I guess that remains to be seen. When we see some flow numbers, we'll know how "competitive" they are, right?
Suggestions for new design Aluminum Mopar SB clean slate (kind of) cylinder heads
- Thread starter Johnny Mac
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Newbomb Turk
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NC Engine Builder
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2 different companies getting confused here
#1 is original poster BPE (Blueprint engines)
#2 is BPE (Bloomer performance) Rod bloomer
#1 is original poster BPE (Blueprint engines)
#2 is BPE (Bloomer performance) Rod bloomer
You are talking about "BPE" Bloomer Performance Engineering. Others are talking "BPE" Blue Print Engines
We've gotten a little haywire, but I'll say this. It's impossible to make everyone happy. I'm going to do what I think is right for the company, and 95% of the world. If one of our customers wants to make over 600HP (STREETABLE), then we sell the gen III Hemi.
If you want a 600HP SBM, then you'd have more money in doing that, than a hemi. Especially in streetable trim. as the owner of a 600 HP "Street" (ISH) dart...Trust me, i know.
My flow numbers on my personal green dart in my avatar, were 283 @ 700 CFM (4.030 bore), and I made 620 crank HP, and run 10.20's on a regular basis at 3200 lbs. Those were hand ported by Total Engine Airflow (Literally a subsidy of summit/trickflow, in the same building in Stow).
Odds are if you truly want a W2, P5, yada yada, Then you probably aren't shopping BluePrint Engines for a small block mopar, nor are you looking at our heads. Would it be nice if they flowed 310 OOTB. of course, but if they took a non standard intake manifold, non standard headers, and $1300 rockers, we'd alienate the 95% of our regular customers that aren't looking to spend 12K on a longblock, or don't want 3K in customer headers/intake/rockers, etc. Hell if you're doing that, we'll talk Gen III.
To recap the original post, there's a window we have to fit these into. Ya'll are welcome to keep chatting
but i posted a few pages back what performance and practical and beneficial changes the BluePrint heads will have. Sorry that some of you will miss out on getting out a tig welder and making an intake manifold I Joke, I joke... but seriously, if they can support 600 horse, the masses can reuse their headers. We get the intake pattern back to LA, the rockers are $200, not $1400. I think the masses win.
all jokes aside, I just want everyone to remember, i'm one of you, i'm trying to support the community. if i developed a badass 360 cfm head, and sold 12 a year. what good did i do anyone? if i lower the price of our engines by $800, and sell heads as good as or better than most other street heads out there, and don't marry you to a $1000 set of rockers, and you can reuse your super victor or airgap intake...then awesome. If you still don't like me, well then...I have a dog and 2 cats that like me just fine lol
If you want a 600HP SBM, then you'd have more money in doing that, than a hemi. Especially in streetable trim. as the owner of a 600 HP "Street" (ISH) dart...Trust me, i know.
My flow numbers on my personal green dart in my avatar, were 283 @ 700 CFM (4.030 bore), and I made 620 crank HP, and run 10.20's on a regular basis at 3200 lbs. Those were hand ported by Total Engine Airflow (Literally a subsidy of summit/trickflow, in the same building in Stow).
Odds are if you truly want a W2, P5, yada yada, Then you probably aren't shopping BluePrint Engines for a small block mopar, nor are you looking at our heads. Would it be nice if they flowed 310 OOTB. of course, but if they took a non standard intake manifold, non standard headers, and $1300 rockers, we'd alienate the 95% of our regular customers that aren't looking to spend 12K on a longblock, or don't want 3K in customer headers/intake/rockers, etc. Hell if you're doing that, we'll talk Gen III.
To recap the original post, there's a window we have to fit these into. Ya'll are welcome to keep chatting
but i posted a few pages back what performance and practical and beneficial changes the BluePrint heads will have. Sorry that some of you will miss out on getting out a tig welder and making an intake manifold I Joke, I joke... but seriously, if they can support 600 horse, the masses can reuse their headers. We get the intake pattern back to LA, the rockers are $200, not $1400. I think the masses win.all jokes aside, I just want everyone to remember, i'm one of you, i'm trying to support the community. if i developed a badass 360 cfm head, and sold 12 a year. what good did i do anyone? if i lower the price of our engines by $800, and sell heads as good as or better than most other street heads out there, and don't marry you to a $1000 set of rockers, and you can reuse your super victor or airgap intake...then awesome. If you still don't like me, well then...I have a dog and 2 cats that like me just fine lol
Newbomb Turk
Well-Known Member
We've gotten a little haywire, but I'll say this. It's impossible to make everyone happy. I'm going to do what I think is right for the company, and 95% of the world. If one of our customers wants to make over 600HP (STREETABLE), then we sell the gen III Hemi.
If you want a 600HP SBM, then you'd have more money in doing that, than a hemi. Especially in streetable trim. as the owner of a 600 HP "Street" (ISH) dart...Trust me, i know.
My flow numbers on my personal green dart in my avatar, were 283 @ 700 CFM (4.030 bore), and I made 620 crank HP, and run 10.20's on a regular basis at 3200 lbs. Those were hand ported by Total Engine Airflow (Literally a subsidy of summit/trickflow, in the same building in Stow).
Odds are if you truly want a W2, P5, yada yada, Then you probably aren't shopping BluePrint Engines for a small block mopar, nor are you looking at our heads. Would it be nice if they flowed 310 OOTB. of course, but if they took a non standard intake manifold, non standard headers, and $1300 rockers, we'd alienate the 95% of our regular customers that aren't looking to spend 12K on a longblock, or don't want 3K in customer headers/intake/rockers, etc. Hell if you're doing that, we'll talk Gen III.
To recap the original post, there's a window we have to fit these into. Ya'll are welcome to keep chatting
all jokes aside, I just want everyone to remember, i'm one of you, i'm trying to support the community. if i developed a badass 360 cfm head, and sold 12 a year. what good did i do anyone? if i lower the price of our engines by $800, and sell heads as good as or better than most other street heads out there, and don't marry you to a $1000 set of rockers, and you can reuse your super victor or airgap intake...then awesome. If you still don't like me, well then...I have a dog and 2 cats that like me just fine lol
Nothings haywire except the guys who think this will be a game changing head.
It’s not. It’s a head to fill your need. Nothing wrong with that either. As long as e don’t say the head will even put a dent in the market.
Depends what you call a game changer, before TF, Edelbrock was the main choice and got most people 450-475 hp ootb then TF came along and getting similar builds 525-550 hp, even if these heads can up the hp even a little bit (25 + hp) or same power with less cost or both to me be a bit of a game changer.
Head game comparison, cfm setting the price.
People paying for cfm vs cfm …
People paying for cfm vs cfm …
I agree, that’s a EZ button fun time.
On a good running short block, swap heads, intake and a cam over and your in pretty good shape.
Agreed. As a business owner myself, battling to get every scrap of revenue possible, it's gotta make good business sense.
If the only thing that your heads do is offer a good alternative and a great cost point to improve your crate engine offerings then that's a win in itself, and if anything we'd all understand that and appreciate your continued support of the hobby.
If you're actually seeking to bring standalone head packages to market though, they need to differentiate in some way against what's out there already (SM, Edelbrock, TF). There's plenty of room to differentiate because frankly the bar has been set so low for so long. TF is the current standard bearer, but you're right, with an expensive set of rockers required, it's a non starter for a bunch of guys.
So I think what guys really want to know is...how will your heads improve against what's already available?
(If this is already listed somewhere forgive me... it's hard to dissect these threads sometimes)
cookietruck
Well-Known Member
I think he said he was shooting for 290cfm out of the box which is TF territory and 40cfm better than speedmaster or edelbrock.
Also a 58cc chamber (going off of memory) so that is another option for people to build a different compression ratio.
Also a 58cc chamber (going off of memory) so that is another option for people to build a different compression ratio.
Cuda416
Well-Known Member
And lets not forget the use of inexpensive chuby style rockers.
No thanks! I’ll take the better shaft system that came stock.
Cuda416
Well-Known Member
I'm not saying its better just a lower cost of entry .
Lower cost is great. But now it’s a **** rocker system by compare .
You just told me you want your MoPar to run **** inferior rockers. Pay for a **** set up because your cheap, get a **** ……
Whatever bro! Your part of the problem
Time for you to purchase a Chevy.
Cuda416
Well-Known Member
Ok tough guy. Go complain somewhere else and step away from your crack pipe. Lol.
New white paper.
Not looking for an argument, but we have 900 hp engines using stud rockers.
So if you were looking to build a 500 hp engine, you'd spend $1000 extra just to say " I don't habe chevy style rockers"?
I'm not even being sarcastic, I'm genuinely asking.
No tough guy here. But you seem to want to overcome your crying about your poverty status by making the weak *** post.
I’m not complaining, YOU ARE.
Obviously, you and 273 are commingling in a pool of Green jello together smoking what you think I am.
No worries my man! OK, I’ll leave you with;
One day a good friend of mine, a die hard Chevy guy says to me he wants to upgrade his stroker small block tunnel ram Pro Street Chevelle. Truly a no joke car capable of low 10’s. He says to me he is considering upgrading the valve train to a rocker arm in a bar set up.
So I ask him why he did t start with a MoPar to begin with because that set up comes stock from the factory.
He did t talk to me for 3 days.
A thicker hardened bar with a properly designed rocker arm that has good geometry will step all over a wobbly set up like Chevy has. Of course their is nothing wrong with making use of an inferior system dispite the amount of HP it’s on top of and with a little addition of a girdle, it does get better, but is still inferior to the way Chrysler did it. Buick did it, etc…
BPE will do what BPE does and what ever you do is what ever will be cost effective with the most financial return. Sorry, I see corporate getting into counting beans, not what is actually better, stringer and last longer. I see what ever makes BPE the most money being brought to production.
Idiots, like above, like cost savings not actual performance and what is actually better on all fronts. These morons are,,, well, idiot morons. Even better that you read again what he wrote to me as if I complained! LMAO!!!
TTYL Johnny Mac. Have a good one buddy.
I can understand where you opinion derrives from. No problem with that. Part of the reason we shifted away from shaft rockers was the ones available on the aftermarket had constant issues with harness of the shafts, and/or geometry. So just another side to the coin. Some pretty tough engines out there with studs or pedestal mount rockers. No worries! Thanks for the view point.
As always a pleasure.
I missed that’s a done deal and I’m not disputing that a Chevy style rocker arm isn’t capable as others may believe I do.
Cuda416
Well-Known Member
I am literally laughing my *** off at how triggered you got about me agreeing with the use of stud mounted rockers for this new head design.
If you actually read anything from the get go... ahh, maybe you don't read so fast, I'll type slower.... This head was designed with a budget in mind. I'll say it again and t y p e r e a l l y s l o w, if you need, I can include a bouncing ball so you can sing along.
This head was designed to provide an increased measure of performance, while allowing for some lower cost options regarding the rockers. If that was still too fast for you, just say so and I'll go over it again.
I am shocked someone would not give you the time of day... Actually I'm not, go figure.
Wow, this just speaks volumes.... LOL. I make a comment about agreeing the rocker choice was a good one to get people into MoPars in a more budget friendly way and you extrapolate things that don't exist. Speaking of that, you might take some time our of your keyboard warrior time and go re-read my original response to you. Read it several times and you just might notice that it was a direct and not so subtle example of coming up with things that don't exist. I won't hold my breath, reading comprehension seems to be lost on you.
The biggest reason I am literally laughing as I type this though is your willingness to immediately get on your knees and roll over for the person/company responsible for producing these shaft-less (maybe there is where things hit too close to home for you?) heads, right after showing your inner *** hat by jumping all over someone for agreeing with him.
Now, to re-cap, and I'm still typing slow....
Nowhere did I say a stud mounted rocker was superior, or even equivalent to a shaft mount. There is a reason stud mounted systems use girdles (maybe you do too...?) and companies like Jesel sell rocker systems to overcome the limitations after all.
What I did, was agree with a design element and business decision that just might bring the younger crowd in to keep things alive for another 50 years instead of giving way completely to the tuner bolt on bull **** that most of us legitemately loathe. But no, you stay strong in the ways of "weak ***" post policing, though I still think it just went way over your head.
At the end of the day, I'm sure you have something other than stupid responses to posts that had nothing to do with you to attend to, but at this point it doesn't really matter to me. I'm sorry if your mommy or daddy slapped you around with a sack of chevy rockers as a child, but go take it out on someone else. I don't have any more time for your bullshit.
Have a blessed day....
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