.
time will tell
 
Wellllll TPS works good...........o2 meter.....not so much. so much for the solider trick.
It didn't mess up near as bad or quick until i install my exhause extensions, or lengthened them. think i will pull them back off when i get to the track.
The only reason i put them on was to be able to read launch o2's and they need to be longer for that.......................
only full throttle reading.
If the remove or the exhaust extension fix the o2 screen lock up, then it just to close to the header aka heat issues . If it make no different.....well then i'm still looking for the reason why.
While let you know what my finding out tomorrow night.
 
My friend who runs in Stock had an LM1 in the car for a while.
That thing would lock up all the time.

He wasn’t using it for any data logging...... primarily just a visual check in high gear.
Didn’t work 1/2 the time.

Replaced it with an Autometer gauge...... which has never locked up.

We had an LM1 for the dyno...... same thing.
If the reading got down into the low 11’s, it would lock up.
Replaced it with a Daytona Sensors unit...... never locks up.

Supposedly the LM2’s have less of an issue with it.

While the LM1 was on the dyno, I bought myself a FAST 2 channel unit because I got tired of hassling with the locked up LM1.
I haven’t used it on too many motors, but it has never locked up on me.

It has a record feature, which I would use during a pull. Then you could replay it over again afterward to see what was going on.
 
I have had this unit for 3 or for years now. Give-up on it........fight with it.....give up........now trying to figure it out again.
When @Mattax showed the bad soldier job on his socket and i found similar problem i was a little excited(fighting it for so long didn't get my hopes up to much.)but was still disappointing.
Mine is the LM2
My last attempt on this thing is going to be a ign switched relay, right off the battery.......If that don't fix it........its not a power problem.......at least not on my side of things.
neg side of THE LM2 is attached directly to the battery. Yes cigarette lighter is grounded at the battery!

I took some recording from the race yesterday, but haven't down loaded them yet.
all i know is that every time i look down at the meter after a run......Frozen!!! My tsp was always reading when i looked at the screen.
I will get into that story later, if i find any valuable data..........................
 
Cudafever said:
I have had this unit for 3 or for years now. Give-up on it........fight with it.....give up........now trying to figure it out again.
When @Mattax showed the bad soldier job on his socket and i found similar problem i was a little excited(fighting it for so long didn't get my hopes up to much.)but was still disappointing.
Mine is the LM2
My last attempt on this thing is going to be a ign switched relay, right off the battery.......If that don't fix it........its not a power problem.......at least not on my side of things.
neg side of THE LM2 is attached directly to the battery. Yes cigarette lighter is grounded at the battery!

I took some recording from the race yesterday, but haven't down loaded them yet.
all i know is that every time i look down at the meter after a run......Frozen!!! My tsp was always reading when i looked at the screen.
I will get into that story later, if i find any valuable data..........................
Click to expand...


You’re going to have enough time and effort in that deal (and maybe money because it isn’t cheap to go to the track and then have something fail) that you can buy a real data logger and log anything you want.

You may not think that fuel pressure, MAP and any other things are not important, but you can learn from them.
 
I would love to have a REAL data logger.

I decided this race i was going to just race. push recording button before every run and just race.
And read all the data logs at home the next day.........
first two run couldn't get it to record.......Missing memory chip:BangHead:
Install chip and record next run....... put it in my computer.....corrupt, cant read........Install new memory card and make another run. come back and read it, it works, save to computer. Install back in LM2 and just hit record after each run and stop before shutting of eng.
did this the rest of the day.
only date i got was the one i saved and there was only rpm and tps reading....... Fng p.o.s

I think i'm going to take a sledge hammer to this p.o.s and MAIL IT BACK TO THEM!!!!!!
na not really, but it sure make me feel that way.

As far as the race went, out in the semi finals. hard to win when you eat a hole peanut butter and jelly sanmich before reacting to the light .178 reaction time to his .048. dialed a 7.91 and ran a 7.909 No excuses.....That's racing!!!!!:D
High 8s to low 9 thousand foot adj Elevation today. no one making record runs today.
 
As frustrating as it is, it might be worth starting an email correspondence with them. After a couple rounds they might give you an RMA number so they can look at it.

One person who really knows the Innovate stuff and is good at troubleshooting them is YR's friend 'Tuner'. I don't know if he's active on any forums at the moment.

FWIW the firmware in my LM2 is 1.18,
I'm using LM Programmer 4.08, and Logworks 3.3.7
 
Updating the software should probably be my first step. did this 2 or 3 years ago before i gave up the first time.
Probably should start there.
 
It's possible. Let me look in the folder. OK. Maybe. See version 1.14 fix in bold
As far as firmware version 1.18 - who knows?
Version 1.18 4/14/2016 has no revision explanation. :BangHead:

Firmware 1.17 is needed to run the LSU 4.9 WBO2. Guessing it was release 2015-2016 time frame.

And here's cut and paste snip from the earlier release notes:

LM-2 Frimware 1.15 Release Notes
2/1/12
New display drivers
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1/17/11
Bug Fixes:
* Fixed bug that would hang the unit at the "Innovate Motorsports" boot screen when powered up through USB.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

LM-2 Frimware 1.14 Release Notes
8/17/10

Bug Fixes:

* Added support for slower SD cards
* Added extended D32 file format support
* 16 Volt support
* Extended CAN fixes and OBD-II fuel bank bug fix
* Fixed bug in Analog Output 2 causing narrow band simulation output.
* RPM auto-gain filter
* Intermittent AFR lockup bug fix
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
My LM2 came with both o2 cables in the box and you just had to go in to the programming and choose which o2 sensor to use.
I'm running the 4.9
didn't have a change to check out all the software update levels yeasterday
Mattax said:
As frustrating as it is, it might be worth starting an email correspondence with them. After a couple rounds they might give you an RMA number so they can look at it.

One person who really knows the Innovate stuff and is good at troubleshooting them is YR's friend 'Tuner'. I don't know if he's active on any forums at the moment.

FWIW the firmware in my LM2 is 1.18,
I'm using LM Programmer 4.08, and Logworks 3.3.7
Click to expand...

My LM2 was and still is at 1.18,
LMLProgrammer was 4.08 and is now 4.09,
Logworks was 3.3.7 and is 3.3.8.
In other words the the LM2 is what is reading/controlling the o2 reading and there is no update software........... I did hit the re-calibrate button so i will have to calibrate my o2 before i continue.
Will start a conversation with Innovate and see if there is any thing else i can do.

I know the rest of you are waiting for me to just keep leaning it out until the mph drops......and i will.......but i want to get tuning these idle and high speed jets and there inner Circuits. need this thing working to start learning all of that. and is what this thread is about.

So i need to get this LM2 figured out before i can move on.
 
I've got an AEM wide band in my car. Aside from replacing the sensor once, it has worked flawless for 10 years.
 
Just started the e-mail conversation With Innovate.
The first one was a long one, explaining all my problems and what sensor i have and what they were doing exc..............No response. 2nt e-mail i just explained about the o2 locking up.
communication has just started...........will see were it takes me..........................

I bought the LM2 because it had a o2 sensor and i can data log with it.
Time will tell if a true answer/fix develops.........................
 
Well conversation with Innovate is going well.
They have asked a lot of questions and i have been answering them(instead of me giving them all of my answer at once) has been working out well but no solutions yet.
They be-leave its a interference of some sort.
Everything that they have asked me, i have already tried or it was a non issue.
The last e mail,....... they are having me try something..........I'm a little excited that it just might work.........
I will get into more details if it does.

Hope i get time to test it out today/tomorrow.
 
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Well i'm frustrated for many reasons, Today.

The last fix on my Innovate was a fail, they don't have any more suggestions:(

I just sold my house and have to be out in 16 days:(
Loosing my 3 car, "double deep" for a small 2 car garage:(
Garage is going into storage.........Cuda is homeless at the moment. Probably be living at the neighbors until we can get all the boxes out of the garage of our new house...........New neighbors are not going to like my noise car:)
No time to try and figure out my o2 meter.
Just got my flow bench head adapter finished and made some noise with it last night...........New house don't have 220 in the garage.:(
IMG_0254.jpg

And the MOST frustrating thing of All................Moving day is RACE DAY!!!!:wtf::BangHead:
The plus side?!??.! I'm leaving -35 below winters..............
The bad side........leaving "hot to me" 89* summers to now will be 100* summers..................

Just had to vent this this morning.........Grump.......off.
 
Sorry for the derailment.......

Wow...... still pretty high up there.

What will be the nearest track?
 
Get an RMA from Innovate and have them look at it? Cost of postage? Wish you were closer we could just swap units and see if the problem goes away or not.
Actually there's an idea. Find a friend you can swap units with at the track - even if that has to wait until you're in UTah
 
PRH said:
Sorry for the derailment.......

Wow...... still pretty high up there.

What will be the nearest track?
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No Derailment.
If any one was, it was me being a grump!:)
High? it 2000 feet lower:D actually i haven't checked what the elevation is there.
However Hypoxia is still the closes track.
And I will still be helping with what ever improvement that goes on at Hypoxia, anyways. It will just take me a little over a Hour 1-1/2 to get there instead of 5 minutes.
So, me and my car, while still be grasping:eek: for breath at 6600 feet.:D

I calibrated my bench and threw my head adapter on. Threw my "EPOXY" Ported head on the bench and did a test run.
loud, screeching, and crashed above .300 lift. At 600 lift it gave me back 20 cfm.
Figured out that my head adapter bore was not center on the combustion chamber!
Called my machinist friend to explain the problem....... He said, how can that be, I centered it exactly center on the bolt pattern(It uses two dowels and two factory head bolts to clamp the head to the fixture) flip the head over and for the first time in my life.....I notice that the bolt pattern is NOT centered over the bore:wtf: so now he is going to have to re do the hole top plate. Just for reference, it shifted the bore/cyl 1/4" to 3/8" off center.
Just goes to show how much smooth entry(Pressure recovery)has to do with the hole port.
It crashed at 223 cfm and only made 231 at 600 lift. With my original bench and flow adapter it flowed 271 at .550 lift.

This is a grate example as to why you have to do a bore notch, if your using a large intake valve in the small 273 bore eng.
So back to packing up my garage waiting on a updated fixture.
 
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