So long, Tony Stewart

-
I'm waiting for someone to post the obligatory "He died doing what he loves". :roll:

Pure BS line, usually stated by someone who doesn't know what to say.
Hint: It's Better to say nothing than something stupid.

He died because of Bravado, both his and Tony's. He's gone, and Tony's career could be in ruins, too. It's a lose-lose situation, and what he was doing when he died doesn't make it one damn bit better. At this point, it doesn't even matter who was wrong. He's dead. That's it. What remains to be seen is what happens with Stewart.
Presently I have no opinion either way, I don't know what happened, the video is inconclusive, I don't know what Steward was thinking, or saw, I don't know what Ward was trying to prove.
Perhaps an investigation will sort it all out, I don't know, and after rereading the thread, it's pretty obvious that no one else does, either.
We'll see.
 
Civil law suit against Tony and the track...........
 
crackedback said:
The kids ran down AT LEAST two lanes of an active racetrack to show how pissed off he was. That's the first thing most get told NOT to do, You NEVER walk on or enter an active race surface. You get the F OFF the surface. He created his own peril.

Black suit, bad lighting, causing the car before stewart to swerve, get out of the car before safety crew arrives, cars still going 50+...

Bad choices and he paid the ultimate price.
Click to expand...

crackedback said:
What happens when you goose a car with a right rear tire 2" bigger in diameter than the left rear?

Think about that for a minute and get back.

I forget what the stagger is in tire size, but, that's an example.

Yep, Tony wanted to run the kid down. get real... Don't run onto an active track. You put yourself in harms way and bad **** tends to happen, see gun range example. Even a golf driving range will get you hurt/killed if you are stupid enough to walk out and grab a clubhead before everyone else "STOPS"!!!
Click to expand...

Xs2

I am a Nascar and roundy-round fan.. I don't like or dislike Tony Stewart,, but I do respect him..

He fights with his heart, his mouth, his fists,, and sometimes cars.. He would never take a car against a person by choice...

As mentioned, those tracks at nite are not the best lit, Vision isn't the greatest with long shadows all over, you've got a face full of dirt,, the grill/bars they put in front of the driver to stop rocks getting in the driver face, usually has chunks of dirt stuck to it..

I doubt Tony saw the guy till the last minute, when the guy jumped out from car in front,, blipping the throttle with that rear wheel stagger is an INSTANT left turn, I'm thinking to avoid,, after that ,, ??

They blip throttles to blow mud outta the cleated tires, it's habit,, like nascar driver's wiggle back and forth to clean their tires,, all the way around the track..

I think, as mentioned, if you walk down onto a active track, that should be the end of your career,, either way..

Terrible loss... terrible shame..

Take some time to see what Tony Stewart does off track,, and what he does "anonymous" ,,,

jmo
 
memike said:
So sorry I miss read this RustyRatRod. MY BAD INDEED.
I should read things ALLOT closer or have it read to me
Sorry
. It was a protective mode of the pleasure and respect I have for stock car racing sir
. I wount retract it but I am very sorry for getting out of order .
Click to expand...

No sweat, Mike. I know you love NASCAR so I was expectin your feelins to run high. We all have opinions of things. It's just good to see for the most part here we have discussed them rationally.
 
fishmens67 said:
now that would be pure bullshit ! drivers need to stay in car when on the track.
Click to expand...

I was just thinking the same,I am sure NASCAR and out hers will follow suit All drivers must stay in there cars @ all times unless there in danger,what do you all think.
 
RustyRatRod said:
No sweat, Mike. I know you love NASCAR so I was expectin your feelins to run high. We all have opinions of things. It's just good to see for the most part here we have discussed them rationally.
Click to expand...

Thank you for excepting my apologies and under standing .
I am on my way to my older sons house to watch the race with him and his wife and my 7 year old granddaughter .
I feel much better noe sir :D
 
Oops. . Go Brad Kesalowske and Joey Lagono racing for Team Penske.
 
i''m not a big NASCAR guy, but as a "sleazy lawyer" i can say a few things. first, there will be a civil suit filed against tony and the track. the track may get out of the suit due to "assumption of risk" of all driver's and other liability waivers that most tracks require. however, the track's insurance company may simply want to settle. stewart on the other hand is probably done. there is a chance that he could face a criminal charge of manslaughter in this case (depending upon the state's criminal statutes) and it's possible that the evidence available will not show that stewart did everything he could to avoid hitting the other driver. if he faces a criminal indictment and/or loses a substantial civil suit, it's hard to see how he could secure any backers in the future. further, tracks and sponsors may decide that because of stewart's criminal conviction (if that happens) and/or a large civil judgment, he is too much of a risk to be associated with. for example, if stewart continued to race and got into another accident involving an injury to another driver, the present incident would likely come up in a "pattern of behavior" argument for liability. on the other hand, let's asume that tony stewart tried to avoid hitting the guy on the track, it's hard to imagine how stewart would or could go back in a race car and drive as aggressively as one must to be a winning driver. his understandable new caution would unlikely be competitive in the world of high speed/high steaks racing. unfortunately, there are many things that can happen to public figures, racing or other athelets from which their carreers cannot survive. i suspect, tony stewart will suffer this fate. i feel sorry for the victim's family - and for stewart. i have never encountered anyone who was involved in causing the death of another person whose life has not been substantially changed by the incident - almost always for the worse.
 
Looking at if from a legal prespective, someone might think it would "boost" their career much like the Duke Lacrosse player case and charge him. Jury of public opinion is more evident these days where people buckle under the pressure. (Maybe not so much the case here)

That said, it is going to be hard to prove that he "intended" to run the guy over goosing the throttle or not. Perhaps the "goosing" was to blow by him or avoid him at the last second. Perhaps he slipped. Tony could argue poor visiblity. What if the guy died from hitting the wall after being bumped? Is that manslaughter/murder? I am sure everone signs awaiver which stated in part not to exit their cars in said conditions. We all know bumping and pushing goes on in these races. My dad used to take me to that track ever since I was a young kid. I saw many Hot Heads do this or that but it does not change anything at the end of the day. The track is not responsible for what driver's do or not not do.

Again, if you are sitting on the guard rails at Niagara Falls and fall over; who is at fault? If you lay on train tracks and get run over; who's at fault? If you jump in front of a roller coaster, who's at fault?

NEW YORK STATE PENAL LAW:

15.05 Culpability; definitions of culpable mental states.
The following definitions are applicable to this chapter:
1. "Intentionally." A person acts intentionally with respect to a
result or to conduct described by a statute defining an offense when his
conscious objective is to cause such result or to engage in such
conduct.
2. "Knowingly." A person acts knowingly with respect to conduct or to
a circumstance described by a statute defining an offense when he is
aware that his conduct is of such nature or that such circumstance
exists.
3. "Recklessly." A person acts recklessly with respect to a result or
to a circumstance described by a statute defining an offense when he is
aware of and consciously disregards a substantial and unjustifiable risk
that such result will occur or that such circumstance exists. The risk
must be of such nature and degree that disregard thereof constitutes a
gross deviation from the standard of conduct that a reasonable person
would observe in the situation. A person who creates such a risk but is
unaware thereof solely by reason of voluntary intoxication also acts
recklessly with respect thereto.
4. "Criminal negligence." A person acts with criminal negligence with
respect to a result or to a circumstance described by a statute defining
an offense when he fails to perceive a substantial and unjustifiable
risk that such result will occur or that such circumstance exists. The
risk must be of such nature and degree that the failure to perceive it
constitutes a gross deviation from the standard of care that a
reasonable person would observe in the situation.

Do you think any of these fit this situation?
 
the other drivers should have hammered tonys hands a LONG time ago. and people wander why i dont like NASCAR. EDIT so Jim you will admit you are a lawyer? LOL LOL
 
jimharvard said:
i''m not a big NASCAR guy, but as a "sleazy lawyer" i can say a few things. first, there will be a civil suit filed against tony and the track. the track may get out of the suit due to "assumption of risk" of all driver's and other liability waivers that most tracks require. however, the track's insurance company may simply want to settle. stewart on the other hand is probably done. there is a chance that he could face a criminal charge of manslaughter in this case (depending upon the state's criminal statutes) and it's possible that the evidence available will not show that stewart did everything he could to avoid hitting the other driver. if he faces a criminal indictment and/or loses a substantial civil suit, it's hard to see how he could secure any backers in the future. further, tracks and sponsors may decide that because of stewart's criminal conviction (if that happens) and/or a large civil judgment, he is too much of a risk to be associated with. for example, if stewart continued to race and got into another accident involving an injury to another driver, the present incident would likely come up in a "pattern of behavior" argument for liability. on the other hand, let's asume that tony stewart tried to avoid hitting the guy on the track, it's hard to imagine how stewart would or could go back in a race car and drive as aggressively as one must to be a winning driver. his understandable new caution would unlikely be competitive in the world of high speed/high steaks racing. unfortunately, there are many things that can happen to public figures, racing or other athelets from which their carreers cannot survive. i suspect, tony stewart will suffer this fate. i feel sorry for the victim's family - and for stewart. i have never encountered anyone who was involved in causing the death of another person whose life has not been substantially changed by the incident - almost always for the worse.
Click to expand...

Thanks for that post, Jim. In my opinion it's the most level head comment in the thread. No presumptions, just a statement of possibilities. :thumbup:
 
inertia said:
Xs2

I am a Nascar and roundy-round fan.. I don't like or dislike Tony Stewart,, but I do respect him..

He fights with his heart, his mouth, his fists,, and sometimes cars.. He would never take a car against a person by choice...

As mentioned, those tracks at nite are not the best lit, Vision isn't the greatest with long shadows all over, you've got a face full of dirt,, the grill/bars they put in front of the driver to stop rocks getting in the driver face, usually has chunks of dirt stuck to it..

I doubt Tony saw the guy till the last minute, when the guy jumped out from car in front,, blipping the throttle with that rear wheel stagger is an INSTANT left turn, I'm thinking to avoid,, after that ,, ??

They blip throttles to blow mud outta the cleated tires, it's habit,, like nascar driver's wiggle back and forth to clean their tires,, all the way around the track..

I think, as mentioned, if you walk down onto a active track, that should be the end of your career,, either way..

Terrible loss... terrible shame..

Take some time to see what Tony Stewart does off track,, and what he does "anonymous" ,,,

jmo
Click to expand...

Exactly right Inertia. The only thing I would add is that when you're on a banked curve your field of view is limited which contributes to your ability to see what's in front of you and decreases your reaction time. Depending on the bank the only things you can see sometimes are the cars directly in front and in back of you.
 
Regardless of intent, Tony is his own worst enemy. I highly doubt he intentionally struck Ward. However, his history really brings up the possibility he intentionally tried to kick out that rear and scare the kid. Honestly, I believe it to be a horrific accident with no fault. I don't think it can be proven he did it on purpose. I also think Ward should have stayed clear of the other cars. As for a civil suit, of course it's going to happen because our society has become sue happy. Nobody can be held accountable for their actions. It has to be the other guy's fault, even though this young man would still be alive today if he had stayed in the clear. Tony is a douche bag, he has the history, but sometimes when you go looking for trouble, trouble le finds you.
 
I don't watch much racing except straight line.

My opinion is car 13's driver cause an unsafe/deadly condition
by leaving his car and running into traffic.
As a result of his poor judgement he was struck and killed by oncoming traffic.

Although not a popular opionion , Ward was totally at fault and it was
lucky only himself and no others were injured.

I see no intent or malice on Stewarts part in the wreck of the 13 car
or the death of its driver.
 
MTmopars said:
Regardless of intent, Tony is his own worst enemy. I highly doubt he intentionally struck Ward. However, his history really brings up the possibility he intentionally tried to kick out that rear and scare the kid. Honestly, I believe it to be a horrific accident with no fault. I don't think it can be proven he did it on purpose. I also think Ward should have stayed clear of the other cars. As for a civil suit, of course it's going to happen because our society has become sue happy. Nobody can be held accountable for their actions. It has to be the other guy's fault, even though this young man would still be alive today if he had stayed in the clear. Tony is a douche bag, he has the history, but sometimes when you go looking for trouble, trouble le finds you.
Click to expand...

never the less, tony whipped his front wheels toward the guy, then gunned it-in the video I saw. wondering if he intended to throw dirt on the kid, that`s big in the world of off roaders!
the guys getting out of their cars is some what natural instinct( first thing I want to do after a wreck is get out of the car) fire scared I guess. but the kid did go toward him some. am sure stewart is sorry now, so are allmost all criminals when they get caught!
 
Not a big Tony fan, but I did watch that video many times and frame by frame. Tony wasn't going any faster than the other cars, basically their caution speed. I know these cars are set up staggered and will naturally turn left especially with the locked rear axles. Whenever you watch these cars race, they turn left and kick the rear out to the right as soon as they let off the throttle. In the last few frames of the video the guy looks extremely close to the right front Stewarts car and is still taking a step towards him. If Stewart took his foot off the accelerator the rear would have naturally gone right and slammed that guy broadside. Those cars are wider in the rear than the front so if the guy was right up at the side of Stewarts front tire, the rear would have caught him even if Stewart just drove straight. And all this is happening on a dirt track. To get the rear of the car to kick to the left (away from the other guy) would have to be an intentional move and "blipping" throttle would be required, and that would seem like an intent to avoid contact. That's what looks and sounds like happened. So all those reports of Stewart "intentionally fishtailing into" the other guy don't seem very accurate to me. It was an unnecessary tragedy that could defiantely have been avoided by one person (Kevin Ward jr) and MAYBE by another (Stewart). But those are just my thoughts on the subject. Bottom line is someone lost their life in this incident and it's a loss for many.
 
anyone have any thoughts on the number of the car the kid was driving ?
 
It's really easy to make a judgement when you can watch a video over and over and frame by frame but in all reality those things happen in a split second....I can't imagine Stewart saying I'm gonna run over that little S**t and show him. I see a tragic accident where 2 split second actions turned ugly. May the deceased RIP and may Tony Stewart find peace of mind in this tough time.
 
Back in Time said:
It's really easy to make a judgement when you can watch a video over and over and frame by frame but in all reality those things happen in a split second....I can't imagine Stewart saying I'm gonna run over that little S**t and show him. I see a tragic accident where 2 split second actions turned ugly. May the deceased RIP and may Tony Stewart find peace of mind in this tough time.
Click to expand...

I wasn't making a judgement just saying by the way the car moved and the proximity of the other guy, looks like Tony did what he could get the back end away from the guy not "fishtail" into him like many other are claiming.
 
HawaiiDuster said:
I wasn't making a judgement just saying by the way the car moved and the proximity of the other guy, looks like Tony did what he could get the back end away from the guy not "fishtail" into him like many other are claiming.
Click to expand...

The kid could have made his point from the cushion, but that wasn't good enough I guess. Had to walk down into the active track to really show everyone...

Tragic event that was absolutely and totally on the victims irresponsible action and disregard for his own safety.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
-

Back
Top