starter grinding

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65Val

65Val

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Patient::: 74 360 block and '66 904 automatic bellhousing with early 904 (small hub) converter with B+M weighted flexplate ...on engine run stand. I cannot stop the starter from grinding. I have tried several starters to no avail. Is the tin spacer/cover required for proper starter/converter alignment?

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65Val said:
Patient::: 74 360 block and '66 904 automatic bellhousing with early 904 (small hub) converter with B+M weighted flexplate ...on engine run stand. I cannot stop the starter from grinding. I have tried several starters to no avail. Is the tin spacer/cover required for proper starter/converter alignment?

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Aluminum piece is not mandatory.
Where are the teeth on the converter rashed?
That can tell us a lot.
Pictures of the teeth close, and maybe a couple of different angles and in focus.
 
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TrailBeast said:
Aluminum piece is not mandatory.
Where are the teeth on the converter rashed?
That can tell us a lot.
Pictures of the teeth close, and maybe a couple of different angles and in focus.
Click to expand...
Couple of small spots where the teeth aren't perfect, but it grinds at all spots on the ring gear.
 
65Val said:
Couple of small spots where the teeth aren't perfect, but it grinds at all spots on the ring gear.
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If it grinds on all teeth then all teeth have a witness mark.
Again, show em.
Corners rounded on the block side edge is a crapload different than all tops of the teeth having marks for example.
“My starter grinds” is a very general statement.
 
The flex plate isn't enough to hold the converter steady. I have my money on the flex plate is.......wait for it..........flexing and allowing the ring gear to come out of complete mesh with the starter drive. Without the converter being installed in the transmission, it's just hanging off the flex plate, which it's not designed to do. Just a guess, of course.
 
RustyRatRod said:
The flex plate isn't enough to hold the converter steady. I have my money on the flex plate is.......wait for it..........flexing and allowing the ring gear to come out of complete mesh with the starter drive. Without the converter being installed in the transmission, it's just hanging off the flex plate, which it's not designed to do. Just a guess, of course.
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Rusty… you might be right. I just figured this was a way to run the engine before installing. I had the access to the converter and bell housing cheap.
 
65Val said:
Just for ***** and giggles, what if I cut the converter open and removed a bunch of the excess weight...basically just leaving the ring gear and a bit of the outside housing?
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I think that would help, IF that's what the problem is. I'm just guessing...I'd hate to see you whack up a good converter for nothin.
 
If it is indeed flexing, a later model torque convertor may help. The early small nose TC flopping around in the later crank flange pocket probably isn't helping stability at all.
 
65Val said:
Rusty… you might be right. I just figured this was a way to run the engine before installing. I had the access to the converter and bell housing cheap.
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Think about this for a second. When the transmission is mounted to the engine, the converter (bolted to the flex plate) is supported horizontally by: The pilot on the converter into the crank flange, AND the hub is supported by the transmissions pump. With what you're doing now , with it mounted just to the flex plate, the hub has no support at all. And I personally don't see mounting it to a B & M or any other flex plate will cure the problem. JMHO and others may not agree.:canada:
 
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transman said:
Think about this for a second. When the transmission is mounted to the engine, the converter (bolted to the flex plate) is supported horizontally by: The pilot on the converter into the crank flange, AND the hub is supported by the transmissions pump. With what you're doing now , with it mounted just to the flex plate, the hub has no support at all. And I personally don't see mounting it to a B & M or any other flex plate will cure the problem. JMHO and others may not agree.:canada:
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Ok, I tried lifting the converter by placing a piece of pipe in the drive hub and prying up, to take the weight… converter didn’t move at all….B+ M weighted flex plate behind the converter doesn’t have much “flex”…and powering the starter while prying up makes no difference… grinds the same. The hub has Pat Blais’s converter ring on it as well.
 
65Val said:
Ok, I tried lifting the converter by placing a piece of pipe in the drive hub and prying up, to take the weight… converter didn’t move at all….B+ M weighted flex plate behind the converter doesn’t have much “flex”…and powering the starter while prying up makes no difference… grinds the same. The hub has Pat Blais’s converter ring on it as well.
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Ok, my post was just a thought. Good luck on finding out what the:mad:is going on.
 
65Val said:
Good ole Chrysler starter….

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Okay, we seem to have become fixated on the torque convertor being the issue- but have you bench tested the starter to make sure the Bendix is kicking out properly, not just part way and not engaging completely? Could just be a worn or dirty drive and just needs a bit of cleaning up. Pop the tin cover off; inspect, clean and lube everything and you may easily be back on track.
 
Professor Fate said:
Okay, we seem to have become fixated on the torque convertor being the issue- but have you bench tested the starter to make sure the Bendix is kicking out properly, not just part way and not engaging completely? Could just be a worn or dirty drive and just needs a bit of cleaning up. Pop the tin cover off; inspect, clean and lube everything and you may easily be back on track.
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Starter’s fine… I have tried 3 altogether, and same problem.

I think I have a clue though… cut a window in the bell to see the starter/converter area. It appears I have a converter that has too many teeth, too close together as the Bendix teeth wont mesh with the ring gear teeth. I have video of them not working together, but the forum won’t let me post it.

I was under the impression that 904 converters were all the same up to ‘67, which this one is as it has the small hub?

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