It might be time for some to move up to big block or over to the LS forum. lol
Suggestions for new design Aluminum Mopar SB clean slate (kind of) cylinder heads
- Thread starter Johnny Mac
- Start date
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I don’t want nothin to do with no belly button LS. They just dont appeal to me. They can make 5,000 hp. Cool. I like my mopars.
Height is really not the solution, although it helps some. To really work well you need the port centered with the valve stem, and the only way to do that is with an offset rocker.
I am surprised someone hasn't put LS heads on a SBM yet since people love to mix and match parts in the hot rod world.
Tom
Like your red line drawing. I like it. But what does that do for the intake. It’s a snowballing problem. The deal, or was since its history now. Back when Chrysler went to the Magnum head, a short time later, the HEMI head was just coming out of prototype production and used by Scott Geofferion (sp?) in the new race cars. I had the good fortune to meet Scott and helped push the new HEMI car in Virgina. Dimwittie (sp?)
Me and my then best friend spoke with Scott shortly and he told us a secret, the HEMI was going to come back.
So messing with the aging LA/Magnum platform was over and the new hemi would take its place. And everything about the small block has changed over to the modern configuration. A totally different ball game. Right there and then, I knew the old school small blocks we play with today were over and just a matter of time before the MP catalog would no longer carry the parts like they used to do.
Raising the port without a pushrod being moved over is a good idea since you can get more port in a more favorable position. But this causes chaos with headers. Also, moving the intake upwards also causes chaos with dedicated intakes like the W2-W7.8.9.
An expense many cry & ***** at.
So your idea is a traveled path in a sense. Improve the head without the W head problems is really a limited game. As well as a limited crowd. This adds a great deal of expense.
( @Johnny Mac )
If the BP head has the meat to move the pushrod over if one desires and be meaty enough to port high into the roof and side walls, like the Speedmaster vs the Edelbrock or the W heads, it’ll be a big winner.
thesiren74
Well-Known Member
Why? We have a Hemi.
Newbomb Turk
Well-Known Member
Newbomb Turk
Well-Known Member
Yup. So is the G3 hemi. IIRC the oil pump is up front on both of them too.
Neither is a good thing.
DionR
Well-Known Member
I think the mods should strip all the complaining over the last couple of days out of this thread.
Someone is bringing something to market that is better than we have available now (I have faith it will be) and we've never seen it to even evaluate it. And yet people are all over how it will be junk and talking about the LS and BBC's and complaining about how it wasn't done their way.
I suggest everyone wanting an offset rocker cylinder head go design their own and show us how is is done. Make sure to figure out how to make that work with a stud mount rocker, too. And list the costs to make that happen so we can see how it helps us avoid the "Mopar Tax".
Someone is bringing something to market that is better than we have available now (I have faith it will be) and we've never seen it to even evaluate it. And yet people are all over how it will be junk and talking about the LS and BBC's and complaining about how it wasn't done their way.
I suggest everyone wanting an offset rocker cylinder head go design their own and show us how is is done. Make sure to figure out how to make that work with a stud mount rocker, too. And list the costs to make that happen so we can see how it helps us avoid the "Mopar Tax".
Newbomb Turk
Well-Known Member
DionR
Well-Known Member
I bet they sell a ton of them. Maybe most of them will be on top of BP engines after they are able to bring the cost of the Mopar crate motor down but I bet a fair amount get sold separately.
Newbomb Turk
Well-Known Member
What are you talking about? No one is saying they won't sell. BPE is building a head for their engines and they will sell them separately. Of course they will sell them.
What some of us are saying is this head isn't a needle mover in the performance market. It's a stock head with stud rockers. To call it a performance head would be at best incorrect.
But they will sell a lot of them. That's what the "market" wants.
It's more competition in the main segment of the market 450-550 hp which is always good, it probably makes little financial sense to cater to the 650-850 hp crowd, if someone could make a relatively cheap (TF price) stock style head for the next step up 600-650 hp (330 ish) would probably do well though.
DionR
Well-Known Member
Just responding to the comment below.
Did you mean something other than that they won't be able to sell any? Because that's how I read it.
Newbomb Turk
Well-Known Member
My bad. I meant IF BPE built a head for offset rockers they’d never sell them. They’d use them on their stuff but they’d kill the head sales by probably 98% with an offset rocker.
So I get what BPE is doing and it makes perfect sense for them.
But it’s not a head that changes the market.
Will this head be cast in the U.S.
Will it be as good as a Trick Flow cylinder head. This is where the current bar is set
Competing with a Chinese made product should be quality over cost.
There's enough junk on the market
Will it be as good as a Trick Flow cylinder head. This is where the current bar is set
Competing with a Chinese made product should be quality over cost.
There's enough junk on the market
Make them W2 heads but affordable.
That's what I'm talking about. We are talking about a blank canvas so why keep the design flaws of the LA head. Chevy rockers don't "fix" much. As pointed out it mainly serves to let BP inventory and maintain a single rocker set for two makes of crate engine.
Honestly, I know the BP head is going to be just another thing I pass over for a bare set of Speedmasters on Black Friday cause they're getting ported anyway. I'm not going to increase my head budget for anything that isn't hands down better than all the other OEM aluminum design. I'll just go to a different platform like the G3.
Honestly, I know the BP head is going to be just another thing I pass over for a bare set of Speedmasters on Black Friday cause they're getting ported anyway. I'm not going to increase my head budget for anything that isn't hands down better than all the other OEM aluminum design. I'll just go to a different platform like the G3.
Yes, much narrower counter weight though.
Helps big time with windage
Dude came in here askin for suggestions. Period.
Please explain why a front mounted oil pump is not good vs rear in pan pump ?
A cylinder head that doesn't need a valve job and resurfaced ootb
Yeah, trick flows are the only heads I've seen like that for valve job and springs set up exactly as they say.
Surfaces are usually okay, even on $200 Chinese SBC heads but they usually have large chunks of aluminum shavings inside the cooling passages like e-street Edelbrock they need further inspection lol
DionR
Well-Known Member
Dude was also asked for, and gave, an update and it is way past the suggestion stage. Period.
Everything after that isn't a suggestion, it's crying because it doesn't fit their mold.
Maybe so, but they have a point. It's not different than any other offering. It'll sell, but it doesn't offer anything different from other offerings. You remember the "New" Dodge Darts they made a little while back? Same thing. That's why they didn't last. They offered nothing any other cat in their class already had. That's not complaining, that's just the truth.
DionR
Well-Known Member
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