Stroker advice

-
CLAY72dart said:
I

I’m not worried about the cam honestly I’m just trying to collect parts that will work together so I can build this thing. I think the thread got more fixated on how I’m going to drive the car and less on what stroker kit has the best results. I rebuilt my 904 transmission off of this forum after never working on one alone. I’m just trying to do that with the motor.
Click to expand...
When it comes the stroker kit yes you want steel crank good rods, but the pistons have to work with the rest of the combo, Mainly Compression ratio and valve clearance, so you to have figure out the whole package first so you know which pistons.
 
Start with what your looking to do with it, how you want perform not just with your foot in it.
The vaguer the intentions the less likely to be satisfied with the results.

Your reengineering your car the engine driveline suspension brakes tires etc.. are interconnected.
You have to figure out a game plan. 1st is knowing what your trying to accomplish.
 
CLAY72dart said:
Budget I would say is 4-5000 for the motor.
Click to expand...

Have you considered this? Short stroke/big bore, and you can change the spark plugs. You can beat on it and not worry as you would with long stroke/small bore.

Before you spend money, make some tables in excel or google sheets to compare your options.

1688659963159.png
 
Ottmundr said:
Have you considered this? Short stroke/big bore, and you can change the spark plugs. You can beat on it and not worry as you would with long stroke/small bore.

Before you spend money, make some tables in excel or google sheets to compare your options.

View attachment 1716111240
Click to expand...

There's always the 451 option as well. Not much of a leap from a 383.
 
CLAY72dart said:
I was hoping 4-5 thousand for the engine and another 1500-2000 for the brake kit and I’m trying to find a beefy rear for the car. I will probably just take one from a junkyard rt and make it work.
Click to expand...

Talk to Cass. Do not go see Cal Worthington at your local pic-and-pull.

Quality Body Shop Drivetrain

DoctorDiff specializes in classic Chrysler, Dodge, Plymouth rearends. Dr. Diff carries parts for Dana 60, Mopar 8 3/4", Ford 9" or 12 bolt Chevy.
www.doctordiff.com www.doctordiff.com
 
Ottmundr said:
Have you considered this? Short stroke/big bore, and you can change the spark plugs. You can beat on it and not worry as you would with long stroke/small bore.

Before you spend money, make some tables in excel or google sheets to compare your options.

View attachment 1716111240
Click to expand...
There basically the same cid stock bore 318 with a 4" stroke 384.
I agree 383 is the better way or 400/413/440.
 
Cuda416 said:
There's always the 451 option as well. Not much of a leap from a 383.
Click to expand...

True, that is a 3.75" arm with short compression height pistons which can lead to the pistons rocking in the bore and increased wear, I get the impression that he wants the motor to last too. There are still a LOT of 383s out there.

If he wants to go with a 318-390, sure go for it, maybe @MrJLR can chime in on his 390.

There as many options as his imagination and wallet will allow. First thing is research. It is time to nerd out and buy a bunch of books to learn what is available. After all my nerding out, consultations with my bank account, reading tea leaves and chicken entrails while inhaling the incense of roasting tires, the Thunder God of Torque commanded me to build a stock stroke LA360 first, then to build a 400-470 B block.
 
CLAY72dart said:
No I bought a pair of 360 915 heads for the build. Is 400 dollars a good amount for them?
Click to expand...
Depends on their condition and work needed to them. If the valves aren’t sunk in, that’s really good. If the 915 heads are the 1.88 intake valve sort, you’ll do well by going to a 2.02 intake valve. The exhaust can go to a 1.65 if need be.
CLAY72dart said:
I’ll explain to you how I think this build works. I’m assuming i take the entire motor apart then take the block to an engine shop for testing. Then it gets honed to 30 60 or 90 over then I buy the stroker kit corresponding to the bore then I get heads ported then it gets put back together with new parts and I run it. If I’m wrong please tell me where so I can learn.
Click to expand...
When you bring in the block, have it sonic checked for the wall thickness. Bore it as little as possible. See if your machinist has a boring torque hone plate. If not, find a guy that has one.

@Ottmundr , is this guy close to Indo to see Brian?


CLAY72dart said:
I have a 4 barrel intake and carb I would like to use a high flow water pump and other parts.
Click to expand...
What intake manifold and carb do you have?
A high flow water pump is a good idea. They’re just a few bucks about a stock unit and worth it IMO.
What “Other Parts” are on your mind?
 
rumblefish360 said:
Depends on their condition and work needed to them. If the valves aren’t sunk in, that’s really good. If the 915 heads are the 1.88 intake valve sort, you’ll do well by going to a 2.02 intake valve. The exhaust can go to a 1.65 if need be.

When you bring in the block, have it sonic checked for the wall thickness. Bore it as little as possible. See if your machinist has a boring torque hone plate. If not, find a guy that has one.

@Ottmundr , is this guy close to Indo to see Brian?



What intake manifold and carb do you have?
A high flow water pump is a good idea. They’re just a few bucks about a stock unit and worth it IMO.
What “Other Parts” are on your mind?
Click to expand...
Um... Fortunately for him, he's safely FAR away from California. ;)

1688668744548.png


1688668809490.png


:lol::lol::poke:
 
CLAY72dart said:
I’ll explain to you how I think this build works. I’m assuming i take the entire motor apart then take the block to an engine shop for testing. Then it gets honed to 30 60 or 90 over then I buy the stroker kit corresponding to the bore then I get heads ported then it gets put back together with new parts and I run it. If I’m wrong please tell me where so I can learn. I have a 4 barrel intake and carb I would like to use a high flow water pump and other parts.
Click to expand...
@replicaracer43 - is a fella to contact on engine building.
 
273 said:
Start with what your looking to do with it, how you want perform not just with your foot in it.
The vaguer the intentions the less likely to be satisfied with the results.

Your reengineering your car the engine driveline suspension brakes tires etc.. are interconnected.
You have to figure out a game plan. 1st is knowing what your trying to accomplish.
Click to expand...

Here below is an example of someone thinking his way through a combination, not saying anything directly applies to your build, Not meant as a recipe to follow but a piece of someone redesign a engine driveline combo, just an eg.. to give you kind of an idea what I meant by come up with a gameplan.

AJ/FormS said:
I've done this swap a time or two.
I have used the stock 340 short
with 318 heads, and I have used both
a stock 318 cam, or a stock 360 2bbl cam; installed straight up.
I used a Factory cast-iron dual-plane Small-port, spreadbore intake with a Thermoquad.
This makes your 340 basically, a big-bore 318, with a magnificent bottom- end. It will pull any gears. But
If you have the A833od then you can run a lot more starter gear than what you think might be right.

I suggest a cruising rpm of not less than 2200, (because that is already pushing the ability of the factory type distributor to provide adequate cruise-timing) and with a .73 overdrive, and 26.5" rear tires, that points to 3.73s; for 2200=64mph.
However, this makes the starter gear to be; 3.73 x 3.09=11.53 which is way more than this combo needs, but it will be a lotta fun. But more importantly;
Second gear will be 3.73 x 1.67=6.23 which is perfect.

Now, there is one caveat. The CCP with the Tall pistons in there,
may be much too high to use the 318 cam; too high probably for WOT detonation-free operation, no matter what gas is in it. So you are gonna have to carefully measure the Scr, and adjust it as may be required, to get the CCP into the required window with the Ica of whatever cam you stick in there, so as to make it streetable.
But, I would try to keep the CCP as high as is possible to run the cam of your choice.
There are two or three reasons for this;
1) when the bug bites for a bigger cam, you won't have to throw away as much CCP, which, with a manual-trans, you usually don't want to do.
2) Big CCP helps make Big Fuel-economy.
3) Big CCP will increase the Low-rpm Torque, so yo don't have to slip the clutch out so long, and you can still burn ribber whenever you want to......

You may ask;
1) Why the 318 small-port heads? Answer, with 3.73s and a 1.67 Second gear ratio, 65mph will be about 5100 rpm, and the 318 heads will easily be enough.
2) Why the 318 cam? Answer, cuz it's the right cam to go 5100 rpm with, for starters, but more importantly; the specs are;
240/248/112 @.008 But that is only half the story,
in at split overlap, the specs are;
240 intake/130 compression/122 power /248 exh/20*overlap.
With this information we can figure out a few things;
1) Because the overlap is so very small, this tells us that the Headers are overkill, but you already got them, they won't hurt anything, and the inertial-tuning will still work.
2) with 130* of compression, she is gonna make a lotta cylinder-pressure in those very modest sized chambers, with pop-up pistons.
3) Normally 122* of extraction is ridiculously large. But in this case, combined with the other specs, this is gonna extract about as much energy out of the expanding gasses as will ever be possible. This means "massive" low-rpm torque, for an SBM, which makes for the possibility of extracting modern-day 4-banger type Fuel-Economy.
4) So since the CCP with the 318 cam is gonna be so huge, I have found the 360 cam to be acceptable. The new specs, in straight up, are;
252intake/123 compression/119 power/256 exh/30* overlap.
This does several things for us; notably;
The pressure will be down about 12 psi or more, helping shed some of that excess pressure. Power extraction is only 3* less, but really, it was excessive with the 318 cam anyway.
This 360 cam is almost 2 sizes bigger than the 318 cam, so the power-peak is gonna go up some 300 rpm. This wont't make much of a power increase with the 318 heads, but it will extend the operating range, at least the same 300 rpm, which will get you 70 mph@5500 in Second gear; so that's a good trade.
5) the overlap is now 30 degrees, so not a lot but I bet the headers will find it.
6) the hardest part of this marriage, IMO, is gonna be setting up the timing curves. You will need to mod every moving part in the distributor, and yur gonna need a lotta Vacuum advance, and
I highly recommend you find a dash-mounted, adjustable, timing module. or an electronically programmable distributor.

The first time I did this was in about 1975. The engine went into a 1965 V100 station wagon, with an A904. It didn't corner very well, but in a straight line, it was "btchng. Oh and, she was my DD for 2 years, and made fantastic fuel economy. I still have that engine/trans, as I sold the car without it. To this day, I still have fond memories of it; and wish I still had it, cuz with what I have learned since then, I think she would corner a lot better today.
This post, is of course, a reflection of what I might do, and in no way is it a "you-just-gotta-do-it my way, lol.

This combo with a 360 top-end, and cam that has more than 44* of overlap, will be just as much fun, but will never achieve the mpgs of either of the factory 2bbl cams. The cost of gas will never go down again, but will steadily march upwards until it becomes unafford for most of us, so I have to look ahead to buying the cheapest gas out there and have to make it work. To that end, I would target CCP of 155psi or perhaps a little less.
Click to expand...
 
That's part of R&D until you come up with final product.
 
CLAY72dart said:
I’ll explain to you how I think this build works. I’m assuming i take the entire motor apart then take the block to an engine shop for testing. Then it gets honed to 30 60 or 90 over then I buy the stroker kit corresponding to the bore then I get heads ported then it gets put back together with new parts and I run it. If I’m wrong please tell me where so I can learn. I have a 4 barrel intake and carb I would like to use a high flow water pump and other parts.
Click to expand...

take the engine apart, then take the block, main caps and heads to the machine shop. tell them what your idea is and come up with a plan together. they'll either order up the stroker kit for you, or tell you which one to order with which pistons you need. once they get the parts, they'll finish up the machine work and you can put it together or pay them to assemble the bottom end and you can button up the rest.

in the mean time, they'll inspect the heads and tell you what you may or may not need in terms of parts and repairs. or, they may suggest somebody that specializes in cylinder heads.

somewhere in the midst of this, you'll talk about cam shafts. this will lead to deciding on what your compression ratio will be and will be dictated by your desire to run pump gas, what pistons cost and any constraints due to valve clearance and camshaft selection.

the number one thing on your list should be to find a performance machine shop who you can communicate with.
 
273 said:
Here below is an example of someone thinking his way through a combination, not saying anything directly applies to your build, Not meant as a recipe to follow but a piece of someone redesign a engine driveline combo, just an eg.. to give you kind of an idea what I meant by come up with a gameplan.
Click to expand...
Thank you for this.
 
junkyardhero said:
take the engine apart, then take the block, main caps and heads to the machine shop. tell them what your idea is and come up with a plan together. they'll either order up the stroker kit for you, or tell you which one to order with which pistons you need. once they get the parts, they'll finish up the machine work and you can put it together or pay them to assemble the bottom end and you can button up the rest.

in the mean time, they'll inspect the heads and tell you what you may or may not need in terms of parts and repairs. or, they may suggest somebody that specializes in cylinder heads.

somewhere in the midst of this, you'll talk about cam shafts. this will lead to deciding on what your compression ratio will be and will be dictated by your desire to run pump gas, what pistons cost and any constraints due to valve clearance and camshaft selection.

the number one thing on your list should be to find a performance machine shop who you can communicate with.
Click to expand...
Okay I’m in the military and just moved to Portsmouth va. I guess I would be looking for a guy in that range.
 
Cuda416 said:
There's always the 451 option as well. Not much of a leap from a 383.
Click to expand...
From a 318? you gotta be kidding a 383 is a leap over a 390 stroker.
With the right head a 383 is a very formidable engine.
It depends what ya want to do.
 
fishmens67 said:
From a 318? you gotta be kidding a 383 is a leap over a 390 stroker.
With the right head a 383 is a very formidable engine.
It depends what ya want to do.
Click to expand...
I think 383/400 are perfect displacement for the 450-550 hp range puts peak hp rpm in the street strip range of 5500-6500 rpm depending on power, Plus got bore sizes that will allow the heads to breath well at those hp/rpms.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
-

Back
Top