Suggestions for new design Aluminum Mopar SB clean slate (kind of) cylinder heads
- Thread starter Johnny Mac
- Start date
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B3422w5
Well-Known Member
I know a guy who ran those in a bracket car. They were fully ported by Ryan back then.
The results weren’t that impressive.
Every single small block ever produced should have had the offset intake ports. Chevy or Ford wouldda never stood a chance.
Best comment ever on FABO!!!!!
dirty white boy
50 yr old Juvenal delinquent
thay never did stand a chance till rules were imposed...DWB!
Right. And the thing is, every single open chamber production small block made was a smog head. Every dang one. There was not a "real" performance head in the bunch. Think about all the Chevy "Bow Tie" junk them boys worship and their crap got blowed to pieces with a smog headed motor. LOL
HuntedDuckV351
Well-Known Member
My cousin is running those heads on a 408 .700 lift roller. 3000 lb 69 roadrunner has been 6.13 at 111. He bought them off Bill
B3422w5
Well-Known Member
Yep, same ones. That is running good, but the heads you just bought will run that good, or better.
To me, I would go with an Indy head, back then which has/ had more potential. Which is why, along with cost for the total deal is why they never took off.
I picked on Bill back then when he went to the dark side….constantly
HuntedDuckV351
Well-Known Member
Yeah we were just talking ut those heads today....i wqs shocked at how much the bare castings cost him....He said $2500 bareYep, same ones. That is running good, but the heads you just bought will run that good, or better.
To me, I would go with an Indy head, back then which has/ had more potential. Which is why, along with cost for the total deal is why they never took off.
I picked on Bill back then when he went to the dark side….constantly
Cuda416
Well-Known Member
Any word on the OOTB flow numbers?
Nothing official until I get some 3d models printed. I'm hoping high 260's ootb. High 290's ported. I know what it takes to get a mopar sb head to 300....I'm not going to to wish in one hand.....lol rather be realistic with the shoe we are trying to fit into.
DionR
Well-Known Member
If only there was a way to 3d print something that could be run on a motor with just some minor machining.
We have Renishaw RemAM 500q printers at work, used for mostly aluminum. But only have a print volume of 10x10x13, the machine costs $250,000 and the parts require all the normal machining. Something big enough to print a head, like a GE Concept Laser X, they're over $1,000,000.
DionR
Well-Known Member
It was kind of a joke. Just be cool someday to just order up a cylinder head and have it 3D printed down the road so you didn't have to cast and then ship it.
It was kind of a joke. Just be cool someday to just order up a cylinder head and have it 3D printed down the road so you didn't have to cast and then ship it.
I thought that might be the case, but technology changes so fast, it seemed like a good opportunity to share whats available these days.
I've been trying to get access to the renishaws for exactly that kind of thing, a 3d printed intake. It would have to be in multiple pieces and welded, no luck so far. Cost to operate is too high
Cuda416
Well-Known Member
it's not 3d printing, but damn impressive. Do what this guy does, lost foam casting. Check out his more current efforts for some really impressive stuff.
Lost foam casting.... WOW....
gzig5
Well-Known Member
For the print volume restriction you might be able to split the head in half and then connect water jacket externally? I just bought a Bambu 3D printer that will do a 10" cube and if I ever get to the point of having a head flow machine, I'll be trying to model up some different port, bowl, and chamber shapes. But my CAD competency needs a lot of improvement first. Unfortunately the best I can do is some carbon fiber reinforced filiment, nothing in metal.
I don't want to get the thread too far off track, but that guy sets the bar so high. We should all strive to reach that level of work.
What is needed for any head to be sought after in the ability to be ported out further than most would expect.
Having the metal in the roof, (common) walls and short side to carve away is the key to future sales when the ability to port it out to the high heavens becomes known.
This was a problem with factory heads and some after market heads. In example the Edelbrock head ports out very good but the Speedmaster has metal in the places to spare that the Edelbrock doesn’t.
The Crysler/MP W2 & W5 port out really well but IMO, suffer on low lift flow. I can’t answer why exactly. Sorry in that one. The W5, suffered from crap unweldable aluminum but if casted well, people have reported flow in the 330’s+. I have a set of W2’s that went 323 cfm.
The hardest part is the pushrod pinch limitation of stock heads and the expense of gear to equip the head if it is moved. Such is the trials and tribulations of a head geared more towards racing than a replacement head that can perform.
Cuda416
Well-Known Member
Interestingly enough, one could actually custom build (it's not that hard, I've built desktop units from scratch) a 3d printer large enough to print a cylinder head. Then, using PLA and the minimum amount of infill required to keep the shape, use "lost pla" casting.
Either have someone take a mold of a really good set of ports, or model completely new ones, then base the overall design on the ports.
With lost PLA, the end result is very similar to lost foam in that the PLA is basically vaporized. All said and done, I'm unsure of how practical casting a large item using PLA and hoping it all burns away is. Something that large might simply be too large, HOWEVER, doing a section of a head, as in one cyl worth, might very well be possible and allow for flow testing as well as preliminary evaluation of a design in the physical space.
Either have someone take a mold of a really good set of ports, or model completely new ones, then base the overall design on the ports.
With lost PLA, the end result is very similar to lost foam in that the PLA is basically vaporized. All said and done, I'm unsure of how practical casting a large item using PLA and hoping it all burns away is. Something that large might simply be too large, HOWEVER, doing a section of a head, as in one cyl worth, might very well be possible and allow for flow testing as well as preliminary evaluation of a design in the physical space.
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Newbomb Turk
Well-Known Member
How much down is the low lift flow in your W5’s??
As valve speed goes up and lift goes up low lift flow (with the exception of overlap) becomes less critical.
You can’t use a bad valve job and kill low lift flow and expect to make good power.
Also, at overlap the port pressure is much higher than 28 inches of WC. So the port may look bad (or maybe weak or weaker is a better term) at 28 inches but at 45 or 60 inches or even 100 inches if your bench can do the last two may prove out that the low lift flow numbers aren’t as bad as they look.
The flow numbers have been well photographed and posted here.
Newbomb Turk
Well-Known Member
lol you know I can never find stuff like that on here but I’ll look and see if I get lucky.
Pittsburghtacer has always ridiculed my W5 & W2 bashing low lift flows against his stuff and other heads.
I have often called him out on this and challenged him to do better but he has always said “No Thanks” to task. I asked him if he ever has ported a set of W2 or W5 heads and he said no.
I also said to him I have a bare set if you feel like porting them to do better, then I’ll allow you to have at them, no worries.
IMO, if you don’t know how the head is, what’s the point of bashing other people’s work?
If anybody has any issue with the numbers or what can be done to the W2 or W5 head, please consult the head porters that have done the work. They would be;
W5 head - Brett Miller
W2 head - Charlie Servidio - Whom never ported a W2 or any W series head before and he found 323 on his bench.
I’m not going to discuss this W2 & W5 stuff anymore since I feel it has been beat to death in my head and I am OK with what it is.
Also, many people on here, most not even head porters with the majority admitting they never ported a head before like to throw in there two cents and it hairs and run the mouth at things I can not talk about since it’s a lack of knowledge on my behalf even though I did get an education on it, I find (and have found while also being agreed with) that bench racing flow benches is not a good way to compare things even though there is splitting hairs on that.
Again, more people here have something to say about flow bench testing and do not own one nor have they ever operated one and can not explain what is what and why is why and the variances that occurs and occurred.
I’m not discussing my W series heads anymore.
If you think they suck, then OK they suck.
OK, off the soap box. I’m done.
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