The "Throw Away 318"

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I think we got a little off track here. Something about a 360 throwing a rod and then building a workable 318. When you build a motor (any motor), you need a plan. without going into a plan book here, I just want to put my two cents on the above mention 318. I would not install a High Volume oil pump with a stock pan. You can run the pump dry and throw a rod. Sounds liken he is on the way of doing the same again.

Thanks for the comment regarding the initial post. I went with the HV pump #1 cause I had one and #2 without knowing the internal quality of the engine I thought it might make up for the increased tolerances inside a possible worn out bottom end. I will make sure not to rev it out real high just for that reason. And it seems to be played out by 5000 rpms anyway!

Cley
 
Summary for those that don't read or desire to comprehend??:
Some people have a 318 in hand and not a 340 or 360 and/$$ for such.
318s are proven good and durable engines, been that way for many decades.
The 318 can serve many purposes and can be made to make power to suit many needs.
End of :lol:summary.

Duhh...:rofl:
 
For a couple years now, I have been deep into building an aluminum headed 360 for my Duster. Long story short after 5 minutes of cam break in there is a hole in the oil pan and undetermined damage in the crank case. Maybe I’ll figure it out this winter.

So, what do I do now? I can’t go all summer without my Duster! That is not an option for me. I had an old 78 318 sitting in the corner with no purpose in life. The old “Throw away 318”! I think it used to be good! Don’t really remember. It hadn’t been in a running vehicle forever! Hell let’s do it!

So, up on the engine stand she goes for a quick scrub up. I didn’t even paint it. It got a Summit K-6901 cam kit 218/228 @50, 441/441 lift on a 114 LSA. It got a Edelbrock Performer 318/360 intake because that’s what works with my AC compressor brackets. It got a Melling HV oil pump with matching distributor drive shaft and a new oil pickup and pan because I didn’t have any car stuff that wasn’t for a 360. Between what I had and what I bought I dropped about 500 bucks on the old “Throw away 318” just hoping for the best.

Well I put it together, dropped it into the car and man, I am super impressed with it for what it is! It doesn’t have great hot idling oil pressure but still has about 10lbs at 800 rpm (180* temp).

With the 4.10 rear gear and the 2.70 first gear in the A-500 it is a blast to drive around town It’s certainly better than the old wore out 360 with the wrong cam that that I had last year. I have been very nice to it so far, but It seems like it might run out of steam at RPMs over 5000. With the tiny valves that’s probably no surprise. I will drive it like it is for this year and maybe next year. Not sure on the fate of the whole 360 program now that this is so much fun and such a sweetheart to cruise. I will take it to the track and see what times it runs, and I am curious as to what kind of fuel economy it might get. It runs about 2100rpms at 65mph with the OD on. I picked up a NOS cheater plate and the parts to go with it a while back. Maybe I will try a 100 shot on this motor, Not sure yet!

I am very interested in what this engine might do with new rings and bearings, home head clean up and the ever-controversial swapping of the pistons side to side like Uncle Tony suggests. It would be a fun side by side comparison. I guess I’ll see how the motor works out in the long run. I have 800kms (500 miles) on it so far and things seem good. I did notice some oil by the breather on the drivers side valve cover, I hope there isn’t too much blow by pressuring up the crank case. I’m going to look into that tomorrow.

Cley
View attachment 1715752750
Right away I thought," did you forget to torque a rod cap. My brother did that on a Volvo P1800 years ago when someone arrived with a box of browns. Knocked the rod out the side of the block. Pieces on the floor. Dad helped after that. They took the block and pieces to a welding shop where they brazed the pieces back in place. It was a low stress area so no worries. New rod and grind the rod journals.
I worked at a service station in a small town. The farm boys with F150 trucks with the 400 engine would come in and ask me to put an oil pump in. The oil light would flicker at warm idle at stop signs. I would check the oil pump and none had appreciable wear. The rod and main bearings wear copper all the way around. These engines all had about 100k miles, so I would poke at the timing chain from below and naturaly they were done. So I would do up an estimate and phone them for authorization. Now the Cleveland Ford engines are known for a poor oil system, which explains the bearings.Cam bearings were probably showing wear also, but a bearing rollin and new double roller timing set and they ran like new. Every owner complained because I did not put an oil pump in. I said they should drive it for a few days and if they still thought I should put an oil pump in that if they paid for the pump, I would install it for no labor cost. Never had to remove the oilpan to put a pump in. With your 10PSI oil pressure, I would be concerned about worn bearings. If the bearings are worn too much oil gets flung off the bearings. It may flood the rings and burn oil or with windage get oil up to the breather.
 
That is awesome! I love this thread especially with the growing number of 318 hate threads this one is perfect! Iv always loved 318s and this is exactly why they are always trusty and reliable even if they have been on an engine stand for God knows how long !
Sorry about the 360 tho that really sucks it blew!
The problem 318 suffer from besides smaller displacement is intake lift, especially after emission regs hit. Ford and GM on their bread and butter engines did the same thing, intake lift short by 0.050". Ford 302, Chev 305 and Mopar 318. When Ford and Chev brought out their HO 302 and 305, they put 350 cams in.
I had a 1982 Blazer 2WD with 305 4 barrel and 700R4. 15MPG, low vaccum and it shift cycled in and out of OD. I bought an RV cam with 214/224 duration at .050 lift and .420 lift. Intake lift was about .070 more than stock. Al.ost totally eliminated the shift cycling and mileage improved to 19MPG. Everyone says the 305 Chev is a toilet engine also.
 
For a couple years now, I have been deep into building an aluminum headed 360 for my Duster. Long story short after 5 minutes of cam break in there is a hole in the oil pan and undetermined damage in the crank case. Maybe I’ll figure it out this winter.

So, what do I do now? I can’t go all summer without my Duster! That is not an option for me. I had an old 78 318 sitting in the corner with no purpose in life. The old “Throw away 318”! I think it used to be good! Don’t really remember. It hadn’t been in a running vehicle forever! Hell let’s do it!

So, up on the engine stand she goes for a quick scrub up. I didn’t even paint it. It got a Summit K-6901 cam kit 218/228 @50, 441/441 lift on a 114 LSA. It got a Edelbrock Performer 318/360 intake because that’s what works with my AC compressor brackets. It got a Melling HV oil pump with matching distributor drive shaft and a new oil pickup and pan because I didn’t have any car stuff that wasn’t for a 360. Between what I had and what I bought I dropped about 500 bucks on the old “Throw away 318” just hoping for the best.

Well I put it together, dropped it into the car and man, I am super impressed with it for what it is! It doesn’t have great hot idling oil pressure but still has about 10lbs at 800 rpm (180* temp).

With the 4.10 rear gear and the 2.70 first gear in the A-500 it is a blast to drive around town It’s certainly better than the old wore out 360 with the wrong cam that that I had last year. I have been very nice to it so far, but It seems like it might run out of steam at RPMs over 5000. With the tiny valves that’s probably no surprise. I will drive it like it is for this year and maybe next year. Not sure on the fate of the whole 360 program now that this is so much fun and such a sweetheart to cruise. I will take it to the track and see what times it runs, and I am curious as to what kind of fuel economy it might get. It runs about 2100rpms at 65mph with the OD on. I picked up a NOS cheater plate and the parts to go with it a while back. Maybe I will try a 100 shot on this motor, Not sure yet!

I am very interested in what this engine might do with new rings and bearings, home head clean up and the ever-controversial swapping of the pistons side to side like Uncle Tony suggests. It would be a fun side by side comparison. I guess I’ll see how the motor works out in the long run. I have 800kms (500 miles) on it so far and things seem good. I did notice some oil by the breather on the drivers side valve cover, I hope there isn’t too much blow by pressuring up the crank case. I’m going to look into that tomorrow.

Cley
View attachment 1715752750
 
Right away I thought," did you forget to torque a rod cap. My brother did that on a Volvo P1800 years ago when someone arrived with a box of browns. Knocked the rod out the side of the block. Pieces on the floor. Dad helped after that. They took the block and pieces to a welding shop where they brazed the pieces back in place. It was a low stress area so no worries. New rod and grind the rod journals.
I worked at a service station in a small town. The farm boys with F150 trucks with the 400 engine would come in and ask me to put an oil pump in. The oil light would flicker at warm idle at stop signs. I would check the oil pump and none had appreciable wear. The rod and main bearings wear copper all the way around. These engines all had about 100k miles, so I would poke at the timing chain from below and naturaly they were done. So I would do up an estimate and phone them for authorization. Now the Cleveland Ford engines are known for a poor oil system, which explains the bearings.Cam bearings were probably showing wear also, but a bearing rollin and new double roller timing set and they ran like new. Every owner complained because I did not put an oil pump in. I said they should drive it for a few days and if they still thought I should put an oil pump in that if they paid for the pump, I would install it for no labor cost. Never had to remove the oilpan to put a pump in. With your 10PSI oil pressure, I would be concerned about worn bearings. If the bearings are worn too much oil gets flung off the bearings. It may flood the rings and burn oil or with windage get oil up to the breather.
 
You're coming to the same conclusion I am building my 64 Dart for. WE don't need race cars for cruising, just something that drives well and looks like we want to be seen in. Working on that plan we can afford to put miles on our babies.
 
Well I got about 500 bucks in mine. Don't get me wrong the BP 408 is great but sometimes a guy can just deal with what he has sitting around.
Like ****, I'm kinda sick of the thought that we should leave our cars in the ******* garage until we can have someone else build us the ultimate ******* 408. Sometimes hot rodding is about what you can build yourself with the time, cash and parts available. That's where the "Throw away 318" comes in.
Rant over!
Cley
Preach
 
You're coming to the same conclusion I am building my 64 Dart for. WE don't need race cars for cruising, just something that drives well and looks like we want to be seen in. Working on that plan we can afford to put miles on our babies.

I totally agree! However I do like to run mine at the track. Now that being said, racing a slow car and doing what you can to make a slow car as fast as it can be for what it is, is alot of fun! And definitely cheaper than trying to be the fastest out there!

Cley
 
They always say, driving a slow car fast is much more fun than driving a fast car slow. Or not driving it at all.
 
Cley, I too would just run the 318 till you find time and money to redo the 360. The 360's thrown rod ate the crank too.

So just keep the 360 block and buy a complete crank rolling kit (Scat or such) that is balanced. Then over bore the 360 block to suit the kit.

Even the trash GM 307 is a good low power utility engine.
Would I try to build a GM 307 out to 350 HP? NO!!!
 
But the 10 PSI at idle hot is not good. Even with the HV pump you should see 50 PSI running a 50 weight oil. I'd check to see if all pushrods and rockers are moving, you may have one that popped a lifter out.

I had a 318 that bent an intake pushrod and then the lifter popped out. Lost a lot of oil pressure but the engine still pulled to 5000 RPM. Yes it was a bit lazy but still stronger than a stock 318
 
You're coming to the same conclusion I am building my 64 Dart for. WE don't need race cars for cruising, just something that drives well and looks like we want to be seen in. Working on that plan we can afford to put miles on our babies.
Its nice to do a burnout for a few hundred feet...you know just to get the chics...:rofl:
 
For a couple years now, I have been deep into building an aluminum headed 360 for my Duster. Long story short after 5 minutes of cam break in there is a hole in the oil pan and undetermined damage in the crank case. Maybe I’ll figure it out this winter.

So, what do I do now? I can’t go all summer without my Duster! That is not an option for me. I had an old 78 318 sitting in the corner with no purpose in life. The old “Throw away 318”! I think it used to be good! Don’t really remember. It hadn’t been in a running vehicle forever! Hell let’s do it!

So, up on the engine stand she goes for a quick scrub up. I didn’t even paint it. It got a Summit K-6901 cam kit 218/228 @50, 441/441 lift on a 114 LSA. It got a Edelbrock Performer 318/360 intake because that’s what works with my AC compressor brackets. It got a Melling HV oil pump with matching distributor drive shaft and a new oil pickup and pan because I didn’t have any car stuff that wasn’t for a 360. Between what I had and what I bought I dropped about 500 bucks on the old “Throw away 318” just hoping for the best.

Well I put it together, dropped it into the car and man, I am super impressed with it for what it is! It doesn’t have great hot idling oil pressure but still has about 10lbs at 800 rpm (180* temp).

With the 4.10 rear gear and the 2.70 first gear in the A-500 it is a blast to drive around town It’s certainly better than the old wore out 360 with the wrong cam that that I had last year. I have been very nice to it so far, but It seems like it might run out of steam at RPMs over 5000. With the tiny valves that’s probably no surprise. I will drive it like it is for this year and maybe next year. Not sure on the fate of the whole 360 program now that this is so much fun and such a sweetheart to cruise. I will take it to the track and see what times it runs, and I am curious as to what kind of fuel economy it might get. It runs about 2100rpms at 65mph with the OD on. I picked up a NOS cheater plate and the parts to go with it a while back. Maybe I will try a 100 shot on this motor, Not sure yet!

I am very interested in what this engine might do with new rings and bearings, home head clean up and the ever-controversial swapping of the pistons side to side like Uncle Tony suggests. It would be a fun side by side comparison. I guess I’ll see how the motor works out in the long run. I have 800kms (500 miles) on it so far and things seem good. I did notice some oil by the breather on the drivers side valve cover, I hope there isn’t too much blow by pressuring up the crank case. I’m going to look into that tomorrow.

Cley
View attachment 1715752750
You didn't mention anything about where the hole is so I will say this, I ran into a project where I installed one of those HV pumps in a small block a long time back and there were clearance issues which made a small puncture point in the pan from one of the pump cover bolts. If I recall the sump was a center sump. I can't image an engine failing that fast after working on it but anything is possible. Also you didn't say anything about hearing bad sounds and knocking as would be a case if a rob bolt failed. I can only hope you have at least part of the engine to salvage and hopefully the cam is not trashed. On a note of fast failures, I did have a 65 396 Cheby that was supposed to be a rebuilt that another guy did the engine and sent it to the shop I was in, working on the frame and drive train. He failed to find and remove the 2 bolts for the choke cover inside the runner for #5 or 7 and the engine block was scrap iron within about that amount of time. Fortunately I was able to salvage most of the engine which I used for building a replacement. I found a 454 block that had been machined, used the 396 crank and 7 rods, replaced the one that bent, bought a set of KB 427 pistons, and was able to use the bearings aside from one pair of rod bearing halves. Had to source a new set of heads since the 396 heads were closed chamber which I would never use on a pump gas late model street engine. I did a lot of other stuff to this new engine to make it a much better build than the 65 396 but since this is a MOPAR site, Just keep your fingers crossed and hopefully you still have a 360 you can fix cheaply.
 
I'm sure I ran HV on mine without issue. has anyone starved the engine with a HV pump? like real stories?
My guess is the same guy with the 3/4 cam with port and polished double hump heads on his 4 bolt 350.
 
The problem with a HV pump is its sucking thru a 3/8" straw, then pushing thru a 7/16" straw. They always come with a High Pressure spring too.

This wastes a few horses just driving the pump.

In a 273 that had major copper showing on all bottom bearings, both Rods and Mains, we ran a HV Melling just to get the engine another 2,000 home. with straight 30 weight oil we had 60 PSI hot idle and 80+ PSI at 3500 RPM.
 
Not around here! 318s are everywhere 360s are difficult to come buy and 340s are extremely rare and expensive! I was fortunate enough to get two 360 blocks this year for spares. But had they been 318s id still bought them!

Well said bottom-line our beloved LA,s will never be made again thru Chrysler so lets try to enjoy them and preserve them for the next generation or guy needing one etc !
I Love the early 318s and currently have like 5 and a 360 plus I have sold at least 4 or 5 early 340s over the last 4 years bottom-line if at all possible lets save all we can and keep um from heading over to China for scrap metal , I wonder how many LA,s were produced over the years ?
 
For some guys, 318s are like slants, more are given away from sold for $$$!!!
For some of us, the older we get the more we appreciate every thing, slants, 318s, and another day on the Earth God gave us.
Yes, I also still appreciate a hot 383 and 4:10 gears!!
Amen we are blessed to live in the US and have all these toys at our disposal , think how hard it is for people across the pond to obtain what we simply stumble across at buddys house shows etc !!!
 
Summary for those that don't read or desire to comprehend??:
Some people have a 318 in hand and not a 340 or 360 and/$$ for such.
318s are proven good and durable engines, been that way for many decades.
The 318 can serve many purposes and can be made to make power to suit many needs.
End of :lol:summary.
Amen - its kinda like BRA sizes we all like what we like etc !!!
 
The problem 318 suffer from besides smaller displacement is intake lift, especially after emission regs hit. Ford and GM on their bread and butter engines did the same thing, intake lift short by 0.050". Ford 302, Chev 305 and Mopar 318. When Ford and Chev brought out their HO 302 and 305, they put 350 cams in.
I had a 1982 Blazer 2WD with 305 4 barrel and 700R4. 15MPG, low vaccum and it shift cycled in and out of OD. I bought an RV cam with 214/224 duration at .050 lift and .420 lift. Intake lift was about .070 more than stock. Al.ost totally eliminated the shift cycling and mileage improved to 19MPG. Everyone says the 305 Chev is a toilet engine also.
I purchased a 1976 [886] Power Wagon and after fixing all that Wasnt the problem [popping thru carb ] I found # 7 exh lobe wiped out so I purchased a Isky towing cam and installed a Dual port Offy intake and it really woke the little 318 up pulls very well now with a decent cam in it .
 
I think we got a little off track here. Something about a 360 throwing a rod and then building a workable 318. When you build a motor (any motor), you need a plan. without going into a plan book here, I just want to put my two cents on the above mention 318. I would not install a High Volume oil pump with a stock pan. You can run the pump dry and throw a rod. Sounds liken he is on the way of doing the same again. Truck and Van oil pans have the deep pans, which I use on my Van with the 70' 340, but they will not work on a stock A-Body without a little fabrication. Both the 318 and 340 have the short stroke, which would be best for stock car racing and 1/8 mile strip or even 1/4 mile with the right gear(back to the plan). The 360 with it's longer stroke can produce more torque and top end. Depending on its use, they are all great power plants, but need a good plan.
Run what you have or is available. All the small blocks are reliable if assembled correctly. Yes a 360 should make more torque but the right cam can equalize that. Now the old expression " there is no replacement for displacement" is correct, it just means torque is easier to come by. With the number of 318's built and installed in different models, they are vastly more available than 340s and 360s. If I had a numbers match car I would take it out to show and shines. If I wanted to track it, I would stroke a 318 and keep the original engine hidden in a back corner of the shop. If you blow the #'s match engine, you just lost a pile of happy cabbage. If you blow a stroked 318, cores are plentiful for next to nothing.
Nothing wrong with an inexpensive and strong running 318. The factory cam and heads were their biggest problems.
 
Amen - its kinda like BRA sizes we all like what we like etc !!!
C cups for me. Big enough to be noticeable, but not distracting.
A well built leaning tower of power in a fairly light early A body can be a formidable street package. Lots of torque off a street light. Uncle Tony's Miata project is a good example. Should be a bit of a street terror even with a fairly stock engine. A 210 in there with all the spare parts he has removed would be a weapon.
 
Uncle Tony's Miata is going to self destruct before it sees light of day in high gear...one thing for sure it wont be street legal,and these YT guys are gettting busted by the EPA I am starting to observe,and the problem is you cant have Uncle Tony and his following retro modding street cars back to 1966 emission standards it is illegal. It's cute to be an outlaw but these days no one can afford it...:)

now if he keeps t off road,(which he doesn't and you can see in his videos thats how they will get him.)
 
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Uncle Tony's Miata is going to self destruct before it sees light of day in high gear...one thing for sure it wont be street legal,and these YT guys are gettting busted by the EPA I am starting to observe,and the problem is you cant have Uncle Tony and his following retro modding street cars back to 1966 emission standards it is illegal. It's cute to be an outlaw but these days no one can afford it...:)

now if he keeps t off road,(which he doesn't and you can see in his videos thats how they will get him.)
Tony has stated he intends the Miata to be a slalom car. Now how he gets to the slalom event is the point you bring up. Now legality is an issue. Cars like that get driven on public roads very little, so emissions output is not much. Don't get me wrong, you crack the door open and all sorts of numbnutz will push it further to do daily drivers. Then there is the crowd that wants to crush every vehicle over 10 years old as a "gross polluter". The concept they get taken out toWednesday evening show and shines or weekend cruise for the fun of driving their carefully restored old car, does not generate a huge amount of pollution due to the low number of miles driven per year. Also when "cruising" the engines get well warmed up so operate at their best. People jumping in their new car to drive 5 blocks away for dinner at McD's or a sports bar polluts pretty much as much. A cold engine does not run clean. Also enthusiasts generally spend a lot of time keeping the tuneup in top condition, in contrast to Joe Public that is happy as a pig in mud as long as it starts.
Have you noted some of the new videos from UTG where they go over vehicles with a fine tooth comb to show up safety and quick fix ripoffs? Good plan Uncle Tony!
 
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