Stroker specific cams?

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As someone with 30 years of engine dyno testing to look back on, I can tell you that in most cases...... the Desktop Dyno likes wide lsa’s more than the engine does.
Especially when the heads are on the smallish side for the application.

In combos such as the OP’s, the “wider” lsa is usually used to facilitate some other aspect of the overall build........ that is higher on the list of important decision criteria than maximum power output.
 
As someone with 30 years of engine dyno testing to look back on, I can tell you that in most cases...... the Desktop Dyno likes wide lsa’s more than the engine does.
Especially when the heads are on the smallish side for the application.

In combos such as the OP’s, the “wider” lsa is usually used to facilitate some other aspect of the overall build........ that is higher on the list of important decision criteria than maximum power output.

Thanks for commenting here, just wondering if there is a cam that you think would work well with my combination, or a grinder that you prefer?
 
Oh and I'm gettin tired of seein people say call Shane at Crower. I like the guy. He's a good dude. He's got a lot of good input here, but I'll be a sumbitch if I can get him on the phone. Left several messages with my number. Nothin. And that was after he OFFERED to help. I'd love to let him set me up. ....and it's still going to be a bit until I can actually DO something, but still it'd be nice to know WHAT I was going to do. I've talked to Ken at Oregon a bit now, always answers the phone, always bounces email replies right back. I caint do business with someone if I caint get in touch with them.
Never heard of the guy till he posted here, i dont agree with all he says. I never use crower parts either. For me..till I know who he is and have seen what he directly developed or has built... he is no diff than whoever answers the phone at comp.
 
As someone with 30 years of engine dyno testing to look back on, I can tell you that in most cases...... the Desktop Dyno likes wide lsa’s more than the engine does.
Especially when the heads are on the smallish side for the application.

In combos such as the OP’s, the “wider” lsa is usually used to facilitate some other aspect of the overall build........ that is higher on the list of important decision criteria than maximum power output.

And you're right. It's not the best program out there, I agree. But for comparisons from one build to another, it's accurate.

Also, what all of you are missing, I am speaking in general terms, not specifically about the OP's particular combo. Regardless, I'll stand behind the wider LSA as having a flatter overall torque curve.

And yes, I am full aware YR, that the valve events dictate where the LAS falls. But it's much easier for "most" to choose the LSA and shortcut it, rather than actually put any brain power to it.
 
I have Crower Springs and I've never heard my valves float. That's what I know about them LOL. If you're lucky enough to live close to ken just go visit at his shop with one Megaton of cams everywhere and have a nice discussion on what you would like...
 
And you're right. It's not the best program out there, I agree. But for comparisons from one build to another, it's accurate.

Also, what all of you are missing, I am speaking in general terms, not specifically about the OP's particular combo. Regardless, I'll stand behind the wider LSA as having a flatter overall torque curve.

And yes, I am full aware YR, that the valve events dictate where the LAS falls. But it's much easier for "most" to choose the LSA and shortcut it, rather than actually put any brain power to it.
I think they start with a stock engine as a baseline. I built a stock 273/4 barrel and it came out to within a few ponies of the rated 235.
 
Whoever said they were the same?


I wanted to say what PRH said in post 101, but it didn't come out like that.

My point was his point. The program likes a wider LSA than most engines like.

I also never suggest buying a cam from a catalog, unless you've used it before, tested it and have proven results.

Many leave power on the table by doing that.
 
Going back to the reversion issues at lower RPM's, I gotta ask if 'more power everywhere' means more torque below 2500 RPM..... I am a bit skeptical (but sure don't know it all) and still think it is a trade-off for what you want to do, and the lobe type you want to run. Let's face it: If you are in a low cost mode and all you can afford is a lowest cost flat tappet cam and cheap springs, you're just gonna have certain lobes to pick from and if you want to emphasize real low RPM torque, then you are limited on your options. I don't see it as particularly 'wrong'.....

I don't know the Vizard tests and what they were optimized for...It's a pretty interesting topic to me. FWIW.... I have been on the shorter duration/higher lift page for a long, long time.

BTW, not of this applies not the OP... this is just the usual internet tangent LOL



2500 is about as low as I'll go on a dyno pull. No reason to go lower. I'm not one to fret about what goes on at those RPM's. It just isn't worth it. It's like the head Porter who worries about flow under about .200 lift (depending on application). I look at those numbers, but don't fall on my grinder if I loose some flow there, for the right reasons.

As for reversion, we have to discuss which reversion are we talking about?

IMO, there is very little reversion from the LSA being narrow. I have seen it. It's pretty rare. You'll know when you are getting it. It shows in the bowls. You'll see where the exhaust is going right across the seats and into the intake port.

Most of the time, that's from a poor valve job. Like when you use a radius valve job on the intake side. If you do that, you need to change the cam timing. That radius on the intake seat promotes reversion.

Reversion that kills power, makes things dirty and is a general pain in the *** is intake valve closing. That's a killer.

Did a 377 inch SBC in 1988. Had a Crane inverse roller cam, which at that time was the bees knees.

At idle, you could see the fuel stand off above the injectors at idle. If everyone had a phone back then, like today, people would be amazed. I'm sure if you look you can find something similar on YouTube today.

I noticed two things when the cam showed up (I didn't pick it). It was on a 111 LSA and the intake looked like it close too late. Wish I could remember the rest of it.

Luckily, a very close friend of the engines owner called Isky and Ron sent his idea of what should be used. It had more duration and a 108 LSA.

After 6 pulls on the dyno, the valve springs were toast. So we spent the rest of that day changing springs. Luckily, we had a set of spares of those too.

The Isky went in. No fuel stand off. It was cleaner at idle. I can't remember the barrel valve leak numbers now, but the Crane needed 3-4% more leak than the Isky did. After 20ish pulls we ended up at 645 HP at 7000ish, which for 1988 was pretty damn righteous.

That car eventually went in the 8's.

I say reversion is much more an issue of intake closing than LSA. You can also open the intake too soon...but that another discussion.
 
Ok did not know that TF heads were only shaft
HR Magnum Short block
many of us were thinking of a conversion to a mech flat tappet so ignore all the lifter size stuff
what matters is what was said on my post 79 about the torque advantages of an inverse flank roller cam- no one else takes the time to final grind and spark out with a 5" wheel
several other "inverse" series are barley inverse - as much as can be obtained with the standard 18 " wheel which is not much

? how are you getting oil to the shafts- I recommend external from the rear of the block to the back of the heads and blocking off the cam bearing oiling by rotating the bearing- get more oil to the mains and rods this way
Is your block drilled for traditional LA block oiling- early magnums were but external is easy to do
I would also oil the rocker adjuster balls or cups with pushrod oiling
I liked cups on the adjusters and ball and ball pushrods- but others disagree and I need to find out why
you have some good recent comment from YR and NM
There was a comment about low lift flow being irrelevant
It's not
It tells the grinder what low lift opening curve to use to match your exhaust pull and piston demand around TDC
Too much early opening and your flow stalls (which is just another reason short rod chevy designs are not optimum for a Mopar (ignoring the additional lifter size crutch))
Same as intake close where you are trying to maintain velocity as the valve closes
To far open as the piston comes up and flow stops and may even reverse
like YR says all valve events are important - but not at .050
Mikes program takes all this into account
cheeers
 
I wanted to say what PRH said in post 101, but it didn't come out like that.

My point was his point. The program likes a wider LSA than most engines like.

I also never suggest buying a cam from a catalog, unless you've used it before, tested it and have proven results.

Many leave power on the table by doing that.

I agree. That's why I normally only suggest camshafts I've actually run, or something VERY close to it.

And lets dispel this myth right now. You ALWAYS leave power on the table. With every single build. You simply want to minimize it for your given budget.
 
I agree. That's why I normally only suggest camshafts I've actually run, or something VERY close to it.

And lets dispel this myth right now. You ALWAYS leave power on the table. With every single build. You simply want to minimize it for your given budget.


Very true. You always leave something in the table. I'm meaning using the same dollars and not optimizing what you have.
 
Very true. You always leave something in the table. I'm meaning using the same dollars and not optimizing what you have.

I understood. But a lot of times, even that's not necessary or even wanted. Sometimes people just "want what they want".
 
I understood. But a lot of times, even that's not necessary or even wanted. Sometimes people just "want what they want".
Exactly how I wanted it, and that's exactly how it was made...
Edit: tons left on the table! I think the next time I'm going to get a little closer though...
 
Exactly how I wanted it, and that's exactly how it was made...
Edit: tons left on the table! I think the next time I'm going to get a little closer though...

But you're having FUN and that's all that matters. While other guys are askin on here about "what cam do I need?" and pullin their hair out and cryin like babies, you're out there RACING!
 
I liked cups on the adjusters and ball and ball pushrods- but others disagree and I need to find out why
I know when I fixed the geometry on my Edelbrock heads Mike from B3 recommended and helped me to change to ball and ball pushrods by supplying me with a set of cup type adjusters!
 
But you're having FUN and that's all that matters. While other guys are askin on here about "what cam do I need?" and pullin their hair out and cryin like babies, you're out there RACING!
I picked the first one against Ken's will LOL I said I wanted to be radical I want to sound like a dragster I want I want I want I want.... He said have it, it ought to be fun... It was, and too much on the street LOL
So I came in with the cam and lifters with plans to mellow this damn thing out a little. His words he was trying not to let me kill it! I'll probably keep the duration and go with a little more lift next time.. to have the cam and lifters done it's only $147 and a 20 minute drive down to talk to Ken...
 
^^^in all honesty another $147 in gaskets, break in oil, water wetter, RTV....ect....
 
Exactly how I wanted it, and that's exactly how it was made...
Edit: tons left on the table! I think the next time I'm going to get a little closer though...


This makes zero sense. You want to spend the same (really more money to fix it later) for the same or less performance?

I'll never understand this line of thinking.
 
This makes zero sense. You want to spend the same (really more money to fix it later) for the same or less performance?

I'll never understand this line of thinking.

Maybe he didn't have the money to do it that way first. Maybe he wanted it to sound nastier than the other cam he was lookin at. Maybe he wanted what he put in it to not blow the tires off off the line. What difference does it make? It's HIS. If he wants to weld eight Briggs and Stratton cams together and run those, it's his.

Thing about it, his engine built his way has beaten a lot of cars out there. I bet some were built your way.
 
As someone with 30 years of engine dyno testing to look back on, I can tell you that in most cases...... the Desktop Dyno likes wide lsa’s more than the engine does.
Especially when the heads are on the smallish side for the application.

In combos such as the OP’s, the “wider” lsa is usually used to facilitate some other aspect of the overall build........ that is higher on the list of important decision criteria than maximum power output.
:thumbsup:
 
2500 is about as low as I'll go on a dyno pull. No reason to go lower. I'm not one to fret about what goes on at those RPM's. It just isn't worth it. It's like the head Porter who worries about flow under about .200 lift (depending on application). I look at those numbers, but don't fall on my grinder if I loose some flow there, for the right reasons.

As for reversion, we have to discuss which reversion are we talking about?

IMO, there is very little reversion from the LSA being narrow. I have seen it. It's pretty rare. You'll know when you are getting it. It shows in the bowls. You'll see where the exhaust is going right across the seats and into the intake port.

Most of the time, that's from a poor valve job. Like when you use a radius valve job on the intake side. If you do that, you need to change the cam timing. That radius on the intake seat promotes reversion.

Reversion that kills power, makes things dirty and is a general pain in the *** is intake valve closing. That's a killer.

Did a 377 inch SBC in 1988. Had a Crane inverse roller cam, which at that time was the bees knees.

At idle, you could see the fuel stand off above the injectors at idle. If everyone had a phone back then, like today, people would be amazed. I'm sure if you look you can find something similar on YouTube today.

I noticed two things when the cam showed up (I didn't pick it). It was on a 111 LSA and the intake looked like it close too late. Wish I could remember the rest of it.

Luckily, a very close friend of the engines owner called Isky and Ron sent his idea of what should be used. It had more duration and a 108 LSA.

After 6 pulls on the dyno, the valve springs were toast. So we spent the rest of that day changing springs. Luckily, we had a set of spares of those too.

The Isky went in. No fuel stand off. It was cleaner at idle. I can't remember the barrel valve leak numbers now, but the Crane needed 3-4% more leak than the Isky did. After 20ish pulls we ended up at 645 HP at 7000ish, which for 1988 was pretty damn righteous.

That car eventually went in the 8's.

I say reversion is much more an issue of intake closing than LSA. You can also open the intake too soon...but that another discussion.
:thumbsup:
 
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