Slant 6 Turbo 68Dart Project

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I pulled plug 3 to crank it and watch to see if the plug sparked. IE plug three completely removed from the head, and after a couple cranks the motor fired, shot the #3 plug tube out and stayed running, but ran like absolute dogshit. I put the plug back in and put the wire on and no start again.

This has me confused. I've double and tripple checked the spark plug wires, and they are all in the correct order, and the distributor is clocked to the EXACT same position I removed it from before disassembly. This is the only way to get the motor to run, is with one plug missing. Why is that?
 
You are absolutely certain that the firing order is right? What condition is the distributor cap in, any cracks or contamination? Is the cap on the distributor properly?
 
for ***** and grins. pull that plug and get it to run. turn the distributor back and forth slowly to see if it evens out at all. can you post a video of how it is running?
 
d55dave said:
You are absolutely certain that the firing order is right? What condition is the distributor cap in, any cracks or contamination? Is the cap on the distributor properly?
Click to expand...

The cap is new. Well... I just kept trying to find TDC and reclock the distributor, and eventually after testing the "blow on my finger" method I had turned it somewhere where it was near the timing mark on the wheel, and the white mark I made on the wheel. It's off by about 5 degrees on the wheel, and I can't find my timing light, but finally, I got it set and RUNNING.

I was about 45* off even though I marked it. Totally weird.

There's exhaust leak all over the manifold (yay!) and I'll have to sort that out, and also support the turbo with more brackets - possibly straight over to the water pump, because it is flopping all over the place (not literally, but you know).

video in a sec. of course I recorded the first run.
 
Here it is... untuned, not working right and leaking, but running.

[ame]http://youtu.be/AAI7qn4qjXA[/ame]
​
 
sounds good. you should try the bracket i made. going from the turbo to the water pump. it really helped with the turbo moving. when i wrapped my pipes i took the jpipe off and let the turbo hanging from it. it was solid, up and down anyway. what kind of manifold gasket are you using?
 
RustyPlymouth said:
sounds good. you should try the bracket i made. going from the turbo to the water pump. it really helped with the turbo moving. when i wrapped my pipes i took the jpipe off and let the turbo hanging from it. it was solid, up and down anyway. what kind of manifold gasket are you using?
Click to expand...

Your water pump idea might be what I go with. I've seen the "x" bracket you made. It looks sturdy enough. I could copy it pretty simply i hope. I just used whatever the auto parts store had for a gasket, dunno? It's maybe 1/8" thick? I don't think it's leaking after all, I believe the header paint is melting causing a really fishy smell all over.

I did blow up my first hose driving it two blocks to get gas. That was exciting. I thought there was a backfire, but then I opened the hood and one of the hoses had a 1" shred in it and was dangling at the bottom of that white 'T' off the turbo shell. I was kind of scared to do a good pull, but just drove it around. I'm having issues with the AFR gauge. It just says "HTR" as if it is not getting hot enough to read. The turbo shell is hot enough to burn you when you touch it, but somehow not hot enough to read...
 
ive been running remflex for a while now. they always seal. really happy with them. if its not leaking dont worry about it. melting paint and header wrap stink and will continue to for a while. ive had my car through a bunch of heat cycles and i can still smell the header wrap some times.

what is your wastegate set at? if its 8lbs or less i woulnt be to afraid of romping on it a little just dont stay in it long. that orange hose blew on ya? what kind of wideband did you go with?
 
RustyPlymouth said:
ive been running remflex for a while now. they always seal. really happy with them. if its not leaking dont worry about it. melting paint and header wrap stink and will continue to for a while. ive had my car through a bunch of heat cycles and i can still smell the header wrap some times. what is your wastegate set at? if its 8lbs or less i woulnt be to afraid of romping on it a little just dont stay in it long. that orange hose blew on ya? what kind of wideband did you go with?
Click to expand...

Just one piece of the hose blew. The one closest to the snail shell.

The wastegate I have no idea what it's set at as I had no way to hook it up to a compressor at the time. I'll have to finish routing my hoses and keep them from blowing, because that caused the boost gauge to stop reading anything. I'd like to get it set to 5 for now, and then plow through it.

I have this setup for afr:

http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/MTXL.php
 
i havent blown a hose yet. thats pretty crazy. i have a mix of regular vacuum hose and fuel injection hose for my various references. ill make it all fi hose sooner or later. 5psi is a good starting point. pretty hard to hurt the motor with that little bit of boost. hell i ran my normal timing at 5psi and it flew and didnt blow up. on regular gas no less.

found this in the support section of the page you listed.

2.4 Sensor Calibration
Once the unit has been wired and a suitable location has been found for both
the gauge and the sensor it is time to do the sensor calibration. Innovate
Motorsports’ ‘Direct Digital’ wideband measurement principal allows you to
calibrate the sensor to compensate for sensor wear. This procedure takes
just a few moments and it will ensure the most accurate readings throughout
the oxygen sensor’s life. This procedure is required anytime a NEW oxygen
sensor is installed.
The calibration procedure requires that the oxygen sensor be in free air, this
means removed from the exhaust system completely.
1. With the sensor disconnected, apply power to the MTX-L.
When power is applied, all three digits will light up and the needle bar will
sweep once through all LEDs. Then the status light will turn red and the
numeric display will read “E2”. This is an error code, indicating that no
sensor is detected. Leave unit powered on for minimum 30 seconds.
2. Power down the MTX-L and attach the oxygen sensor using the
cable provided. When making these connections, make sure they
are fully seated and locked. Again, make sure that the sensor is in
free air (not in the exhaust).
3. Power up the MTX-L.
Again, the display should ‘sweep’, but instead of an error, the display will
display “Htr”. This indicates that the sensor is being heated up to
operating temperature. After 30-60 seconds, the display will switch from
“Htr” to “CAL”, indicating that the sensor is being calibrated. A few
seconds later, your MTX-L will begin displaying AFR. Since the sensor is
in free air, the gauge will default to the upper limit of 22.4.
The calibration procedure has completed and the system is now ready
for use.
Important: You can disconnect and reconnect the sensor and sensor
cable for installation without losing your calibration. However, if you
power up the MTX-L without a sensor connected, your calibration will
be reset (see step #1 above).

might be worth a try if you havent yet.
 
I'm going to try the calibration thing. I didn't even think of that.

Ill have to do that tonight hopefully. Then I am really hoping it works, because after all that getting things together fast, the car is starting to fight me.

Today was filled with 2 issues, in 10 miles. After a little bit, the sandwich adapter I used for the filter fell apart, almost literally, and the filter popped off. Drained about 2 quarts real quick. Luckily I noticed before I dried her out. So there's my review of the oil filter sandwich. The adapter plate ITSELF is fine, but the bolt that holds it down came apart. The threads literally unraveled. Too thin.

This is what I made in the end, and utilized the stock sender location, BTW - 3/8" thread chrysler? Wow... ALso it takes a 1 1/16" socket to remove it. Dang.



After getting that resolved by building a brass fitting system to mount the sensor, and oil feed to, I drove it about 200 feet, and couldn't keep it running. I stopped, and got out, sure enough - nice puddle of gas under the back. I looked underneath, and One of the fuel lines near the feed side of the pump split. Luckily I had all my cutting tools in the car, cut it, prepped it, and remounted it, and was back on the road.

I drove 10 miles pretty trouble free, but pulled into the driveway just now and there's a nice tiny oil pool under the car. Likely didn't tighten down one of the fittings - hopefully easy fix. (yes I did replace the oil that fell out earlier before the car ever moved).

Right now, it's real hard to keep running at idle, if you face downhill. It will idle all day uphill, but downhill will stall at idle... ALso the whole car in general is driving like a dog. Totally slow. Obviously I am at fault somewhere, but to figure out where is the key. The compressor obviously spools, gets oil, etc... and spools down. The car almost seems like it is driving and ignoring the turbo if that makes sense. I believe the wastegate may be at full open somehow... Also the Blow off valve seems to not be functioning so I'm guessing the pressure is not getting that high at all.
 
sorry to hear about your sammich. good thing you caught it before it drained the motor. you are either really observant or really lucky. most people wouldnt have caught it, myself included. the fittings will work though. did you wrap them in teflon tape when you put it all together? i used the yellow stuff for gas and oil when i did mine but the regular white should also work.

did you do anything to the carb when you put it on? i would check the float level and go from there given your up and down hill observations. also the idle mix screws. do you have a tach? what does it idle at? figuring out the afr gauge will help tons as far as figuring out what is going on. have you tried adjusting the wastegate? does the boost gauge read anything when you get on it? do you have a gasket from the carb hat to the carb? fwiw my car at 5psi didnt really make any noise or do much from the bov. i could feel it when i put my hand in front of the port and revved it though, it should blow when you let off the gas. welcome to the fun part of the build, tuning.
 
I used the white teflon, I was just showing how it fit together. I think I should use the yellow, because I believe it is leaking. Had a nice little puddle under the car when I pulled up after adding about 3 quarts. The dipstick shows next to nothing on it - which is odd. I ran it at idle for quite a while and felt under the fittings, nothing was happening.

I used a large O-ring between the hat and the carb, and you can still hear a high pitch whine. It seems like it is coming from the carb somewhere. As for float level, I pulled it off, and flipped it upside down, and set it near the screws, which is about correct. I'll have to check it again.

I knew the filter or something popped, because I just know for some reason when the car is doing something wrong. I can just feel it I guess. I also drive mine everyday so I know how it's supposed to act. The wastegate I made hard on myself because I have to go get a set of bent allens, I only have the swiss army style ones that are all in a set. It does not clear the intake manifold. There'd be plenty of room to slide a bent one under and adjust.

I'm also not sure if having two springs in the BOV is necessary, since it is hooked to boost reference. I'm guessing when there's a difference or raise in the intake pressure, it overcomes the pressure on the turbo and opens until the pressure is equalized.

The car stutters and resists moving forward from a stop. I have to baby it real slow until it gets spinning a little.

No tach hooked up yet, if I didn't have to go to work today and tomorrow, I would've put it on already. I'm sort of glad I did take it out so I can deal with all these issues one at a time. It's still got a pretty strong smell going for it. But hopefully that subsides.

My boost gauge shows absolutely nothing. I'm going to check the line, and make sure it didn't pop apart somewhere. The guage nipple is on the back of the carb hat, directly across from the intake charge pipe. Maybe there's a better spot?
 
the white stuff should work. the drip may have been residual oil from the failure. not showing on the dipstick is odd. i would get to the bottom of that fast. ive been usuing the Fel Pro 2104 carb gasket. had my hat on and off more times then i would like to think about and it is still sealing good. not sure i would have had the same result with an o-ring.

is the accelerator pump working? is it pissing down the carb throat when you hit the gas?

here is a pretty straight forward video on how to adjust the float. if its off it will stumble off idle and take a while to start to rev. its easy to do and makes a huge difference.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ge-mIk6nEYQ"]How To Adjust Fuel And Float Level On Holley Carbs - YouTube[/ame]

not sure about the springs in the bov. boost holds it closed and vacuum opens it. if it doesnt hold the boost then you need to crank down on the adjustment to over power the initial vacuum. it should be getting its signal from the bottom of the carb or the manifold. not ported vacuum.

is your boost gauge vacuum and boost or just boost? your boost gauge should show what the motor is seeing (i.e. manifold pressure) so it should be moved to below the carb. not sure if you have a 3/8" vacuum port on the base of your carb or not but if you do pull the nipple out and tap the port and use the hardware that came with the gauge to hook up to that. if not tap into the manifold somewhere.
 
I was not aware the blow off needed to be on manifold pressure. Would the vac advance port work, or do I Need to tap into the carburetor adapter plate or something?

I ordered another section of 6" radius U bend pipe, another turbo flange, and a wastegate that mounts on the back of the turbo housing kind of "built in." I'm just not really happy with how the pipe turned out and I think it's leaking around the wastegate port, causing the smoke from just that spot. I am just kind of tired of dealing with it, and need to simplify things, so I'm just going to remake how the turbo mounts up, and point it a little better away from the radiator. Sometimes it's just best to start fresh.

Today when I went to go to work, the car would start, stay running for a sec, then die. Over and over - fuel pump was working, and if you kept the revs at like 2000 it would stay running, but die otherwise. I'm going to check the float bowl again and see what's up. I haven't even been able to touch the turbo tuning itself with all these little hiccups - fuel, oil, etc... :banghead:
 
vac advance wont work. pretty sure that is ported vacuum (only works when you give it gas). tapping the adapter would work.

i went internal wastegate for ease of setup. if i were to do it again with this setup i would in a heartbeat.

as for the motor not staying running. gotta remember there is no choke. rev it to 2k for a while and let the temp come up and see if it will idle. getting the carb dialed in will help with the cold starts. its a shame you arent closer.
 
Yeah it is a shame. Unfortunately there's not many folks around these parts with turbo slants - well - that i know of.

I always figured the turbo impeller would act sort of like a choke, and keep some kind of air/fuel mixture rich enough to start, gess not.
 
RustyPlymouth said:
not so much with the choke. did you try to calibrate the afr gauge?
Click to expand...

Not yet. Didn't even get to drive it today. Had to get to work quick and just had to leave her in the driveway. Now it gets dark at about 6pm which is bad so all my daylight is gone after work. So tomorrow morning I'll try that regular air calibration. Hopefully that sets it straight.
 
Serj22 said:
Yeah it is a shame. Unfortunately there's not many folks around these parts with turbo slants - well - that i know of. I always figured the turbo impeller would act sort of like a choke, and keep some kind of air/fuel mixture rich enough to start, gess not.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately true. You will probably have that thing dialed in before I am able to pop my hood to start working on mine.

Just got my exhaust flange for my turbo today. Custom made for three inch pipe.

Sorry you are having such a bad run of luck this week. Despite the trouble you are still moving forward. I would like to be of help but will be in hot water if I don't finish building a chicken coop at my girlfriends place.

Mike
 
You'll get to it eventually. lol. I just have the limiting factor of space driving my speed for building. Having to build a chicken coop before a significant other gets angry sounds like a very harsh world to be in.

My exhaust flange for the new improved J pipe showed up today. I ordered it off Ebay literally yesterday morning. Somehow it got here from Nevada just now... came in a huge box, for a tiny flange - if only the rest of the stuff showed up with that speed, but it's looking like wednesday will be the creation day for the new pipe, possibly thursday. I'm going to have a lot more patience with the welding this time and make sure everything is tacked together super strong so it can't rotate again while I'm welding it. I think before I somehow melted the tack, and then spun the flanges on accident and then welded them together. I'll try and be a lot more careful this time, and see how nice I can make them. The downpipe on the new built in wastegate flange has a V clamp, and the other side of the "V" that you weld to the rest of the exhaust pipe, which will make everything so much easier I think.
 
Well, tomorrow will be determination day. The kids will be at their mom's house, so I can plug away at the car. I had all of today, but would rather spend time with them on my one day off this week, so I let the car go, tomorrow though - I'll have time to nail down the fuel/ carburetor issue, and get her back on the street.

I did calibrate the gauge using the instructions for earlier, and sure enough - in open air it read 22.5 so I'm guessing it will work now. I put it back in the exhaust and it should be good to go now.

I can't wait for the V-band downpipe setup to come with that new wastegate. That will allow me to turn the 45* pipe however I want. Very exciting to improve on a design that was used for less than 15 miles... lol.
 
Well, like stated earlier, the afr gauge and sensor is calibrated, and just now I got her running.

You'll never guess what it was ----- basic carburetor stuff. YES. I forgot to adjust the idle circuit at all. It was squeezed all the way in... and the idle set screw was not even touching the arm. Screwed that in a couple times, reattached fuel pump, set float bowl, and she runs.

So with the gauge calibrated, on start up and warm up - I get 18.5 then it drops to 17. If you push the gas a little, it jumps down to 13, and then back up to 17.

Is it supposed to be this lean at idle? I'm assuming the idea is to have it near 11 or 10 at cruise and boost?

I adjusted the set screw on the bOV as well. It doesn't have a high pitched screaming as it did before. It is less audible. I'm thinking the pressure overcame the piston on the bov and was leaving it slightly open. I turned the wastegate preset in a little bit. Can't wait to get the new wastegate setup with the more simple set it and forget it adjustments.
 
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