Rapom's Rocket - just another Duster build thread

[rapom65]

What year is your Duster and what type column is it, floor/column shift, manual or power steering? The pics Young Gun posted look like they're from his '65? Valiant, the columns differ on earlier cars.

 

[rapom65]

Master disconnect switch and panel mounted to the car. Two holes were tapped into the side of the fuel cell cage so it is removable. Now that the major components for the electrical system have all found permanent homes it's time to get to work on the wiring.

 

[rapom65]

This is where I decided to mount my Ford starter relay (top) and the continuous duty relay (bottom). This is were the fold down back seat used to reside. I have plans for additional electronics to be housed here, behind a removable panel, which will hide all this when the interior is completed.

View attachment IMG_2335.jpg

 

[mopar65]

What year is your Duster and what type column is it, floor/column shift, manual or power steering? The pics Young Gun posted look like they're from his '65? Valiant, the columns differ on earlier cars.

mine is a 73 duster/column shift and manual steering. but i have a floor shifter so all the column shifter stuff will be removed. thanks Mopar65

 

[rapom65]

Your column tube should match 72bluNblu's and mine. I would think 2" would be safe if you want to cut the jacket back on your column, but, I don't think you would have to cut the column jacket at all for header clearance. I have TTI's on a 360, blu has TTI's (IIRC) on a 340 which clear the rear header tube with out issue. The tightest clearance point is usually the coupler area. This is a pic of mine with the bearing mod completed with the firewall plate installed.

 

[rapom65]

Just ordered up 1/0 and 4 ga. cables to finish wiring the car for my trunk mounted battery and electrical mods. Spent the last week working on my friends Demon so not much accomplished on the Duster lately. That is going to change very soon.

 

[72bluNblu]

Your column tube should match 72bluNblu's and mine. I would think 2" would be safe if you want to cut the jacket back on your column, but, I don't think you would have to cut the column jacket at all for header clearance. I have TTI's on a 360, blu has TTI's (IIRC) on a 340 which clear the rear header tube with out issue. The tightest clearance point is usually the coupler area. This is a pic of mine with the bearing mod completed with the firewall plate installed.

I actually have Doug's headers on my 340, but it's not a big difference there. You can cut the column jacket back if you want, but it really doesn't buy much space and the clearance isn't needed there. The coupler is the closest to hitting the headers, although even the vibration damped coupler I used is plenty clear.

 

[mopar65]

I actually have Doug's headers on my 340, but it's not a big difference there. You can cut the column jacket back if you want, but it really doesn't buy much space and the clearance isn't needed there. The coupler is the closest to hitting the headers, although even the vibration damped coupler I used is plenty clear.

thanks for the info guys. But i have RB 440 big block and i might get the Clarence i need just by taking out the coulm shifter part.thanks Mopar65

 

[rapom65]

Put the column back in the car and thought you might like an engine compartment shot of the bearing installation.

 

[rapom65]

Also finally got around to installing the solid aluminum Proforged tie rod adjusters. I'm ordering up some poly tie rod boots to replace my split stock rubbers, new Moog upper ball joints and low profile bump stops to finish out the front suspension refurb.
Energy Suspension 9-9121G Bump Stops

http://static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/mediumlarge/ens-9-9121g_ml.jpg

 

[rapom65]

Very little done to the car lately as I've concentrated on finishing up my friends radiator mount, but..., some goodies were delivered by a guy in brown shorts this afternoon. 25' each of red and black 4 ga. and 20' of blue 1/0 cable for the battery relocation and wiring upgrades. I couldn't find 4 ga. copper lugs locally in the bolt sizes I wanted, other than 1/4" from NAPA, so I bought a hand full and drilled them out to the sizes I needed: 5/16" & 3/8". It's game on now to complete the wiring mods.

 

[rmchrgr]

Thanks guys. Although the page views show plenty of interest it has pretty much just been me and the crickets... I thought there would be more questions?

I feel you on this one, I get the same lack of response on my own thread. You go through the effort of taking pics and doing these write ups and then - nothing. Why bother, right? Sometimes I get a comment or two like nice job or something but very little discussion. The hope is that people appreciate it whether they comment or not. No way to justify the effort, I just do it for myself as a document.

But hey, nice job!

I do have one observation though and that is there appears to be a good deal of weight being added to the car with all the fabrication. I don't see this as being a drag-oriented deal so it's probably not terribly relevant but I was just wondering if the extra mass was a concern or not. I am a weight reduction freak so that's what I notice. Do you have any idea what the car weighed before you took it apart? '73-up are generally heavier than the '70-'72 models.

 

[72bluNblu]

I do have one observation though and that is there appears to be a good deal of weight being added to the car with all the fabrication. I don't see this as being a drag-oriented deal so it's probably not terribly relevant but I was just wondering if the extra mass was a concern or not. I am a weight reduction freak so that's what I notice. Do you have any idea what the car weighed before you took it apart? '73-up are generally heavier than the '70-'72 models.

What significant amount of weight? The subframe connectors and radiator support? Those are worth their weight in chassis stiffness. The 4 link is probably lighter than the old leaf springs, not to mention the Fox shocks are lighter than the old ones.

Adding the relays and additional wiring does add some weight, but I wouldn't say its a lot. And removing the rear shock mount bumper probably saved 150lbs. No kidding.

The column modifications don't add any weight, and the new master cylinder weighs half of what the old one does. Same with the aluminum radiator. The hydraulic clutch probably saves weight too vs all the linkage.

I thought about that as well when I was adding subframe connectors, J bars, radiator support brace, torque boxes etc to my car. The chassis stiffening is just plain worth the weight in improved handling. But a lot of the other modifications are actually removing weight, especially since a lot of the modern components are lighter than their original counterparts.

 

[rapom65]

Yeah some times it feels like I'm writing a book that nobody will read, but with 5700 views so far some one is following along. I just though there would be more questions like yours, comments questioning my sanity or methods and perhaps suggestions on different approaches to what I'm doing. It's a bit cathartic to document the work and I enjoy the process so it really wouldn't matter if the page views were zero, I would still do it.

As far as weight is concerned the latter Dusters are definitely more porky than the earlier models. I believe mine started out between 3400-3600 lbs from the factory due to added "safety crap" like door beams, crash bumpers, 50 lbs (exaggeration) of wiring and such for things like seat belt interlocks, fuel evap systems ect., ect., ect... and power steering + brakes.

The car will never be a top contender in any form of racing as my goal is not competition. I want a very good handling, powerful, comfortable and streetable hot rod. One I can drive 2.5 hours to see my friends and go to a car show/event near Seattle and then the next week take down to Portland International and spend a Saturday/Sunday blasting around the road course on a track day or maybe go play at a local autocross. So a lot of compromises have & will take place on the build. An example is the iron cased OD 4 speed. I "could have" opted for the aluminum cased version but they have issues with counter shaft support the iron cased versions don't when higher doses of HP are put thru them.

As far as weight added (sub frame connectors, fuel cell cage, radiator cross bar, heavy gauge wiring, iron 4 speed/Lakewood bell/billet fly wheel, bigger B disks and rear drums) vs what weight has been removed/repositioned (aluminum heads, intake manifold, master cylinder and radiator, headers, bench seat vs light buckets, rear fold down seat, crash bumpers and shocks, battery to trunk) I think it's going to be a wash and I'll still be in the same 3400-3600 lbs when she's done. It could be made lighter by deleting creacher features like power steering/brakes, heater/defroster but that won't increase the enjoyment factor of the car for me. I've done the race car thing on the street for too long now, looking for a more "civilized" ride. So no weight loss or gain in the end but what is there is much better distributed ie. moved off the ends and lower/more centered in the chassis. The chassis is way stiffer and provides a solid base for the suspension upgrades to work with and the added power and braking performance should make for a fun do it all car. It can always be modified for a more focused usage if that should occur in the future.

 

[rmchrgr]

What significant amount of weight? The subframe connectors and radiator support? Those are worth their weight in chassis stiffness. The 4 link is probably lighter than the old leaf springs, not to mention the Fox shocks are lighter than the old ones.

Adding the relays and additional wiring does add some weight, but I wouldn't say its a lot. And removing the rear shock mount bumper probably saved 150lbs. No kidding.

The column modifications don't add any weight, and the new master cylinder weighs half of what the old one does. Same with the aluminum radiator. The hydraulic clutch probably saves weight too vs all the linkage.

I thought about that as well when I was adding subframe connectors, J bars, radiator support brace, torque boxes etc to my car. The chassis stiffening is just plain worth the weight in improved handling. But a lot of the other modifications are actually removing weight, especially since a lot of the modern components are lighter than their original counterparts.

Not saying that he shouldn't have done any of the chassis stiffening things but I look at it with a different eye. Just seems like all the bracing and such could add on the pounds, unwitting or not. To me, that 4 link setup and relocation boxes look to weigh a lot more than the OE stuff with all the extra tubing and bracketry. The factory rad support is stamped steel, the one he fabbed out of tubing has to be significantly heavier than the stamped part and it's over the front of the car. Then there was the square tube cage for the fuel cell. These are just observations, not trying to be critical.

I have frame conneectors on my car as well and if at some point it goes down a track fast enough, it will need a roll bar which means more weight. However, my approach is to reduce weight from my car wherever possible so its something I am keen on. Weight reduction is a balance between strength/reliability vs. lighter parts. When you think along those lines, everything comes under scrutiny as to whether its needed or not and if it is needed, can it be made lighter without sacrificing strength or safety.

 

[rmchrgr]

Yeah some times it feels like I'm writing a book that nobody will read, but with 5700 views so far some one is following along. I just though there would be more questions like yours, comments questioning my sanity or methods and perhaps suggestions on different approaches to what I'm doing. It's a bit cathartic to document the work and I enjoy the process so it really wouldn't matter if the page views were zero, I would still do it.

As far as weight is concerned the latter Dusters are definitely more porky than the earlier models. I believe mine started out between 3400-3600 lbs from the factory due to added "safety crap" like door beams, crash bumpers, 50 lbs (exaggeration) of wiring and such for things like seat belt interlocks, fuel evap systems ect., ect., ect... and power steering + brakes.

The car will never be a top contender in any form of racing as my goal is not competition. I want a very good handling, powerful, comfortable and streetable hot rod. One I can drive 2.5 hours to see my friends and go to a car show/event near Seattle and then the next week take down to Portland International and spend a Saturday/Sunday blasting around the road course on a track day or maybe go play at a local autocross. So a lot of compromises have & will take place on the build. An example is the iron cased OD 4 speed. I "could have" opted for the aluminum cased version but they have issues with counter shaft support the iron cased versions don't when higher doses of HP are put thru them.

As far as weight added (sub frame connectors, fuel cell cage, radiator cross bar, heavy gauge wiring, iron 4 speed/Lakewood bell/billet fly wheel, bigger B disks and rear drums) vs what weigh has been removed/repositioned (aluminum heads, intake manifold, master cylinder and radiator, headers, bench seat vs light buckets, rear fold down seat, crash bumpers and shocks, battery to trunk) I think it's going to be a wash and I'll still be in the same 3400-3600 lbs when she's done. It could be made lighter by deleting creacher features like power steering/brakes, heater/defroster but that won't increase the enjoyment factor of the car for me. I've done the race car thing on the street for too long now, looking for a more "civilized" ride. So no weight loss or gain in the end but what is there is much better distributed ie. moved off the ends and lower/more centered in the chassis. The chassis is way stiffer and provides a solid base for the suspension upgrades to work with and the added power and braking performance should make for a fun do it all car. It can always be modified for a more focused usage if that should occur in the future.

Thanks, that was a perfect answer! :thumbup:

 

[72bluNblu]

Stock leafs weigh 35+ lbs each. That's over 70 lbs for just the springs. I'd wager the tubing needed for the 4 link weighs half that. It is hollow after all. The coilovers are heavier than the stock shocks no doubt, but I bet the whole 4 link system is at the very worst weight neutral.

As for the rad support and other chassis stiffening, you probably lose just as much power/time in chassis flex without it. Everything is a trade off.

 

[rapom65]

I would have to say this 4 link is weight neutral vs a leaf spring suspension. Factor in everything that was removed: U bolts, shock plates, shocks, upper shock bolts, leafs, shackle assys, rear frame mounts, front spring mounts and all the hardware. My 4 link is much stouter = heavier than necessary. I believe RMS uses .75" tubing and rod ends in their Street Lynx, mine is 1.5" + 3/16" plate = total overkill. But hey, it ain't going to break!

Your right to focus on weight reduction for drag racing. Accelerating weight takes time and power so less weight is critically important. I don't think a lighter car will necessarily take a curve that much faster than a properly set up heavier car but "porky" will definitely eat up the brakes and tires at an accelerated rate.

 

[w2 stroker]

Yeah some times it feels like I'm writing a book that nobody will read, but with 5700 views so far some one is following along. I just though there would be more questions like yours, comments questioning my sanity or methods and perhaps suggestions on different approaches to what I'm doing. It's a bit cathartic to document the work and I enjoy the process so it really wouldn't matter if the page views were zero, I would still do it.

As far as weight is concerned the latter Dusters are definitely more porky than the earlier models. I believe mine started out between 3400-3600 lbs from the factory due to added "safety crap" like door beams, crash bumpers, 50 lbs (exaggeration) of wiring and such for things like seat belt interlocks, fuel evap systems ect., ect., ect... and power steering + brakes.

The car will never be a top contender in any form of racing as my goal is not competition. I want a very good handling, powerful, comfortable and streetable hot rod. One I can drive 2.5 hours to see my friends and go to a car show/event near Seattle and then the next week take down to Portland International and spend a Saturday/Sunday blasting around the road course on a track day or maybe go play at a local autocross. So a lot of compromises have & will take place on the build. An example is the iron cased OD 4 speed. I "could have" opted for the aluminum cased version but they have issues with counter shaft support the iron cased versions don't when higher doses of HP are put thru them.

As far as weight added (sub frame connectors, fuel cell cage, radiator cross bar, heavy gauge wiring, iron 4 speed/Lakewood bell/billet fly wheel, bigger B disks and rear drums) vs what weigh has been removed/repositioned (aluminum heads, intake manifold, master cylinder and radiator, headers, bench seat vs light buckets, rear fold down seat, crash bumpers and shocks, battery to trunk) I think it's going to be a wash and I'll still be in the same 3400-3600 lbs when she's done. It could be made lighter by deleting creacher features like power steering/brakes, heater/defroster but that won't increase the enjoyment factor of the car for me. I've done the race car thing on the street for too long now, looking for a more "civilized" ride. So no weight loss or gain in the end but what is there is much better distributed ie. moved off the ends and lower/more centered in the chassis. The chassis is way stiffer and provides a solid base for the suspension upgrades to work with and the added power and braking performance should make for a fun do it all car. It can always be modified for a more focused usage if that should occur in the future.

Ron i follow along diligently. i just save my questions for when i'm at your house drinking your beer or coffee lol

 

[rapom65]

Or stealing my parts or borrowing my tools! *or maybe that's me* So when is the next theft....er, visit? Mike's car is almost done. I think he will like what I did on his radiator. Still working on the charging issue and adjusting the stops on the hood. I hate that tilt setup, looks cool and nice for working on the race cars but not what I would do on my streeter. Don't tell him I said that!

 

[rapom65]

Maybe some of you will remember this box. I was going to hold off on showing you what was in it until work was underway but I feel like exposing myself to ridicule this morning. I wasn't completely sold on the look but since I've had it sitting on the hood for awhile it's probably too late to return it. This might actually elicit a response from the true drinkers of Mother Mopar's Kool-Aid. All opinions are welcome so let me know what you think...

 

[rapom65]

I'm really not a fan of the squared off nose of the Duster's hood and wanted to find something to alter the look of it. My original plan was an AAR bolt on fiberglass six pack hood but at around $1000 to get one, shipped, from Florida to Washington it ain't happenin. I've always liked the subtle cowl induction bulge of the 70 Road Runner but am not a fan of the 4" and taller cowl induction on a Duster. I stumbled across these pics of an Aspen? with a custom hood that I really like. That hood's shape is similar to the Dusters so I thought about finding a Road Runner hood to try my hand at grafting the skin to the Duster. Nothing cheaper than $400 + shipping was found and I realized I don't have the metal working skills or tools needed to pull that off.

View attachment cowl hood 006.jpg

View attachment cowl hood 007.jpg

 

[rapom65]

So I began a search for a low profile, 2" or less, cowl type scoop to graft on. Lots of fiberglass or plastic stuff out there but I wanted metal and it needed to be at least 28" wide and 47" long to "sort of" match the width & length of the Dusters bulge front to back. After a while I found this AMD unit 28"W x 53.75"L x 2.25"H in steel. Best online price I could find was $153 shipped. It took me a long time to decide to buy it hoping I could come up with something different and less polarizing but in the end it's my car and I'm the one who has to pay the $ and live with it. Here are a few different angles of it on the car. I want the curve of the scoop to come off the flat on the nose so it will sit further forward than on the Aspen hood and the rear will have to be trimmed appropriately to clear when the hood is opened. And it will be functional or I wouldn't even bother with it.

I know it kind of looks like a wart on the snout of a pig right now but imagine the hood and cowl area in front of the windshield in black.

 

[rapom65]

Well everybody either likes Chevy cowl hoods on Dusters or no one gives a hoot...

Been exactly 30 days since my last post and it's about time for an update. Seems like everyone I know or love has needed one thing or another done for them lately but now it's time for me to get back to work on the car. I got a couple of days to play in the shop and it has produced some results.

Pic 1: Hung the power steering cooler which will be plumed into the return line between the pump and the steering box with high press rubber hose. Yes, it's big. Beginning to wrap the wiring harness with some neat stretch tape I found at a local hardware store. Looks OE but is way more HD than the stock tape ever hoped to be.

Pic 2: Electrical cables getting roughed in: 1/0 battery cable (blue), 4 ga charging cable (black) and main electrical supply (red). I ended up with 4 ga instead of 6 because I found a supplier who had some cheaper than any of the 6 I was considering.

Pic 3: Routed the wires along the drivers door trough then up behind the kick panel to the top of the firewall. The two 4 ga pass into the engine compartment through a factory hole. The starter cable passes through the clutch linkage hole and is clamped along the frame and pinch weld seam with cushion clamps. The stock rubber boot for the clutch linkage worked perfectly to pass the cable through.

Can't get over how nice that column support bearing mod turned out.

 

[rapom65]

Ignition coil/module/heat sink and relay mounted and wire runs routed.