Suggestions for new design Aluminum Mopar SB clean slate (kind of) cylinder heads

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I think a W5 type head would be a great spot to start from. A standard intake will fit a w5 if it is redrilled to a factory pattern, so on the intake face on a new casting put the bolt holes in the factory location. The header problem could be solved on the new casting by using a magnum style port outlet. If it had to have chevy style rockers I could live with it if provisions were left in the head to use a block type shaft rocker system like w2/5 heads, or even better, big mopar on small block shafts like the victor.
An affordable small mopar head that starts at about 300 cfm and is easily ported out to 350 would do very well. the current buy in price on a 350 cfm small mopar head is about 4500 bucks.
 
bigfoot said:
I think a W5 type head would be a great spot to start from. A standard intake will fit a w5 if it is redrilled to a factory pattern, so on the intake face on a new casting put the bolt holes in the factory location. The header problem could be solved on the new casting by using a magnum style port outlet. If it had to have chevy style rockers I could live with it if provisions were left in the head to use a block type shaft rocker system like w2/5 heads, or even better, big mopar on small block shafts like the victor.
An affordable small mopar head that starts at about 300 cfm and is easily ported out to 350 would do very well. the current buy in price on a 350 cfm small mopar head is about 4500 bucks.
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Yep. Nailed it. I'd buy this on my next build without even thinking about it.
 
Mean416 said:
I think the real bottom line here is, what is the business need first, from a crate engine standpoint.

The next order of business is how do you ultimately differentiate your cylinder head against: trick flow, Edelbrock, and speed master heads. Because that's who the competition is. Why will I purchase the BPE head over those?
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I think the real question is "how does blueprint build a head that would replacing it with a trick flow, edelbrock or speed master be a downgrade"
 
I have not read through all the responses here but something similar to an RHS/Indy-X head (which are Magnum based) in aluminum would be a real good starting point. Minimum 2.02" valves with options for larger ones and like PRH said larger diameter spring pockets. Dual exhaust pattern for larger W2-style headers would be good too so you're not limited to 1 5/8 primary tubes. Maybe consult B3 Racing and have him help you design in closer-to-optimal rocker geometry. Make sure there is sufficient material to enlarge the pushrod holes if needed. Thicker decks too for milling. Come up with a CNC program for 300cfm and they'd sell.
 
Mean416 said:
I think the real bottom line here is, what is the business need first, from a crate engine standpoint.

The next order of business is how do you ultimately differentiate your cylinder head against: trick flow, Edelbrock, and speed master heads. Because that's who the competition is. Why will I purchase the BPE head over those?
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Which is kinda where everyone was going with the "W2" and W5" comments and the like. If BPE wants to really sell, their products should offer something different than the crowd. So far, they meet that challenge very well in the crate engine department. I can certainly understand not wanting to make a head that requires different intakes, exhaust and valve train options, but maybe from the suggestions of some of the things they cannot do, they might can get some ideas about something they can do that's different than the current offerings that will put them ahead of the pack.
 
diymirage said:
I think the real question is "how does blueprint build a head that would replacing it with a trick flow, edelbrock or speed master be a downgrade"
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Correct! Maybe combine things from several different excellent offerings.
 
bigfoot said:
I think a W5 type head would be a great spot to start from. A standard intake will fit a w5 if it is redrilled to a factory pattern, so on the intake face on a new casting put the bolt holes in the factory location. The header problem could be solved on the new casting by using a magnum style port outlet. If it had to have chevy style rockers I could live with it if provisions were left in the head to use a block type shaft rocker system like w2/5 heads, or even better, big mopar on small block shafts like the victor.
An affordable small mopar head that starts at about 300 cfm and is easily ported out to 350 would do very well. the current buy in price on a 350 cfm small mopar head is about 4500 bucks.
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Yeah something like that. But if they're gonna clean slate a head, they could make the head for the standard intake pattern right from the rip, right?
 
RustyRatRod said:
Yeah something like that. But if they're gonna clean slate a head, they could make the head for the standard intake pattern right from the rip, right?
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Yes, that was what I was trying to say. Standard intake pattern from the start
 
Here's what we want. A cylinder head competitive with a very good LS3 head. Can you do that?
 
bigfoot said:
I think the bolt holes would almost touch each other and w5 intakes are almost non ex
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I wondered about that. Since I'm not fortunate enough to be familiar with the W5 I didn't know. lol
 
Johnny Mac said:
Correct, aluminum only. plan is 290 ish, we have a prototype doing it. There are experts on here getting alot more out of SB mopar heads, but again the idea is to keep these mainstream, and not cross into exotic. My in house testing on the airgap imports is they scrub major HP. I'd like this to spawn a "bigger" single plane version of our 408, so needs to have LA bolts. THANK YOU for the feedback.
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I seriously took note when you mentioned some time ago that Import air gaps you tested for SB Mopar left 25 hp on the table
 
Johnny Mac said:
I have one flowing 401....but it's not the shape you want

View attachment 1716076771
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1) Are You proposing LS SBC/SBF/MagnumSBM style rockers, or actual ball-stud rockers which require guide plates? FYI, BBC rockers are closer to the stk. SBM dimensions, & common with desirable ratios.
2) If You use keyed-base pedestal-style rocker, You could easily cant the intake valves, allowing for better numbers & widening the upper port.
3) If You raise the VC rail, and cast/machine the heads to raise a std. Intake 1/4", that's a big plus, with only maybe custom china wall seals as a special part.
4) Are the plans for flat-top slugs at zero-deck, with valve reliefs? Stock Magnum slugs, or?
 
abodyjoe said:
to tbe point of being anti enthusiast.
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I remember when we formed the now pretty much defunct middle Georgia Mopar club back in the early 90s, one of the guys contacted someone at Chrysler asking permission to use the Pentastar on our newsletter. We got a firm "NO". We made the decision to do it anyway and never heard a thing.
 
Killer6 said:
1) Are You proposing LS SBC/SBF/MagnumSBM style rockers, or actual ball-stud rockers which require guide plates? FYI, BBC rockers are closer to the stk. SBM dimensions, & common with desirable ratios.
2) If You use keyed-base pedestal-style rocker, You could easily cant the intake valves, allowing for better numbers & widening the upper port.
3) If You raise the VC rail, and cast/machine the heads to raise a std. Intake 1/4", that's a big plus, with only maybe custom china wall seals as a special part.
4) Are the plans for flat-top slugs at zero-deck, with valve reliefs? Stock Magnum slugs, or?
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Thanks for the feedback, answers below.

1. scb style stud mount rockers w/guideplates. not pedistal
2. see 1
3. i do like this idea, and plan on doing it.
4. Currently we use a IC9977 which is a 23CC dish. at approx .007 in the hole. So we'll be fine, but valid point on someone wanting to use them with flat tops. I'll have to look closer at the limitations of something like the 61775 Edelbrocks. or the trickflows.
 
Johnny Mac said:
Thanks for the feedback, answers below.

1. scb style stud mount rockers w/guideplates. not pedistal
2. see 1
3. i do like this idea, and plan on doing it.
4. Currently we use a IC9977 which is a 23CC dish. at approx .007 in the hole. So we'll be fine, but valid point on someone wanting to use them with flat tops. I'll have to look closer at the limitations of something like the 61775 Edelbrocks. or the trickflows.
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Raised ports would be great if that is part of the plan. It would be even better if you could get the pushrods out of the port and plenty of meat around the ports to open them up.
 
bigfoot said:
Raised ports would be great if that is part of the plan. It would be even better if you could get the pushrods out of the port and plenty of meat around the ports to open them up.
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You guys are to wrapped up with the pushrod pinch. That’s not the problem.
 
pittsburghracer said:
You guys are to wrapped up with the pushrod pinch. That’s not the problem.
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No it isnt the majority of the problem, the lack of a shortside turn is, which raising the port helps take care of, and I hope he does. I would like to get tye pushrod pinch out to help gain port volume for big strokers.
 
bigfoot said:
No it isnt the majority of the problem, the lack of a shortside turn is, which raising the port helps take care of, and I hope he does. I would like to get tye pushrod pinch out to help gain port volume for big strokers.
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My duster (408) will run low 9.30’s maybe a high 9.28 around 140 mph so even a stock location pushrod can make enough horsepower for 90% of our members. Then we have Indy heads, W8, and W9 guys that want to go quicker. Hopefully the Edelbrock Victor comes available again but that won’t happen unless guys speak up. I think the postie would like an aluminum head (magnum based) slightly better than a cnc ported LA based Speedmaster head. This keeps the price down for the 80% guys looking for a 400-500 horsepower crate engine. If Speedmaster produced a cnc magnum head with a 2.055 valve he could grab one off the shelf and do what he does best. Build engines and ship them out. I know who I would be on the phone to.
 
And I’ve already talked to this guy letting him know if the started producing the big block Mopar Edelbrock RPM based head instead of the Victor based head they would sell 10 times more heads. I don’t run them and I know I would be in for 4-5 sets.
 
pittsburghracer said:
My duster (408) will run low 9.30’s maybe a high 9.28 around 140 mph so even a stock location pushrod can make enough horsepower for 90% of our members. Then we have Indy heads, W8, and W9 guys that want to go quicker. Hopefully the Edelbrock Victor comes available again but that won’t happen unless guys speak up. I think the postie would like an aluminum head (magnum based) slightly better than a cnc ported LA based Speedmaster head. This keeps the price down for the 80% guys looking for a 400-500 horsepower crate engine. If Speedmaster produced a cnc magnum head with a 2.055 valve he could grab one off the shelf and do what he does best. Build engines and ship them out. I know who I would be on the phone to.
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I agree with you! Your results with your heads are outstanding, your cars make power and run well. What I am hoping for is a head almost as capable as the indy, victor, and W8/9 at a reasonable price. The Indy and Victor heads are over 5k by the time you buy rockers, W8 and 9 even more. Why not have a 700 hp capable head for 3kish including rockers?
 
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