Slant 6 Turbo 68Dart Project

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Bill Dedman said:
The fitting I threaded into the hole was bigger (by a couple of thousandths) than the hole; no way will it work free.:prayer::prayer::prayer:
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Mine also didn't "fit" so I had to crank on it with a big wrench and it threaded its way in the hole. Coupled with the jb on the threads and all over the outside, it's in there for the long haul. I drove it to woro today, no leaks - which is great. I just have a silly looking tube sticking up now that I'll have to explain if I accidentally open the hood in public. Oh well. That is the price you pay for no day downtime i guess.

Working on assembling the downpipe now. Working out pretty good. Got my sensor bung in it, 5 bolt turbo flange, and then the flex. Mine I want to run kind of parallel to the fender and dive down after, rather than dive down first, then run parallel, if that makes sense. I will be building a 2 1/2" coupled with a 2" collector to 2" which will couple both the wastegate (which I want to use flex for) and the downpipe to be attached to the rest of the system. All of this is not as "scary" as I thought it would be. Seems to be coming naturally to me. lol.
 
Thanks. It's going a lot better than I expected. I have to slow down for a week, to build some money back up to buy more parts. I still have a few things I can install, like the oil feed line, filter sandwich, maybe get a starting point on the wastegate point, etc.

But I do need to get a handle on this ignition thing. There's just too many options. I have the choice between stock (blue, black, etc), MSD, and HEI. Hei being the middle ground. MSD is tempting because I simply like the way it would look better in the engine bay, but HEI is more cost effective for me unless I could find a bunch of used MSD equipment. I don't want to spend too much money into this ignition change setback, but it needs to be done to use this electronic distributor.... UNLESS, I recurved the one i have, and left the pertronix, and limited the governor, and moved the volvo unit to it, but that's not sanity convenient due to me already having a ready to go distributor...
 
Its funny how these things get built. Even if you never seen mine or Bills setup, they all end up looking somewhat identical. Your pan hole is almost identical to mine, although I went cheap and tacked a 3/4 piece of tube into the pan and filled the seam with our old friend JB. Sand and paint, voila. The rule is never to exceed 45 degrees on your drain pipe and never smaller than 1/2 ID. My first hat idea is what you used. I still got the cover hanging on the wall. Have you priced wastgates yet, Jeeez, that are as much as the turbos! have you considered Megasquirt for your ignition only? Run the MSnS firmware and you got yourself a programmable dizzy fired ignition system, just dont use the injectors. Pick an early version 1.0 up for ~100 used. You can still buy the kits. Its a $5 buck silkscreened board with ~$20 worth of components on it. If you can solder a lead (youll learn in about 2 minutes) and follow instructions, you can build one of these. I still got the original ECU chip out of my 1.1
mscircutry.jpg


they got them smaller too, credit card size but I think they are VR sensors, not dizzy.
 
As much as i like soldering (I fixed a few dumpster flat panel Tv's that are now In my house) I'd rather get something a bit more plug and play.

I found a Mallory Hi Fire VII (Part no667), but can't find any information about it. It has a rev limiter setting, and from what I've seen of the more modern boxes, a retard control somehow. But I can't find any info on it. ALl that comes up is the 667c or 667s which both look like completely different units. This one purely says Hi FireVII with no letters after. Would this work, or keep hunting?

EDIT:
Well, I finally found the oldschool Mallory instructions, and the regular 667 is only for V-8s while the 667-6 will work with a 6.
I'm still hunting for one of the add-on able ignitions like this because there is just so much I can do with them to adjust. Boost controllers, rev limiters, etc...
But if it all comes down to it, HEI is just gonna happen...
Also This is where I'm at on the downpipe, I bought a 3" to 2 1/2" reducer for $2.00 to use for the start, even though the exhaust outlet on the turbo is only 2 1/2" because I wanted to be able to angle the pipe from the start, allowing the next piece to be directed away from the fender. It worked well. I shave about a 25 degree angle into it and mounted it. Looks straight - but it's not. I put the sensor bung in a way that it would not stick straight up but at an angle.

http://s43.photobucket.com/user/serj22/media/Turbo 225/IMG_20140904_091851_zps52919883.jpg.html

I cleaned the galvanization off the flex pipe with a sander, and then welded it to the adapter. I felt using a clamp that close to the turbo would look cheesy. It was very difficult to weld the thing tubing, but it worked. I since cut the flex in half as it was way too long, and will do the 45* dive there, and the wastegate pipe should come up and meet it... but still not decided on that whole wastegate pipe... I'm thinking about tying the downpipe to the mount on the J pipe, so that I can support the whole system on one large 1/4" thick steel bracket. This thing is heavy afterall.

http://s43.photobucket.com/user/serj22/media/Turbo 225/IMG_20140904_123905_zps364aaee6.jpg.html

http://s43.photobucket.com/user/serj22/media/Turbo 225/IMG_20140904_124131_zpsbdcee7c5.jpg.html
 
Well, I managed to find an MSD 6al used, and supposedly working for $40/ shipped, so even if it's broke i feel I'll probably be able to source the parts and repair it. This is good because i have my eye on their vortech unit as well, which is supposed to give 3 degrees of control supposedly, but that's in the future. I just wanted the msd or mallory system because it's simple looking and allows me to "add on" if I feel I can fix stuff. We'll see how it goes. Waiting till Friday, then I might make the "big purchase" and get the fuel system and the last of the stuff for about $350, I'd be broke pretty much after bills, but that's only temporary for another week... I think it'd be worth it, since I'm pretty much almost done.

Well, almost done mechanically, tuning is another story. The carb I got was functioning on someone else's turbo slant for a year and a half, so I figure it might be a good baseline, and go from there.

The other thing i need to factor in to finish is a boost gauge, manual boost controller for tuning, and some kind of oil pressure gauge, so that way when I put oil back in the car, I don't have to drain it out again to add a gauge with the new filter sandwich. I want the oil feed line to go on in one drain.
 
Do not run that flex right off the turbo. It will melt. They will not take that kind of heat. At least 4' of pipe before the flex. For bends you should be able to go to any exhaust shop and have them bend some for you or maybee buy some of thier miss bent pipes.
 
Good information. Like I say before I don't claim to know what I'm doing -lol, but thank you. I had a feeling something would be wrong about it being that thin. I was about to take it to my shop today and cut it off, after realizing that the bend I need to make is not as drastic as I thought it would be. It's only a little less than straight. Actually the angle I put in the beginning points it off the fender enough to be safe.

The problem with the 3 exhaust shops I've run to out here, is they do not bend pipe, they have straight pipe, and they buy bends from machinists, and charge you $40 a bend. Online I can get a bend from Jegs or SUmmit for less than $20 shipped, and hack off whatever part I need. The oreillys nearby had a 3' section of 2 1/2" which I should be able to take a small cut out of, and bend slightly. Like I said it doesn't have to be much and I have a simple pipe bender. Then I'd just need a 45* and need to find some 1 1/2" pipe for the wastegate line and make a collector where it 45's back into the system. I think with a 45, some 2 feet of 1 1/2" and 3 feet of 2 1/2" I should be able to meet near the old exhaust for now. I plan on unbolting it from the transmission hanger bracket, and just pulling it over a bit, bolting it down again somehow (maybe elongating the bracket) and having a flange on the end of my custom downpipe to make it easily removed for working on something.
 
Ok, the other flexi is cut off, and I have upgraded from a $6.00 downpipe to a $10 downpipe, which only took two pieces to make. Lucky me it was just not as complicated as I had thought in my mind. It looks kind of like a sculpture/ art almost. Basically, I'm going to unbolt the transmission exhaust hanger, and shove the original exhaust over and it meets up with this - which will be flanged. Custom exhaust can happen later. Right after the turndown is an electric cutout anyway, so I can run it open sounding. Once i have this piece mounted, I also have a 45* super small bend that will attach the wastegate, to the downpipe, and essentially make everything kind of one piece.

I'm debating if it should be one piece for structural reasons, with some 1/4" bar between a few places like the one holding the turbo flange rigid. It would make it so I could bolt the whole pipe in, then mount the turbo exactly where it goes, and then bolt that down, and it will have a little "shelf." Hopefully this makes sense to someone other than myself, but basically this will be a bypassing single part manifold pipe... I think it'd be cool - a true bolt on part.

Then I could fab up a bunch of bracketing over to the block and have plenty of room without the turbocharger in the way.



Try not to laugh at my welds... I'm still learning, also I seem to just build up too much material is all...



 
RustyPlymouth said:
what kind of welder are you using? gas, flux core?
Click to expand...

Flux core. I have been playing with the settings and speed a lot. It seems if I use a thicker wire, and regular speed, the wire smashes into the piece before the arc happens, so the .035 wire looks better, but I have to go slower. I'm actually starting to get it down to a small bead. If I go too slow though, it builds up these giant mounds of metal that I have to sand off.
 
try and do it somewhere that isnt windy at all. the flux builds a cloud. same as a gas welder. if the wire is hitting what you are welding and not starting an arc right away try trimming the end off of the wire. just enough to give you a clean piece. gotta make sure what you are welding is clean too. i like to use a grinder to get down to clean metal and then some brake clean to just be sure it clean. if you are making big puddles then slow down the wire speed. it only needs to be fast enough to maintain an arc. it all takes practice.
 
So far my results seem similar without wind. I think patience is the problem and I am not heating up the metal as I should. I tend to burn through and then get frustrated and it doesn't end well, then I got to cut the pipe and start again. I have a finished pipe now that is super ugly, but super functional. I blasted it and cleared it of any loose slag and burn marks. Looks ok, and will look even better wrapped.

My MSD showed up today. I paid $40/shipped for unknown functionality, and figured it was a gamble. I'll test it tomorrow afternoon, but seller didn't know if it worked or not and it was from an estate buy. For a $330 unit I figure if it needs repair, I'll figure that out. I kind of like the tech inspection window on it too. Wont' see it - but still cool. The harnesses also look nice and will allow an easy disconnect. Assuming this is probably a racing unit, but oh well.

Looks like everything's still in the box to me, and it doesn't look bad, but the test will tell.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e356/serj22/IMG_20140912_172421_zps9b621969.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e356/serj22/IMG_20140912_172435_zps609984ab.jpg

Today I'm also ordering my electric fuel pump, some line, wires, and the regulator, so all that will be left is just the AFR and sensor, and I'm there. The build finish line is in sight....

Edit: Yup $250.88 just spent, netting me the Walbro fuel pump, an FPR, some 1/8" hose to route all the boost referencing, some fuel line, (got a return style regulator), and a 90 degree silicone coupler I needed that will reduce from 2 1/2" to 2" to meet the turbo where I need it to.

There's literally just a $153.00 AFR sensor and gauge sitting in my cart to go... anyone wanna just buy it for me? lol. I just gotta wait another week for that one.
 
Apparently I should have measured 6,000 more times when building my manifold. The lower J pipe clears everything- steering box, etc... and the upper downpipe was meant to sit 1 1/2" beside it so that all was clear. The throttle cable was supposed to run between them, which in retrospect, is just a terrible idea. What I've made is a compact manifold Turbo setup alright, but I did factor and measure it to be sitting parallel with the manifold main log. The mocked up outcome is the turbo pointing slightly to the driver's side. I'm not really sure where I went wrong as I did my initial tacking on the car bolted to the other exhaust manifold, which fit fine.





Orange is junk I was using to try and make a mold of the inner portion there, but it didn't work the way I wanted and was unusable when I took it out.

Anyway, I can use it, but I'd have to turn the two barrel carb 180* from the way I initially wanted which means I have to switch to cable systems, which might be ok as the kickdown ROD was likely going to be in the way eventually... right? At least that's my thinking. Or I scrap the downpipe AGAIN, and have some kind of harsh 90* bend then go down and straight back, which seems awkward. This is doable, just not my original plan at all, and adds more parts to the list (cables) on top of the AFR gauge... I don't know if I want to scrap the manifold and buy $100 more worth of flanges and pipe (don't really want to), or just keep pushing on.... And I really should've done a mockup like this sooner... oh well. :banghead:
 
Serj22 said:
Flux core. I have been playing with the settings and speed a lot. It seems if I use a thicker wire, and regular speed, the wire smashes into the piece before the arc happens, so the .035 wire looks better, but I have to go slower. I'm actually starting to get it down to a small bead. If I go too slow though, it builds up these giant mounds of metal that I have to sand off.
Click to expand...


Check and see if the wires inside the welder are setup for fluc or bottle. if they are reversed and setup for the bottle then you'll always get crappy welds.. when I first got mine it was setup for the bottle and I had to change it (after I read the instructions 2 or 3 times):glasses7:
 
I looked through the welder. I didn't see anything I could alter. I'll have to track down the book and see what it says. I figured I was just really terrible and welding's really hard. lol.

I guess I got upset with the fitment too soon. It is a bit close to the exhaust manifold, but it fit fine, and I'll just have to make some special linkages for stuff. Not too hard at all. Just more time involved. Waiting on a fuel pump block off plate to show up, my electric fuel pump, and regulator and couple other things. My exhaust wrap came yesterday and I tightly wound the manifold I made with about 30 feet of wrap. It looks really good. I'm happy with how it turned out.

Next step is to hopefully drain the oil out, and do all the "messy" stuff - pulling the filter and sandwich adapter on, and pull the fuel pump off. I also ordered 4 gauge pods, a smaller tachometer, boost gauge, oil psi, and the fourth cup is for the AFR when I buy that. I'm going to line them up the pillar I think.
 
getting there. keep up the good work. it will all be worth it the first time that thing spools up and sends you on your way. then you will most likely be looking to make it faster. boost is addictive. just a heads up. lol.
 
I know it's addictive. I watch all you guys play with your setups. lol.

But I must restrain it to a degree. This car takes me to work, so it needs to... well - work. Once i start my new job, I will probably have the funds to buy a commuter car and get some serious play time in with the Dart, but for now... 8 psi, 10 may be my limit for a while.


I got the "manifold" finished. I had an attitude of "leak free" so once I checked all the welds, blew air through the pipes and sealed off the ends, the only place air ultimately escaped was through the seals on the ends I made after a LOT of pressure. I stil lwasn't satisfied, put some high temp JB on top of the welds, and then wrapped the whole thing when it was dry to try and contain heat near the carb and it looks a lot better when you cover up my "professional welding."







I also received my fuel system in the mail too, so I got the Walbro 255 pump, and a nice looking fuel pressure regulator. I did not expect the reg to come with all these AN fittings, but it looks nice, and there were 3 lengths of braided line included. Not a bad deal. It was $75.00 shipped off ebay. Finding it took forever as it was randomly listed as "ChEVY 350 REGULATOR BOOST" or something like that.



Everything in the box came with it, and it looks pretty robust. I'll take it apart and make sure all is well. To me it looks EXACTLY like an Aeromotive regulator... it may as well be one from the outside. inside will tell. I got 30 days to send it back if the inside doesn't look right. If the diaphragm and all is well, I'll run it, and see what happens. It is adjustable, has a return (which I am using) and looks the part.

This was the ad if anyone's interested, and if anyone else is copying, er... utilizing my build information. lol.

[ame="http://www.ebay.com/itm/321497392866?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT"]For Chevy 6AN Fitting Adjustable Fuel Pressure Regulator Boost PSI Gauge Kit | eBay[/ame]
 
setup looks good. that regulator is a hell of a deal. push on an fittings, bulkhead fitting and the regulator for that price, must be a mistake.
 
RustyPlymouth said:
setup looks good. that regulator is a hell of a deal. push on an fittings, bulkhead fitting and the regulator for that price, must be a mistake.
Click to expand...

I'm hoping it just is what it is, and is made to work. I'm assuming with a reg, it either works - or it doesn't. Hopefully it works. I'll pull it apart soon and see what makes it tick. It could be an exact aeromitive copy, or it could be exactly the same as aeromotive. I'll find that out.

The packaging was really nice too, it had an upper piece of styrofoam also cut out for the parts and those 3 lengths of braided hose were in the bottom of the box under the styrofoam.
 
Well i took it apart. I'm pretty happy with what I see. There's a strong solid (not movable side to side) spring and a diaphragm with a metal cap/ cup to mount the spring, then a cap on top of the spring to meet the housing. It is very well machined and made. The diaphragm was pretty well stuck to the body so I didn't want to move it, but it looks really good. Let's see how well it works, but so far I recommend it as a safe buy. I also had a realization. When you build a turbo car like this... they sold you the exact same part 3 times and called it different things. Blow Off Valve, Wastegate, and Fuel Pressure regulator.... All have the same thing... just different stuff going through them... There's a cap, spring with diaphragm, and a preload setting bolt, and then a reference port...
 
Well, hit another draw back today when I left my sister's house the brake pedal pushed all the way into the floor. I managed to slow the car down enough to get home. Front right wheel cylinder popped evidenced by a giant pool of brake fluid dripping down the back of the wheel. This is one of the 2 wheels I had big-o replace the brake cylinders on. They hosed me for $330 and they only did this two months ago. I know the work is under warranty, and it took them 3 days to get it done. I didn't have time to do them myself as I had to keep going to work, but the problem was, I made the mistake of letting someone else touch my car, and that;s not going to happen again. I'd expect one of the other 2 cylinders to pop, as they were older, but not the brand new one. Doesn't make any sense to me. So I found a new one; only one I could get was $17.00. I figured they'd be more expensive, and hopefully it doesn't take me that long to do. I've never messed with a drum brake, because I never had to, but learning time is now.

I could take it back to them, but I'm not sure if I want them to "fix" it again.
 
Serj22 said:
they sold you the exact same part 3 times and called it different things. Blow Off Valve, Wastegate, and Fuel Pressure regulator.... All have the same thing... just different stuff going through them... There's a cap, spring with diaphragm, and a preload setting bolt, and then a reference port...
Click to expand...

I can't say that anything you said here is not true... but the FUNCTIONS of those three parts are so markedly different that it is very misleading (to the uninitiated) to paint them all with the same brush; kind of like saying that a psychiatrist would make a good brain surgeon just because they both had 8 years of medical training... very different subject matter, and a boost-controlling wastegate that is going to limit your engine's forced induction, has nothing in common with the function with a blowoff valve, which will only operate at a closed throttle, or a boost-referenced fuel pressure regulator, which keep the fuel pressure consistent, so as not to overpower your carb's needle and seat assembly when the pump makes more pressure than the carb can handle.

Three totally different purposes, but as you say, the same three mechanisms are used to accomplish their individual functions..

I am aware that you already knew all this, but there may be people reading this generally well-written instructional thread, that may not... They are the ones who may need some additional information.

Then again, maybe I just talk too much.. :eek:ops:.

Wouldn't be the first time... ask anyone who reads this forced induction consistently... I have my flaws...:twisted:
 
Serj22 said:
I could take it back to them, but I'm not sure if I want them to "fix" it again.
Click to expand...

I can understand your consternation, based on what just happened, but 1. You have already paid for a reliable braking system once, and, 2. You may not have considered that a well-meaning mechanic MAY have installed a wheel cylinder that was (unbeknownst to him,) incorrectly assembled, and may have developed a leaking seal, totally exclusive of what he did.

I think I'd insist that they fix it, since you already paid for it.

Just my 2-cents...
 
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