Stroker intake question and guidance, mainly guidance.

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khuebner250

khuebner250

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So the only thing left to decide on my engine is intake manifold. Bear(bare) with me on this over asked question? This car will be 95% street driven. Maybe a 1/4 pass or autocross once in a while. But it'll mainly be a driver, cruiser and canyon carver through the mountains.

So we'll start with some specs.
'68 barracuda notchback ~3200-3400 lbs
currently 3.55 8 3/4. This may go to 3.91's in the future
42RH trans, 3000 edge converter
6,000 rpm range
414(360) 4.06 bore
4" Molnar crank & rods, Mahle pistons -16cc 1.0,1.0,2.0mm
11.04 comp
Mopar purple .557(.594 w/1.6) 252@50
1.6 rockers
Trickflow 190 heads
Holley terminator EFI

Options
1. Mopar M1. I have a stock one on hand, along with a 1" 4 hole HVH spacer. It has pretty small ports and I feel this will need to be ported and blended in order to feed the trick flow heads. It is also a spread bore and I would consider epoxying the flange and recutting to a square bore.

2. Edelbrock RPM air gap. I'd probably buy it from Hughes with a street/strip port already done. Not sure if this intake can support the head CFM? This will need the plenum divider cut in hopes that the EFI will receive a decent MAP signal. I feel this is my best performance option but my main concern is with the EFI. I've installed and had trouble with vacuum signals on dual plane intakes and distribution.

3. Trickflow. Ed at Trickflow said these 'should' be available by August. This could extend months if it doesn't go well though. Their heads kept getting pushed, so who knows. I would love to use their intake but just can't wait that long.

Obviously I'm looking for max torque and horsepower. So, I need an intake that can support the airflow that the heads need. However, not outside of my operating RPM range. So here I am...

Thoughts?
 
my best 60ft. up til now (1.57) i got with the performer rpm intake - so i think it´s a pretty good intake. The plenum divider is not a big Problem - you could use a 1/2" / 1" open / merged spacer - problem solved. With 1" spacer it fits under the Hood with a low profile air cleaner (1968 Valiant here).

Since your plan is mostly street driving i honestly think the ported dual plane with spacer will be very good. Maybe the single plane (new TF-Intake or EDE Victor for example) makes some more hp in the upper rpm-range - it´s possibly a trade off as always.

Michael
 
If you were going Carb, I'd say dual plane. The EFI gives me pause to that route though. Single plane you give up lower RPM torque, but does that "rule" remain with EFI, I don't know, plus with a stroker, you can probably afford some.
In the mountains, could you use a little heat below the carb for street driving that you would lose with an Air Gap?
 
Carb. Air gap with a tapered 4 hole spacer on that combo. No brainer.
EFI..... havent a clue. But i suspect a single plane will tune up better. Victor in that case
 
If you can wait, get the TF intake. Looks like a copy of the Strip Dominator with the carb flange corrected.

The ports on that are plenty small for your displacement. Also, I'm not sure on that converter speed. That seems awful low for that cam. It's not 1980 anymore. A good converter company can make a converter that flashes higher and still lock up and be streetable.

If you can't wait for the TF (never trust ANY automotive company on a date as they lie through their teeth) use the M1 and don't look back. At that displacement and with a much better 3.9ish gear and the correct converter you don't need any dual plane intake.


Edit: don't know squat about Edge converters. Any time I see a 3k stall I get nervous. That's barely over stock. Low stall speed kills converter cars worse than any other thing you can think of.
 
With EFI single plane for better distribution. A stroker with 3k stall, 904, light car doesn't need a dual plane IMO.
 
You have answered your own question, for the most part. If 95% will be street driving your typical RPM range would benefit from a dual plane.
The problem is whether or not an RPM Air Gap will restrict your combo. Likely it will, but so will the M1, even in ported form. The Super Victor or an Indy 360 square port would still benefit from a quality port and balance job.
No currently available intake will be perfect, but the Victor and Indy are very tall, so that's also a consideration.
I wonder if anyone has purchased an Air Gap from Hughes with their porting, and can comment on it? On their web site I see a deep port match and it's pricey.

I'll add that I am not a single plane hater at all. All my toys have run single plane intakes so far, and all carbureted mostly on the street. Properly tuned, you don't even know you're giving up a little low and mid range.
 
Last edited:
yellow rose said:
Edit: don't know squat about Edge converters. Any time I see a 3k stall I get nervous. That's barely over stock. Low stall speed kills converter cars worse than any other thing you can think of.
Click to expand...

I can't really find anyone that lists a decent stall for an OD lockup. Andre at edge said to call him, he lists a billet converter 28-3200 stall. He wants all my info to build. Hughes, PATC, Oregon all only show low stall speeds. I'm sure I can get one. I'm gettonly just getting to the trans portion of my build. I'm actually dropping my trans off with Chris from Andrews Racing Friday. Converter build will follow.
 
As the car will be driven 95% of the time on the street I would run the Air Gap with the half inch open spacer 3 inch tall air cleaner sitting on the Holley sniper. Torque is awesome and right in the driving range on the rpm . Mines 518 ftlb @ 4000rpm 423 ftlb@ 2300rpm. No need to rev the **** out of it and its hauling arse. Cam is a small solid roller C Cams XR-270R 20-742-9 . 3000 stall 3.55 rear. MT street drag radials for traction R2 compound nice and sticky !
 
Sounds like u have a really nice small block that will do the job . I have a 440/505 stroker , efi , and I vote single plain all the way with the efi ------jmo
 
I think I might bite the bullet and pick up the air gap. I think with the divider milled and combined with a 2" hvh spacer it would provide a good MAP signal for efi. Increased vacuum, torque and drivability. I always have the M1 on hand if needed. I've been going back and forth. I'm sure I'll talk myself in and out of it a few more times.

So, do I but a Hughes already ported intake. Or have Ryan at shadydell or Mike at B3 port it? Should I just port match or have the runners and plenum done also?
 
Last edited:
khuebner250 said:
I think I might bite the bullet and pick up the air gap. I think with the divider milled and combined with a 2" hvh spacer it would provide a good MAP signal for efi. Increased vacuum, torque and drivability. I always have the M1 on hand if needed. I've been going back and forth. I'm sure I'll talk myself in and out of it a few more times.

So, do I but a Hughes already ported intake. Or have Ryan at shaft deep or Mike at B3 port it? Should I just port match or have the runners and plenum done also?
Click to expand...

The cam is more of a bottom end killer than a single plane manifold ever will be.

If you ported the heads and don't port the manifold you are just giving up power and driveability.

I'm not sold on the AG as the do all, be all, end all. Most guys who switch to them and think they are better usually have other issues.
 
Good news! There is t but 1’current intake for the small block Chrysler being made that can flow the amount of air to feed the heads. All intakes will have to be ported to keep up with the heads. The only intake worthy in cfm flow would be the Indy intake. We will see how the TF intake does. It should do well since there designing it for there heads.

Other intakes that will do well unported would be really any large tunnel Ram that used to be made.
Holley Strip Dominator funnel ram or the M1/TR.

The cam duration points to a dual plane. A single plane could be used if you lost a 6-8 indeed pounds. Not joking here.

The single plane is doable. No doubt. You will loose some low end torque but gain up top. It will be a wash on the strip. I’d bet the DP would be the winner.

khuebner250 said:
So the only thing left to decide on my engine is intake manifold. Bear(bare) with me on this over asked question? This car will be 95% street driven. Maybe a 1/4 pass or autocross once in a while. But it'll mainly be a driver, cruiser and canyon carver through the mountains.

So we'll start with some specs.
'68 barracuda notchback ~3200-3400 lbs
currently 3.55 8 3/4. This may go to 3.91's in the future
42RH trans, 3000 edge converter
6,000 rpm range
414(360) 4.06 bore
4" Molnar crank & rods, Mahle pistons -16cc 1.0,1.0,2.0mm
11.04 comp
Mopar purple .557(.594 w/1.6) 252@50
1.6 rockers
Trickflow 190 heads
Holley terminator EFI

Options
1. Mopar M1. I have a stock one on hand, along with a 1" 4 hole HVH spacer. It has pretty small ports and I feel this will need to be ported and blended in order to feed the trick flow heads. It is also a spread bore and I would consider epoxying the flange and recutting to a square bore.

2. Edelbrock RPM air gap. I'd probably buy it from Hughes with a street/strip port already done. Not sure if this intake can support the head CFM? This will need the plenum divider cut in hopes that the EFI will receive a decent MAP signal. I feel this is my best performance option but my main concern is with the EFI. I've installed and had trouble with vacuum signals on dual plane intakes and distribution.

3. Trickflow. Ed at Trickflow said these 'should' be available by August. This could extend months if it doesn't go well though. Their heads kept getting pushed, so who knows. I would love to use their intake but just can't wait that long.

Obviously I'm looking for max torque and horsepower. So, I need an intake that can support the airflow that the heads need. However, not outside of my operating RPM range. So here I am...

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
 
My vote is single plane.........the argument of giving up bottom end cracks me up; what are you calling "bottom end"??.....what kind of a torque curve are you thinking about......electric motor style that has max torque at zero rpm?? Too much "bottom end" is hard to lay down in a corner, you break the tires loose, you could end up loop-de-loop and they don't have a lot of guard rails out there and canyon walls are very unforgiving.

For the record, my 360 has an M1, 557 cam with 1.6 rockers, Hughes fully ported Eddies and I never felt I was lacking 'bottom end", at times I thought about killing some of what I had so I could hook better.
 
Dual quad tunnel ram! LOL you can see the bottom of your intake valve before you set your carbs on...:popcorn:
 
JBurch said:
My vote is single plane.........the argument of giving up bottom end cracks me up; what are you calling "bottom end"??.....what kind of a torque curve are you thinking about......electric motor style that has max torque at zero rpm?? Too much "bottom end" is hard to lay down in a corner, you break the tires loose, you could end up loop-de-loop and they don't have a lot of guard rails out there and canyon walls are very unforgiving.

For the record, my 360 has an M1, 557 cam with 1.6 rockers, Hughes fully ported Eddies and I never felt I was lacking 'bottom end", at times I thought about killing some of what I had so I could hook better.
Click to expand...
A few members who have run the two intakes in 4.00 arm strokers at the track would disagree with you. Oddly enough with the cam size he has, the rpm was quicker. Though I can agree that a single plane wouldn’t be a deal killer.
j par said:
Dual quad tunnel ram! LOL you can see the bottom of your intake valve before you set your carbs on...:popcorn:
Click to expand...
Like these? LOL!
CDB97252-F0EB-4C2E-A3D4-4A9550212BAB.jpeg
6C89B46B-8101-40DD-8422-4A99529DF07D.jpeg
A1934ED4-0DCF-481D-8138-7D029CD2FAB0.jpeg
4C458638-1EDD-469C-9EB9-B44590E9663E.jpeg
 
rumblefish360 said:
A few members who have run the two intakes in 4.00 arm strokers at the track would disagree with you. Oddly enough with the cam size he has, the rpm was quicker. Though I can agree that a single plane wouldn’t be a deal killer.

Like these? LOL!
View attachment 1715335492 View attachment 1715335493 View attachment 1715335494 View attachment 1715335495
Click to expand...


If they have a 4 inch stroke and the single plane "hurt the bottom end power" they had something else wrong. Usually the wrong cam because we all love to buy off the shelf cams. Or the converter is way too tight. Or something else tune up wise.


Edit:BTW, the Pro Dominator is still the best TR you have in those pictures. Looks like a butt load of taper in that sheet metal manifold. You need taper, but if the outside is any indication of actual taper that's a lot.
 
yellow rose said:
I'm lost. What's a flame thrower for the air cleaner? You young kids have a different vocabulary than us older gents.
Click to expand...
The last picture with the twin triangular air cleaners with the foam element....that catches fire on back fires.... flame throwers....

The other pictures, only the M1 TR is mine.

On your opinion given on a single plane on a stroker, what ever..... your best bet is to talk to the people that race them. Your vast knowledge is best suited there with them.

I was just reporting what others have reported.
I myself would run the single plane. 99% of the racers here are not heads up racers but bracket racers. My wallet is to thin for heads up. Since bracket racing is just being consistent, one could run a totally screwed up combination and be a winner if they are consistent.
 
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