Trans and / or converter damaged?

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360duster

360duster

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Hi Guys, was at the drags this last weekend, only one bad run...something went south in the drivetrain. after burnout it felt a little rough....did not worry about it too much. When i returnd i noticed that it´s like if there´s no torque converter, engine is directly connected with the trans.....if you put it in gear engine dies - just like dumping a clutch in idle. Talked to some guys there, they told me sth. about the stator in the converter.....what do you think?

Now it´s time to upgrade....will check / rebuild the 727 too and put a Transgo Shiftkit in it.

Michael
 
Perhaps the bearing in the TC went out.....that'll send metal into the fluid and everywhere.
 
I know torqueflite's really good but I have never studied into torque converters enough to diagnose one but what your describing must be a converter issue because nothing in the trans. will cause this.
 
fishy68 said:
I know torqueflite's really good but I have never studied into torque converters enough to diagnose one but what your describing must be a converter issue because nothing in the trans. will cause this.
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That's what it is, as I have seen it a few different times.
Time for a new converter as well as fluid and cooler lines flush at the very least.
If it has chunks in the pan, then it's teardown for inspection and cleaning.
 
That´s what i think, too - converter is gone. Should have bought one that can keep up with the engine :D

I´ll cut it open to see what happened inside.....will share these pics, but it can take a while....

Thanks for your comments!

Michael
 
360duster said:
That´s what i think, too - converter is gone. Should have bought one that can keep up with the engine :D

I´ll cut it open to see what happened inside.....will share these pics, but it can take a while....

Thanks for your comments!

Michael
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Cool, looking forward to seeing it.
Jees, we must be the only kind of people that come running to see a trashed converter.:D
 
always good to see what failed and try to understand why.
 
Here we go, found the time to cut this pos open.....to me it seems that the retainer from the sprag and the impeller were welded to each other, caused the symptoms. Dont know how, but somehow the rollers from the sprag were pressed into these retainer plate, then the stator hub got in contact with the retainer plate and grooved it......there was some axial pressure and some friction, creating heat....... The retainer plate from the sprag has got a crack, don´t know if this was the first damage?

It seems that the internals are from a stock (dated 1980) converter, Fins must be modified by the supplier to get a little more stall speed, and of course it was painted red......:D.

Lessons learned: next time buy a quality converter, not the right place to cheap out.

In the Trans pan there was less debris than expected, i will open and check the whole trans together with a friend this thursday, will flush the cooler and the lines carefully.

Feel free to give some tips to a Trans Newbie ;)

Michael

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its hard to tell by the pics, but it doesnt look that bad. i mean it may be a little wore out, but its not blowen up. theres no mechanical connection between the motor and the tranny with a non lock-up convertor. its a fluid coupler. so unless the convertor was serously damaged and seized together, it wouldent cause your direct drive condition. the only time ive seen a convertor stall the motor, was on a c-6 where the installer put in a small high stall and had put the input shaft in backwards and the shaft bottomed out on the cover. time to go further and pull the tranny apart. iam sure on this site there are good pictures on what to do and look for during you build. and of course plenty of help when needed. good luck. no accually its take your time and have a good book!
 
In your first photo, it looks like the snap ring that holds the cap on top of the sprag isn't installed properly, unless the stator cap is pushing the snap ring out. Was there not a bearing or washer in there?
If I can, I'll head over to the converter shop I retired from and have a quick look at how the builder installs these items again.
 
BrianT said:
Was that a Hughes converter by any chance? I have been looking at converters and I know their's are painted red.
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Hi, it was one from company "TPI", but don´t get me wrong, i do not think it´s their fault. I got this one used.

Michael
 
zijmer said:
its hard to tell by the pics, but it doesnt look that bad. i mean it may be a little wore out, but its not blowen up. theres no mechanical connection between the motor and the tranny with a non lock-up convertor. its a fluid coupler. so unless the convertor was serously damaged and seized together, it wouldent cause your direct drive condition. the only time ive seen a convertor stall the motor, was on a c-6 where the installer put in a small high stall and had put the input shaft in backwards and the shaft bottomed out on the cover. time to go further and pull the tranny apart. iam sure on this site there are good pictures on what to do and look for during you build. and of course plenty of help when needed. good luck. no accually its take your time and have a good book!
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Hi, it really was mechanically connected, believe me. I also thought there must be serious damage inside the converter....did not expect this.

Michael
 
transman said:
In your first photo, it looks like the snap ring that holds the cap on top of the sprag isn't installed properly, unless the stator cap is pushing the snap ring out. Was there not a bearing or washer in there?
If I can, I'll head over to the converter shop I retired from and have a quick look at how the builder installs these items again.
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Hi, in this photo the snap ring is removed by me, wanted to look what´s there inside...;)

There was no washer or sth. in between the stator and the turbine. There is some kind of Thrust bearing on the other side of the stator, but it seems to be worn down. The Turbine spins smooth and freely on it´s bearing, i don´t think this is damaged.

Maybe your colleagues can tell if there´s sth. missing....and why. Thanks!

Michael
 
360duster said:
Hi, it was one from company "TPI", but don´t get me wrong, i do not think it´s their fault. I got this one used.

Michael
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yea, used high stalls are a gamble. when i come across one, i send it out and have it cut open. saved quite afew from turning into mush. whats it like for finding parts over there?
 
zijmer said:
whats it like for finding parts over there?
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Hi, used parts are often difficult to come by, nowadays a little easier due to the internet (ebay / forums etc.). I´m pretty happy that my Valiant is in really good condition. For new parts the US suppliers are very professional in handling the shipping etc., most time no problem but a little more expensive due to shipping / customs / tax.

Michael
 
Since good high stalls are built for someone elses application and not yours, they may or may not work properly with your car. Also, unless you know the owner of the converter, there is no way externally (other than the hub) that you know what condition it is in. USED CONVERTERS, stock or otherwise make good door stops.
Now, on your converter, I took a print of the photo of the sprag in the converter and took it over to the shop. The main man there said from the print, it look like the sprag slipped (rollers out of place), but he did say that it is difficult to know for sure, just looking at the print. Hope this helps.
 
Dear Graham,

thank you very much for your effort! Since the converter is crap now, i don´t worry about it anymore, just ordered a new one.

Got into the trans yesterday, under supervision of my friend cory (mean318 here on the board). The hard parts are all ok, clutches and bands show typical wear. We made a "wish list", now ordering the necessay parts. Hopefully parts show up soon, wanna race again first weekend in August....

Michael
 
transman said:
Since good high stalls are built for someone elses application and not yours, they may or may not work properly with your car. Also, unless you know the owner of the converter, there is no way externally (other than the hub) that you know what condition it is in. USED CONVERTERS, stock or otherwise make good door stops.
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Well said
 
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