Proform 850 dialing it in closer

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Mattax said:
Get an RMA from Innovate and have them look at it? Cost of postage? Wish you were closer we could just swap units and see if the problem goes away or not.
Actually there's an idea. Find a friend you can swap units with at the track - even if that has to wait until you're in UTah
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I don't know any one that has one of these LM-2
RMA?????
Sound good. how do i go about doing this(sending it back for testing?)

They really thing it is radio/noise interference causing me my problems and said that i may need to put a filter on it.
filter????? on.....where? Tach? Every thing else? I asked were i could get one of these filters or if it was something i made...........No response.
so i sent another one, asking if they had any more suggestions...............still nothing.
 
Cudafever said:
I don't know any one that has one of these LM-2
RMA?????
Sound good. how do i go about doing this(sending it back for testing?)

They really thing it is radio/noise interference causing me my problems and said that i may need to put a filter on it.
filter????? on.....where? Tach? Every thing else? I asked were i could get one of these filters or if it was something i made...........No response.
so i sent another one, asking if they had any more suggestions...............still nothing.
Click to expand...
RMA is something like Return Mail Authorization.
Since they can't figure it out, ask.tell them the next logical thing is for them to check it internally.

Radio noise. Ugh - Not my area of knowledge. OK - maybe. What is on the car that could create electronic noise and/or noisy electic voltage?
Alternator,
Voltage Regulator,
Electric fuel pump.
Anything else?

As far as the radio type noise, do any of these have wires that come near or run along the wiring for the LM2 ?

There's ways to shield and minimize radio interference, and capacitors can be placed in lines to reduce noise in the lines.

I'm a little dubious because I would think the WBO2 would show noise but would still record. IIRC you said it just stops recording the WBO2 but the other channels keep working like normal. Yes?

There are some guys on this board who know a lot more about radio noise.
 
Check to make sure you don’t have a plug wire in the cap arcing to the windshield wiper motor bolt. I had bad radio noise for about a year and tried filters, wiring directly to the battery and everything else. Since I didn’t listen to the radio much I just left it turned off. One day while setting timing I turned the garage lights off to see the marks better. Happened to look towards the windshield and saw the arc. Repositioned the distributor and replaced the boot and all is well. The arcing didn’t effect the running of the car and if I hadn’t turned off the lights I would have never known.
 
Mattax said:
RMA is something like Return Mail Authorization.
Since they can't figure it out, ask.tell them the next logical thing is for them to check it internally.

Radio noise. Ugh - Not my area of knowledge. OK - maybe. What is on the car that could create electronic noise and/or noisy electic voltage?
He said I would first suspect some electrical noise may be the issue.
Assuming they are the same thing.( radio noise, electrical noise)
As far as the radio type noise, do any of these have wires that come near or run along the wiring for the LM2 ?
As far as the o2 wires, no.
as far as the rest. yes were they go threw the fire wall rubber grommet

There's ways to shield and minimize radio interference, and capacitors can be placed in lines to reduce noise in the lines.
Will Capacitors affect the signal.....like for the tach????

The first thing i had to do, years ago was to install a 10 turn poteniomiter in line with the tach wire from the coil to get it to.

I gave them the ign wire part number and the spark plugs i was using and they never came back and said they were a problem.........

I'm a little dubious because I would think the WBO2 would show noise but would still record. IIRC you said it just stops recording the WBO2 but the other channels keep working like normal. Yes?
When i hit the rev limiter the tach locks up for a half a sec but i think thats normal.
When they had me separator the the tach ground for the LM2, form all the othere ground it fix the intermittent problem with my tps.

nothing in 3 years have fix the o2 from freezing up.

There are some guys on this board who know a lot more about radio noise.
Click to expand...

Expand to read my response
 
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tjpatte said:
Check to make sure you don’t have a plug wire in the cap arcing to the windshield wiper motor bolt. I had bad radio noise for about a year and tried filters, wiring directly to the battery and everything else. Since I didn’t listen to the radio much I just left it turned off. One day while setting timing I turned the garage lights off to see the marks better. Happened to look towards the windshield and saw the arc. Repositioned the distributor and replaced the boot and all is well. The arcing didn’t effect the running of the car and if I hadn’t turned off the lights I would have never known.
Click to expand...

This is a Vary good idea and will try it to night!:thumbsup:
 
I would run dedicated new separate +/- leads that are attached directly to the battery, with a noise filter like what would be used for a car stereo in the line.
 
tjpatte said:
Check to make sure you don’t have a plug wire in the cap arcing to the windshield wiper motor bolt. I had bad radio noise for about a year and tried filters, wiring directly to the battery and everything else. Since I didn’t listen to the radio much I just left it turned off. One day while setting timing I turned the garage lights off to see the marks better. Happened to look towards the windshield and saw the arc. Repositioned the distributor and replaced the boot and all is well. The arcing didn’t effect the running of the car and if I hadn’t turned off the lights I would have never known.
Click to expand...
It can be tight there.
I don't know how much it helped but an old trick I used was placing a short section of fuel hole over the sprak plug wire nearest the wiper motor. Maybe four inches long and cut lengthtwise so it could be be slipped over the wire.

I do not know enough about the relationship between electrical noise and electromagnetic interference to suggest quick ways to tell them apart.
I assume the first would show up on an oscilliscope.
Both @KitCarlson and @halifaxhops may have some perspectives on this.
 
Mattax said:
It can be tight there.
I don't know how much it helped but an old trick I used was placing a short section of fuel hole over the sprak plug wire nearest the wiper motor. Maybe four inches long and cut lengthtwise so it could be be slipped over the wire.

I do not know enough about the relationship between electrical noise and electromagnetic interference to suggest quick ways to tell them apart.
I assume the first would show up on an oscilliscope.
Both @KitCarlson and @halifaxhops may have some perspectives on this.
Click to expand...

It will also show up on a multimeter as AC ripple. Set your multimeter on AC and low range (5V and under). We use to check DC power supplies this way, usually anything .5V and higher would wreck havoc on a computer controlled system.
 
PRH said:
I would run dedicated new separate +/- leads that are attached directly to the battery, with a noise filter like what would be used for a car stereo in the line.
Click to expand...
I had all the neg's hook directly to the Neg post. they suggested to remove the tach ground form the LM2(blue wire) and move it to the eng block. which helped the tps accuracy.
 
tjpatte said:
It will also show up on a multimeter as AC ripple. Set your multimeter on AC and low range (5V and under). We use to check DC power supplies this way, usually anything .5V and higher would wreck havoc on a computer controlled system.
Click to expand...
How would i hook up for this test?
Crossed the battery posts???
 
Cudafever said:
How would i hook up for this test?
Crossed the battery posts???
Click to expand...
I would do it from the power wire by your LM-2 to the closest ground just to be sure. I have a LM-2 also, but found my issue before I hooked it up.
 
tjpatte said:
Check to make sure you don’t have a plug wire in the cap arcing to the windshield wiper motor bolt. I had bad radio noise for about a year and tried filters, wiring directly to the battery and everything else. Since I didn’t listen to the radio much I just left it turned off. One day while setting timing I turned the garage lights off to see the marks better. Happened to look towards the windshield and saw the arc. Repositioned the distributor and replaced the boot and all is well. The arcing didn’t effect the running of the car and if I hadn’t turned off the lights I would have never known.
Click to expand...

Started, warmed up eng and then turned off all the lights in the garage only glow on the hole wiring was a small glow from the cap were i drilled hole in it to see if the rotor was out of faze years ago.
I have done this before, several time on cheep spark plug wires and they glow any where they got close to metal. The eng compartment was in complete darkness. Set there and let my eyes adj to the darkness and nothing except the round hole in the cap.

Thanks tjpatte!
I need to check this off of my list and only took a half hour to do!!!!
 
Cudafever said:
Started, warmed up eng and then turned off all the lights in the garage only glow on the hole wiring was a small glow from the cap were i drilled hole in it to see if the rotor was out of faze years ago.
I have done this before, several time on cheep spark plug wires and they glow any where they got close to metal. The eng compartment was in complete darkness. Set there and let my eyes adj to the darkness and nothing except the round hole in the cap.

Thanks tjpatte!
I need to check this off of my list and only took a half hour to do!!!!
Click to expand...

Well crap, was hoping that would be the problem and easy fix.

Have you tried disconnecting the alternator and running the car? Maybe the diode is shot and allowing the alternator to pass AC?
 
Cudafever said:
I had all the neg's hook directly to the Neg post. they suggested to remove the tach ground form the LM2(blue wire) and move it to the eng block. which helped the tps accuracy.
Click to expand...
H'm. I'll have to read up on the LM2 tach signal when I get a chance.
The LMA3 uses a single wire for picking up a tach signal.
 
tjpatte said:
Well crap, was hoping that would be the problem and easy fix.

Have you tried disconnecting the alternator and running the car? Maybe the diode is shot and allowing the alternator to pass AC?
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No not yet. my gut is telling me that it is the electric fans. The reason i say that is that the more runs i do(hot lapping) the sooner it will lock up each time. Was thinking it was because the o2 is only 10"past the collector..........Maybe it is when the fans turn on???????
Yup going to have to do some process of eliminations.
 
Mattax said:
H'm. I'll have to read up on the LM2 tach signal when I get a chance.
The LMA3 uses a single wire for picking up a tach signal.
Click to expand...
The blue ground wire says "if you can't get a tach signal hook blue wire to ground.

Will have to remove that ground and see if it make any difference.
 
Cudafever said:
The blue ground wire says "if you can't get a tach signal hook blue wire to ground.

Will have to remove that ground and see if it make any difference.
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I see. OK. Its working. I'd leave it alone.
 
Cudafever said:
No not yet. my gut is telling me that it is the electric fans. The reason i say that is that the more runs i do(hot lapping) the sooner it will lock up each time. Was thinking it was because the o2 is only 10"past the collector..........Maybe it is when the fans turn on???????
Yup going to have to do some process of eliminations.
Click to expand...
Since you can hear the interference through the radio I would use that as your test equipment :)

First thing I would do is disconnect the alternator and fans and see if the interference goes away. If it does, start reconnecting things one at a time until it comes back and there’s your problem.

May O2 sensor is about is about 8”’ past the collector, but is have a full exhaust and don’t remember i you do or not.
 
tjpatte said:
Since you can hear the interference through the radio I would use that as your test equipment :)

First thing I would do is disconnect the alternator and fans and see if the interference goes away. If it does, start reconnecting things one at a time until it comes back and there’s your problem.

May O2 sensor is about is about 8”’ past the collector, but is have a full exhaust and don’t remember i you do or not.
Click to expand...

The o2 is 2 inch from open collector so the only accurate reading is at full throttle (with a race car that's all i really care about)
The problem is that my radio is dead, and it only acts up at full throttle. Idle around all day long and it won't freeze up!
 
Cudafever said:
The o2 is 2 inch from open collector so the only accurate reading is at full throttle (with a race car that's all i really care about)
The problem is that my radio is dead, and it only acts up at full throttle. Idle around all day long and it won't freeze up!
Click to expand...

My bad on the radio part, thought you had a working one.

Might still be worth checking it with a multimeter at idle then rev the motor and see what happens. If you see it climbing with the revs there may be a point at where the interference passes the threshold of what the gauge can handle and locks up.
 
Mattax said:
I see. OK. Its working. I'd leave it alone.
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This is what i had to do to get it to read a tach sign
IMG_0258.jpg
 
tjpatte said:
My bad on the radio part, thought you had a working one.

Might still be worth checking it with a multimeter at idle then rev the motor and see what happens. If you see it climbing with the revs there may be a point at where the interference passes the threshold of what the gauge can handle and locks up.
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I have a cheap meter that i tried this directly on the battery (lowest setting/scale was 200 v AC) when i hook it to the battery(with the ign off) it started at like 2 Volts and slowly keep climbing so i stopped.

Just when out and did it again........27.8 AC volts and holding steady pos/neg on the battery post, ign off?????
 
Pulled out my good meter............ .5mV AC:BangHead: guess i better us this one for testing:D
 
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